A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Opinionatedb, RE "we can never blame evil actions on religion, the blame lies soley on the person doing the evil act. There is NOTHING in Islam to condone rape, not one thing... those were simply bad men...

In the Holy Quran it says we should say to the people, "To you be your religion and to me be mine" There is no forced conversion taught in Islam, there is nothing that says men no longer have their freewill....There are a few bad people, and you cannot judge us all by the few.

Syria is a wonderful example of a Muslim majority country that under the current regime enjoys complete religious freedom, and Muslims and Christians have lived side by side there for a very very long time."

I need a bit of help here. I haven't read the Koran and really have no wish to waste my time. (ok, here we go, I can see it already, people saying that ifI can't be bothered wasting my time with the koran, why waste my time here? Well, living in Australia and at this moment NOT having the country overrun by any type of extremists, I would like to keep it that way) But can you or someone else fill me in on a few things. Doesn't the Koran say that if the unbeliever won't accept islam then they should be taken out? (for want of a better term) and aren't there many references to how males should dominate women? I'm sure there are people on ATS who can put my ignorance either to rest or straighten out my clumsy attempt at wording this

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by ollncasino

 

But still, overall the following original sources are not good enough for you?

Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994
David Livingstone, Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, 1888
David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200,
William Carey Library, 2001
Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002

Certainly not.

Sowell is a well-known right-wing commentator and a former columnist for World Jewish Review. Clearly a biased source.

Livingstone was a religious fanatic.

edit on 30/6/12 by Astyanax because: I need a bath now.

I don't know why but I find that funny coming from some one who's defending Islam and Muslims

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital


The Inquisition was also an attempt to retake the Spainish Peninsular after Muslims had invaded it.

You seem to be confusing the Reconquista with the Inquisition. The Reconquista liberated Andalusia from the Moors, The inquisition had a bunch of Spanish Catholics killing off "not Catholics" to purify their religion. Victims included "witches", but was primarily aimed at Protestants. It was a lot like the current Sunni-Shia infighting, but among Christians instead of Muslims. Each faction was attempting to "cure" the heresy of the other by eliminating them from the planet, and make their version of Christianity the only "right" one.




.

Originally posted by steve1709

There is no forced conversion taught in Islam, there is nothing that says men no longer have their freewill...

That is true.

• In 628 Muhammad layed siege to the Jewish tribe in Khaibar with an army of 2,000. After the Jews surrendered Muhammad allowed the Jews to stay on in return for an annual tribute of half of their produce.

• In 630 Muhammad besieged Mecca with a force of 10,000 men. When Mecca surrendered with little resistance Muhammad didn't force the citizens to convert.

• In 630 Muhammad negotiated a treaty with the Christian Prince of Aylah - in return for tribute the people retained freedom to worship as Christians.

Muhammad set to mould. As long as you pay tribute to your Muslim overlords, Christians and Jews are allowed to remain Christian and Jewish.

The tribute could be heavy however. The Jewish tribe in Khaibar had to pay half of their annual produce as tribute to Muhammad.

and about JIHAD:
a rudimentary knowledge of islamic beliefs show that JIHAD means that a society has a right to defend itself. and even not a preemptive war. however the meaning of JIHAD is not limited to defensive war but this word means to try hard in any subject for example science, medicine, .... and it means that every attempt for humanity can be rewarded by God. so your life can itself be a JIHAD, an attempt that is rewarded by God.

but who and why is backing extremists (wahabies,saudy arabia(mother of al_qaeda) and who is using these terrorists in Syria.
who and why killed 3000 americans in 911.
I would say those that killed Rachel Aliene Corrie those who killed َamericans on Liberty navy to misuse this event.

reply to post by ollncasino


Oh really? A minority committing a majority of rapes in Australia? Somehow my math doesn't seem to add up. Just as African Americans are a minority in the U.S, but 2/3rds of all American prisons are full of them.

Originally posted by maes9
however the meaning of JIHAD is not limited to defensive war but this word means to try hard in any subject for example science, medicine, .... and it means that every attempt for humanity can be rewarded by God. so your life can itself be a JIHAD, an attempt that is rewarded by God.

That old chesnut.

97% of the references to jihad in the Koran are to violent jihad.

Here is an extensive list of the 164 Jihad passages in the Koran. As you can see, there are verses after verse extorting the Islamic faithful to spread Islam by the sword.

Answering Islam

All together, 31% of the Muslim trilogy (the Koran, Hadith and Sira) are devoted to violent Jihad.

Statistical Islam

Christians died at the hands of the Romans. Jews died at the hands of the Nazis. You get 'persecuted' for wearing a headscarf.

Sorry, the perspective is all wrong. You have no issues other than insecurity, and less than blacks, hispanics or democrats get depending where they live.

If as a Christian I went to Saudi Arabia I'd have 100% LESS freedom to practice my faith than you have in America.

So what is your beef again?

reply to post by ollncasino


well my friend this is the meaning of the word JIHAD and it is not important that how many references are there.
violent, well war is violent! when they wage war against you to kill you then you would say thank you!?

reply to post by ollncasino


You have commented on what Mohamid did or didn't do, but what about the Koran? Their rule book? Can someone enlighten me with reference to it please?

Originally posted by steve1709
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

There is NOTHING in Islam to condone rape, not one thing... those were simply bad men...

Fiddlesticks!

It is not understood that Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as "their women," the women who "belong" to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hands -- by demographic conquest rather than military conquest. It has worked in many parts of Africa; and if Muslims fail to reproduce even faster than they do, there is always the expedient of killing the remaining Infidels. Rape: Nothing to do with Islam?

The Rape Jihad
The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare.

The Rape Jihad

"This trend is not centrally planned, organized, and directed, but it is systematic nonetheless. It is part of the system called “Islam”, and it’s what a Western country can expect when it imports Muslims en masse. The systematic rape of infidel women is part of the process of Islamization."

The Religion of Rape

“Islam gives an open license to Muslim men to have sexual intercourse with women as long as these women are not Muslims and/or when these Muslim men are living in an infidel country.”

and in regards to paedophilia –This is what Imam Khomeini, the top shia authority says:

“A Muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990)

Sweden now has the highest rape statistics in Europe

Originally posted by pacifier2012

If as a Christian I went to Saudi Arabia I'd have 100% LESS freedom to practice my faith than you have in America.

So what is your beef again?

BAM! This. Best point brought up in this thread.Though after Saudi Arabia I'd add any middle eastern country to that list.

They've got no beef.They just like to make a big deal out of nothing.They're yelling HEY! Look at me so they're easy to see.

reply to post by Murgatroid


wow, that is really odd! the punishment of rape is nothing just death in islam. can you get it!?
marriage is holy in islam not like wrong catholic clerics to ban marriage and to rape children!

Originally posted by maes9
well my friend this is the meaning of the word JIHAD and it is not important that how many references are there.

violent, well war is violent! when they wage war against you to kill you then you would say thank you!?

Since 9/11 Jihadi Muslims have been forced to carry out terrorist attacks (in self defence) in

India
Sudan
Algeria
New York
Pakistan
Israel
Russia
Chechnya
Philippines
Indonesia
Nigeria
England
Thailand
Spain
Egypt
Bangladesh
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Morocco
Yemen
Arkansas
France
Uzbekistan
Gaza
Tunisia
Kosovo
Bosnia
Mauritania
Kenya
Eritrea
Syria
Somalia
California
Kuwait
Virginia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Jordan
United Arab Emirates
Louisiana
Texas
Tanzania
Illinois
Australia
Pennsylvania
Belgium
Denmark
East Timor
Qatar
Maryland
Tajikistan
Netherlands
Afghanistan
Chad
Canada
China
Nepal
Maldives
Argentina
Mali
Angola
Ukraine
Uganda
North Carolina
Germany
Arizona
Lebanon
Iran
Kazakhstan
Sweden
Azerbaijan
Iraq
Scotland
Macedonia

Link

I'm just glad that Islam is the religion of peace.

Image the length of that list if Islam allowed Muslims to be aggressive?

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Firstly that had nothing to do with me, that was the British who did that. And killing them? Do you even know how many Aborigines died in 150 years? Only 20 thousand which is hardly a genocide, in fact there are more Aborigines alive today then back then.

You should tell that to the Tasmanians. Oh, wait... you might have a little problem finding one to tell it to. Nevermind.

The extermination of 6 million Russians in 1916, now that was a genocide.

Izzat so? Which race of Russians was exterminated by which OTHER race of Russians?

Let me ask you a question.


DO YOU KNOW THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED EACH YEAR FROM MUSLIM TERRORIST ATTACKS THAN THE ENTIRE 300 YEAR INQUISITION COMBINED?

I'm going to need to see the stats on that to verify. Got a link to the numbers?

Originally posted by maes9
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

wow, that is really odd! the punishment of rape is nothing just death in islam. can you get it!?
marriage is holy in islam not like wrong catholic clerics to ban marriage and to rape children!

What on earth are you talking about? Marriage is holy in Islam? Really now?

You're suggesting catholics ban marriage and favor child molesting?Is that what you're saying?

So,I suppose it's okay if you blow yourself up for your religion?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by maes9
well my friend this is the meaning of the word JIHAD and it is not important that how many references are there.

violent, well war is violent! when they wage war against you to kill you then you would say thank you!?

Since 9/11 Jihadi Muslims have been forced to carry out terrorist attacks (in self defence) in

India
Sudan
Algeria
New York
Pakistan
Israel
Russia
Chechnya
Philippines
Indonesia
Nigeria
England
Thailand
Spain
Egypt
Bangladesh
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Morocco
Yemen
Arkansas
France
Uzbekistan
Gaza
Tunisia
Kosovo
Bosnia
Mauritania
Kenya
Eritrea
Syria
Somalia
California
Kuwait
Virginia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Jordan
United Arab Emirates
Louisiana
Texas
Tanzania
Illinois
Australia
Pennsylvania
Belgium
Denmark
East Timor
Qatar
Maryland
Tajikistan
Netherlands
Afghanistan
Chad
Canada
China
Nepal
Maldives
Argentina
Mali
Angola
Ukraine
Uganda
North Carolina
Germany
Arizona
Lebanon
Iran
Kazakhstan
Sweden
Azerbaijan
Iraq
Scotland
Macedonia

Link

I'm just glad that Islam is the religion of peace.

Image the length of that list if Islam allowed Muslims to be aggressive?

what are you saying man!
I am from Iran. what I see is western backed terrorism and some of them by the hands of radicals that are all allies of USA they do not miss a minute to kill us.
moreover JIHAD in it's meaning of war is only related to a country under it's leadership not that individuals do suicide bombing everywhere!
do'nt you think that 911 and the hidden policies behind it can be the cause of such violence?
do know TIM OSMAN?

reply to post by nightstalker78


you know what I mean well.
they do rape children in their churches.

reply to post by maes9




Sorry for the one liner,but this guy is making me laugh.

Originally posted by maes9
reply to post by nightstalker78

 

you know what I mean well.
they do rape children in their churches.

Perhaps..but do they not rape where you're from?

You know,Iran.