God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday Higgs boson particle

reply to post by 0rbital


Because some idiot decided that, since the Higgs Boson was almost as easy to find as God, might as well make it a namesake.

Or some such nonsense.

reply to post by 0bserver1


Continuation, knowing your on the right path and not wasting time.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

I'm not even sure how to answer this. Your query as to which computer is ultimately more "real" is mildly interesting from a pure philosophy point-of-view, but has little or nothing to do with whether or not pure "science" is occulting the metaphysical reality proposed by the poster I originally answered.

I'm honestly not even trying to get into a pissing match here. I saw a thread on the LHC at CERN, and decided to read and post in it because theoretical physics and philosophy turn me on. I didn't realize we were going to go so far off tangent that the novel's of Frank Herbert would seriously be used as evidence against my assertion that this argument couldn't even have happened without 500 years of continuous incremental technological advances in communications and engineering.

When I return a few hours later, I am met by post after post related to god, the spiritual plane, and other metaphysical graffiti -- and none of it has anything at all to do with Bosson's, particle physics or CERN.

edit on 2-7-2012 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)

perhaps you should read some peter carroll then particularly CMT [Chaos Magical Theory]

i used the quotes from teh novel because they express the ideas conveyed in a clearer manner than i could at present
not as some sort of proof, just clarification.

not trying to get into a pissing match at all [was actually using your post as a foil and as a nod to the other 2]
so no need to get tangled up in a ontological straightjacket of your own devising

after all, ultimately, isn't the nature of reality and being what the scientists are investigating and we here on this thread
are discussing

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Yes, this is starting to sound like a religion. I read that quote you posted earlier that said that there should have been one Higgs Boson for every trillion Hadron Collisions in order for the theory to be true, but they didn't find it yet, after more than a trillion. It sounds like they have "faith" in this Higgs Boson despite the evidence.

reply to post by arpgme


If you see four dog bowls, and then find three dogs, along with the tracks of a fourth dog, but can't find the fourth dog, does that make the fourth dog a matter of faith? Or does it simply suggest you didn't look well enough?

Faith is only faith when there is no evidence of existence. They have evidence, they just haven't seen the actual prey yet. There is a difference.

reply to post by michaelbrux




Really? Do you even understand what is being discussed here? Weaponized? Controlled? I can't help but wonder what god particle forsaken cave you anti-everything types keep crawling out of... I know this is hard for some to understand but just because the physics are over most peoples heads (myself included quite often) doesn't mean it can be weaponized.



All kidding aside let's just keep our hats on until the press conference. Then we can talk. The standard model needs this... It's opponents are going to be sooooooooo unhappy... If it's true the plasma cosmologists are going to go into fits... Maybe Higgs will finally be justified.

Originally posted by magma
Even if we did understand the universe better because of this proven partical , all man will do is exploit it for personal gain, invoking more pain and suffering.

Man is destructive enough without the key to the secret.

Sorry but what does a human do that is not for personal gain? Infact you are living this life and just by living it you are seeking gain. Or are you living for others? Helping others? There in lies your selfishness as you are seeking happiness by helping others out.

Originally posted by Azdraik
You know I never quite understood the whole point to this.

Ok, so you found your particle. Its a nice ego stroke to know you were right and it exists.

That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?
Will this lead to further advancement of quantum theory?

ad infinitum

It may solve one of the most persistent problems in science/physics: what makes gravity work?

We've learned to truly utilize all of the other natural forces of the universe only by first understanding how they work. From the understanding of electromagnetism, we got everything from electric power generation to international communications. From the understanding of the nuclear forces, we got everything from nuclear power generation to nuclear weapons.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Because some idiot decided that, since the Higgs Boson was almost as easy to find as God, might as well make it a namesake.

Or some such nonsense.

It acquired the nickname "the God particle" because a well known researcher called it the "God-[expletive deleted] Particle" because it was so "god-[deleted]ed to find." Seriously.

reply to post by DJW001


I believe it. Like the Flash...you'd never believe it if you hadn't been sitting in a subway three seconds earlier, but now you're in a park. And dagnabbit, if he didn't take your burger too!

Originally posted by Evildead
Doesn't the existence of the Higgs-Boson particle prove the existence of other dimensions?

No.

Second line.

Originally posted by Azdraik
You know I never quite understood the whole point to this.

Ok, so you found your particle. Its a nice ego stroke to know you were right and it exists.

That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?
Will this lead to further advancement of quantum theory?

ad infinitum

I frankly don't believe you got so many stars for this post. I find it rather shallow.

If history is of any guidance, fundamental discoveries often lead to new applications, although this is not guaranteed by any means. One example is general relativity, in itself an incomplete and very difficult theory, which however produced predictions later verified in painstaking experiments. Without it, GPS woulnd't work at all. How's that for an "ego stroke"?

If confirmed, validation of the Higgs mechanism will mean that our understanding of some basic interactions, currently referred to as "Standard Model", becomes more complete and new guidance to further study may well ensue. I can't promise you a personal jet-pack in two weeks from now, but likewise, no one could predict the discovery of the laser, from just looking at basic quantum science.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Sometimes, evidence can be misleading, it can seem like one thing but really be another. If the particle was supposed to be found within 1 trillion collisions, and it wasn't, there is a bit of credibility lost to the theory. Maybe that "something" that is missing is not a Higgs Boson "Particle".

Maybe that fourth "dog" wasn't a dog at all...

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics
The tinfoiler in me wonders whether this is the discovery that will disprove religion?

Now that's out of my system, that;s great news and will hopefully assist us in taking leaps and bounds forward.

Why don't they have real physicists working on this instead of "theoretical physicists"? I'll ask the question at risk of sounding stupid, are they theoretical in terms of investigating as yet, theoretical aspects of physics or are they not actual physicists but theoretical physicists as in, lack professional credentials?

Great find OP

They are real physicists. There are theoretical physicists and applied physicists. The theoretical physicists think it up and the applied physicists build it. Kind of like an architect and a craftsman...sort of

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Sometimes, evidence can be misleading, it can seem like one thing but really be another. If the particle was supposed to be found within 1 trillion collisions, and it wasn't, there is a bit of credibility lost to the theory.

That theory is still in the process of being established, in case you didn't have a chance to notice. So there are still a few pieces of the puzzle to be shifted around. So it's premature to say that any credibility is lost.

Besides, what is intriguing to me is that (we expect) that both experiments, ATLAS and CMS, have likely found a comparable and coherent signature. Whether it's the Higgs or not, we'll see. But it seems likely that there is new physics discovered at CERN.

After several years testing, glad to know European scientists maybe successfully to recreate of chameleon light from the collision of protons in the Large Hadron Collider . It is the mass of the matter or the original matter of Universe. So, they called it God particle.

here is what i really want to know:

will the discovery of the HIGGS BOSON PARTICLE finally lead to the invention of a real HOVERBOARD?

reply to post by arpgme


The current standard for gauging the strength of the dataset underlying these announcements is 4.3 sigma, or roughly equivalent to a 99.996% chance that the Higgs "signal" is "real." The gold standard of particle physics is 100% or 5-sigma, and the physicists at CERN are working through the data towards achieving this goal, but there is currently a .004% chance the Higgs signal is "noise." These calculations come from countless CPU cycles in a a number crunching super-computer, and are based on a HUGE amount of raw data from the LHC itself.

Obviously, nothing under heaven or sky is certain with a 1 in 25,000 chance of failure, but I think we can both agree 1 in 25K is pretty long odd's?

reply to post by magma


your right, man will exploit it, just like they have done to our earth

by the way, did anyone else read the comments on the 2nd article the OP posted? maybe this will be the big 2012 event, if they find the so called god particle, then in a way, it proves god doesnt exist or any religion at all, so therefore that means no more religion? idk just a random thought, thanks for your opinions everyone!