3 Fully Loaded F22's heading out

done

Enough folks.

Stick to the subject and quit discussing each other.

LOL (lots of laughs)

For those who still don't get what I saw, its posted plain as day. I have many family and friends in the military and even more vets. Some regular infantry, some Spec Ops. I have been on many bases, and have even had a Military ID card for some time due to my lengthy stay at one point..


I know enough about the F22 to know you guys are right talking about internal storage.. But at the same time, I know what a freaking F22 looks like.. and I know what I saw. The ONLY thing I can think of, is maybe the bay doors were open. But these were protruding, as if maybe when the doors open these things slide down and into place?? That I don't know.. But again.. I know what I saw, take it or leave it.

As for posting things that shouldn't be posted.. That's ridiculous. All.. or Most of us here on the site that are US citizens know we are in the worst times ever seen on this planet. Keeping tabs on our military to make sure we don't have a tyrannical leader is a pretty top concern for me. Not to mention this Russia business in or around Alaska. Didn't see that on the news, or even any of my alternative news sites..

reply to post by SickeningTruths


I'm not sure about other weapons, but the AMRAAM is carried on an AVEL rack that moves 9 inches, and uses the hydraulic system of the aircraft to eject the weapon clear of the bays. The F-117 and B-2 both have moveable racks to drop the weapons clear of the bays, so that when they are dropped they won't impact the aircraft. I would assume that the F-22 has a similar system, but I'll have to look into that later.

I think this is where they were headed. See no military secrets were harmed in the making of this thread.
Russia and America in HawaiiRussia and America in Hawaii

Originally posted by Dizrael

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Dizrael

 

At one point in time we had an industry insider on here, that posted a lot more than "I saw three F-22s take off today fully loaded" or anything else that has been in this thread. She NEVER came close to violating OPSEC, or anywhere NEAR violating any regulations. She even had security people check her posts to ensure it was ok to talk about.

Everything in this thread is pure speculation, plain and simple, with the exception of three F-22s took off somewhere in the North West part of the US, and there were some Apache helicopters loaded with missiles on a base somewhere. Oh, and some details about the F-22 that are open source material.

this has gotten dumb, im not going to sit here and argue over whether or not they were saying too much, they were (my opinion), you think they didnt, that about sums it up, im done on that topic.

That's because you're wrong.

There has been plenty of information, much more sensitive than what was posted here available to people who know where to look on the web.

To call this an opsec breach is a bit far out there.

Originally posted by Ladysophiaofsandoz
I think this is where they were headed. See no military secrets were harmed in the making of this thread.
Russia and America in HawaiiRussia and America in Hawaii

Very well could be, but they were headed NW so the Alaska thing sounds more like it.. but who knows..

Originally posted by Dachende

Originally posted by Dizrael

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Dizrael

 

At one point in time we had an industry insider on here, that posted a lot more than "I saw three F-22s take off today fully loaded" or anything else that has been in this thread. She NEVER came close to violating OPSEC, or anywhere NEAR violating any regulations. She even had security people check her posts to ensure it was ok to talk about.

Everything in this thread is pure speculation, plain and simple, with the exception of three F-22s took off somewhere in the North West part of the US, and there were some Apache helicopters loaded with missiles on a base somewhere. Oh, and some details about the F-22 that are open source material.

this has gotten dumb, im not going to sit here and argue over whether or not they were saying too much, they were (my opinion), you think they didnt, that about sums it up, im done on that topic.

That's because you're wrong.

There has been plenty of information, much more sensitive than what was posted here available to people who know where to look on the web.

To call this an opsec breach is a bit far out there.

edit on 3/7/2012 by Dachende because: (no reason given)

Ok, I'm going to lay out some things real quick about OPSEC and UNCLASSIFIED information:

Regardless of being unclassified information or not; a military member does NOT have the right to decide if the information should be made to the public. He or she should find that information on open source (the internet or media) before they may talk about it. Unclassified information can still be sensitive information and should be regarded as such. There is information that can be derived from unclassified material that can lead to classified material.

It's pretty obvious that some people here are wrench turners on military bases. They do not receive information outside of what they need to do their job. This is why some things look crazy to them, and then they come and post them here. You all get interested and a select few jump to conclusions.

A lot of the time, the military will arm weapons, fly them places, fire them, and / or a combination of any of that, just to prove that we can. We know other countries are watching.

Hopefully this clears up a few things. Just be careful not to make any assumptions on classification in the future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Raptors will be squawking any time they are flying CONUS. In that case, literally thousands of people would see them anyway.

Of course, a majority of those thousands would not be able to associate them to a certain IFF code. Actually, none of them would except AF controllers.

Apart from saying 1) numbers and 2) load-out, saying you saw Raptors over a place where one usually sees them does not constitute an OPSEC violation. Details, however, are bad juju.

reply to post by qalameid


The IFF code is assigned by controllers before departing. They are controlled by civilian controllers, with the exception of flying into a military base (with a couple of exceptions where the base is shared with an airport). You can actually track flights, including the occasional military flight with websites like Flighaware.com. It's not often that a military flight will show up, but every once in awhile one with an ADS-B will show up.

I'm not an Expert or Specialist in any aircraft related industries, this is just my $0.02.
I have worked for and with the US Military, I've held an NDA-Confidental Clearance Waiver and have participated in certain job related Anti-Terrorism and OPSEC/PERSEC training courses.

In regards to OP's sighting, the description sounds indefinitely like fuel pods on the hardpoints.


As far as speculation and sharing of Open Source information being a violation of OPSEC...hardly.


With the F-22's flying low and slow enough for an untrained ground spotter to determine not only the aircraft type, but what was being carried on the hardpoints as "torpedo" looking rather than just dark blobs is a testament that it was routine.

Running with an external load, the F-22's would have a much larger radar cross-section, thus showing up on other aircraft radar and civilian ATC. I would also assume the military would have the F-22 operating in an SUA if it wasn't going to show up on radar to prevent any mid-air collisions.

Chance are with the altitude they were operating at (based upon OP's description) a NOTAMs would have been issued.

Even if OP hadn't posted and no one here spoke a word of the 3 F-22's, it's not hard to use certain websites to determine military flights in certain areas.

(That I will not go into detail about because it certainly could be an OPSEC violation or could cause security related issues)

As far as information from ATS giving an enemy any form of upperhand, that's a bit much.
All the specs in the F-22 a Open Source, Public information. Information on overflights of someone's home or commute route is not only dated, but most likely routine in nature.

Even if in some bizarre twist an enemy managed to somehow obtain sensitive information involving aircraft from ATS, the information being shared certainly wouldn't be overly sensitive. It's not as if someone is naming names or tossing around future deployment dates.

The absolute worst that could happen if any sensitive information was leaked via ATS would be an aggressor obtaining information that could aid in defeating the F-22 or assisting in the development of a counter-part.
Since the information being shared in not only speculative, but also publicly available I wouldn't say it's violating OPSEC.

I'd be more worried about the software aspect of the aircraft. You have to not only assume, but would almost certainly expect China, Russia, ect... constantly be bucking at our cyber security to get intel on not only the F-22, but anything defense related.

The best a Foreign Aggressor or Terror Cell could how to obtain from ATS is to garner an idea of how little we know in terms of secrets and sensitive information.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Hmm I guess that makes sense for aircraft flying cross-country, or at least from base to base. Seeing as how they are continually handed off to different entities, do all of the controllers along the flight path get a IFF/SIF plan that includes the Raptors? Or would they just check in and state their request?

reply to post by qalameid


It depends on what kind of flight plan they were on. If it's an instrument flight plan then there is a strip that is printed at each Center along their route that has the aircraft type, number of aircraft, IFF codes, etc. That way it stays the same along the route as much as possible. If it's a VFR flight plan, then they're not required to file a plan, so they can just go from controller to controller, and give each controller any requests they have. They're almost always going to be flying IFR, except when they're in exercise airspace, or military owned airspace doing their thing.