Healthcare Ruling: Individual Mandate Ruled CONSTITUTIONAL, entire law upheld.

Originally posted by artnut
Perhaps we should organize a citizen's protest march on the Whitehouse to oppose this bill. If you can't go to Washington, go to your local courthouse,etc., make all of the protests happen on the same day across the US. Maybe instead of arguing here, we make our position known, very loudly, that we don't want this stinking bill. Let them know what we think with peaceful protest. Country is in an uproar over this, a lot of people are extremely pi**ed off about this.

How about it, where do we start?

People did that when the bill was being debated.

People also rallied to support it.

It has always been roughly 50/50 for those who supported/opposed. Recently that opposed percent has gone up due to Republican propaganda about the mandate being Unconstitutional. Well the SCOTUS decided that for them...so I suspect the percent of those that oppose this will go down.

And yes...there are people extremely mad about this...and there are also people that are extremely happy about this.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by artnut
Perhaps we should organize a citizen's protest march on the Whitehouse to oppose this bill. If you can't go to Washington, go to your local courthouse,etc., make all of the protests happen on the same day across the US. Maybe instead of arguing here, we make our position known, very loudly, that we don't want this stinking bill. Let them know what we think with peaceful protest. Country is in an uproar over this, a lot of people are extremely pi**ed off about this.

How about it, where do we start?

People did that when the bill was being debated.

People also rallied to support it.

It has always been roughly 50/50 for those who supported/opposed. Recently that opposed percent has gone up due to Republican propaganda about the mandate being Unconstitutional. Well the SCOTUS decided that for them...so I suspect the percent of those that oppose this will go down.

And yes...there are people extremely mad about this...and there are also people that are extremely happy about this.

I am not so sure you are right about the percentage going down. I am sure there were a lot of people that did not understand enough about it to be upset, or did not know if it would pass. Whatever the reason, I am all about helping those people wake up. The 50/50 number is different than the one that I found.

reply to post by beezzer

Please show some proof of this lowering of cost that you speak of.

YEAH!
Even the Act's proponents cite how much it is going to cost us.

A responsible plan would save money.

reply to post by beezzer



There are many calculators that you can use.

www.washingtonpost.com...

At the very least, the medicaid expansion will help a lot of people.

reply to post by artnut

I have a right to my social security, I paid into it. Most people who recieve social security now did not pay a dime into it. Of course from what I understand, I will probably never see it because of when I will retire it won't be solvent. So I have made other plans. But of course I would like to see something I paid for.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

You are against Social Security for others...but they better keep their damn hands off of YOURS.

Eventually...this will be how it is with the Health Care Law. People are going to use every benefit they can from it...they will scream loudly if anyone tries to take those away from them...but they are going to complain about others using the benefits and not paying enough for it.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Oh, I don.t know. Maybe to be informed about an issue you are offering your opinion on?

Don't give me that condescending attitude though please. I don't take kindly toward it.
Especially when I was asking a question, and making a point.

You better watch out because although I am not perfect, I can and will surprise.
Every once in awhile at least.

And to come at me all condescending because I don't spend all day and night reading a massive hunk of corrupt legislation and know every detail about it? You don't even know half of it, nor does any human being on Earth. No Congressman or lobbyist even knows half of these stipulations.

Cite line 12, page 63 to me without looking. You can't.
Be careful who you insult.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by artnut

 

I have a right to my social security, I paid into it. Most people who recieve social security now did not pay a dime into it. Of course from what I understand, I will probably never see it because of when I will retire it won't be solvent. So I have made other plans. But of course I would like to see something I paid for.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

You are against Social Security for others...but they better keep their damn hands off of YOURS.

Eventually...this will be how it is with the Health Care Law. People are going to use every benefit they can from it...they will scream loudly if anyone tries to take those away from them...but they are going to complain about others using the benefits and not paying enough for it.

Not me.

I will refuse benefits unless I am about to die and there is no other way to save me but through surgery.

There is no point in using something I don't need simply because it's free. Wastefulness is reprehensible.

This system is not set up for folks like myself. It is set up for selfish wasteful people to abuse.

But then again, if people were reasonable and sane, you wouldn't NEED a health care insurance system to begin with in the first place.

Welcome to your new high deductible plans. That's what you are going to get with this new law. I tried warning everyone what you are going to get, so here you go. This is what they will offer to 80% of these new required insurers. Since you can't afford the normal insurance they will give you this and they can force you now because its mandated.

Blue Cross Blue Shield High Deductible

Originally posted by jam321
Personally, I am going to wait for this to play out. Like any bill, there are probably some good things and bad things. Once I actually see the bad things then I will lobby to get those part changed. As of this moment I am seeing too many rumors and conflicting scenarios.

Well said, Semper Fi!
I am with you - let's give this a chance to work and then fix what doesn't. If its really that bad, we'll know in a couple of years or so and we can deal with it then. That's what a democracy does!

peace,
AB

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by artnut

 

I have a right to my social security, I paid into it. Most people who recieve social security now did not pay a dime into it. Of course from what I understand, I will probably never see it because of when I will retire it won't be solvent. So I have made other plans. But of course I would like to see something I paid for.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

You are against Social Security for others...but they better keep their damn hands off of YOURS.

Eventually...this will be how it is with the Health Care Law. People are going to use every benefit they can from it...they will scream loudly if anyone tries to take those away from them...but they are going to complain about others using the benefits and not paying enough for it.

I did not illustrate anything. I would like the government to allow me to invest in a retirement benefit that I want, with my money. Again, I have not choice with a certain portion of my income, they take it from me. When I invest in a product, I have the right to stop investing in a product that is not producing. Social Security does not appear solvent, yet again, the government gives me no choice.

I am against social security for people who do not pay into it, period. None of the funds should have ever been used to aid people with disabilities out of social security.

I have tried to tell you, health insurance already went up in anticipation of this stupid bill. It happened in my husband's company this January. I know of other companies following suit. Small business owners will have to fire, or not hire. Not all, but if you think this is not costing people more money, I don't know what to tell you.

Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
Welcome to your new high deductible plans. That's what you are going to get with this new law. I tried warning everyone what you are going to get, so here you go. This is what they will offer to 80% of these new required insurers. Since you can't afford the normal insurance they will give you this and they can force you now because its mandated.

Blue Cross Blue Shield High Deductible

This is a good point.

I wonder what happens when somebody can't make the co-payments and / or deductibles ?????

Who pays ??

Or is an "office visit" simply denied and a new appointment is given ?

Here are my two cents, from my personal history:

There are people (like myself) who already appreciate the ability for parents to keep their kids on their insurance until age 26, also the inability of insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions (having had cancer and having been denied insurance outright for 10 years, I am very happy with this feature, as well as having a child with a congenital issue which would have made it impossible for him to obtain health insurance without this legislation).

I worked in an insurance company as one of my first jobs (in a secretarial position) and I can tell you out right - they do not care about you, they care about making money with their "products." Having typed denial letters to individuals seeking insurance payouts that broke my heart, I realized the game quickly. (The most famous one in our office was someone had lost three fingers in an industrial accident, but they couldn't get disability payments because they hadn't lost four per the fine print on their policy...)

Personally, I think it is a huge step forward from the insurance practices that have massively (and negatively) effected my life, and would have effected my child's life in the future, perhaps even preventing him from care that could save his life. We currently live very simply and pay nearly a quarter of our income in health care costs and insurance premiums because with our history, we simply cannot be without it!! My entire take-home pay from my part-time job and freelance work is not enough to meet even our premiums.

The insurance companies have been putting us in thumb-screws for decades, making enormous profits off our backs and contributing to greater health care costs. Yes, that is true - for a physician to take insurance, they have to put out a lot of money towards employees to process the insurance, and fees for out-of-pocket consumers get driven up because the insurance companies insist on getting better 'deals' for their own payouts to doctors (for the privilege of being in their plan), thus making physicians charge more across the board in order to get paid and pay for their employees.

It was an unfair system. Is that what we want? Back to business as usual? No bill is going to be perfect - and this one isn't - but if you ask Mitt Romney's home state if they like Romneycare - 2/3rds of the people there are really happy with it! Yes, Romneycare really is basically the same thing as the National plan.

Seriously, this will and already has made things better, not just for my family but for millions of Americans. AND if we get to the 2014 full-implementation of this legislation and find it isn't working, then fine, rework it, fix it, trash it, whatever, but until then do not ask me to go back to the way it was...

peace,
AB

reply to post by muzzleflash

I will refuse benefits unless I am about to die and there is no other way to save me but through surgery.

There is no point in using something I don't need simply because it's free. Wastefulness is reprehensible.

This system is not set up for folks like myself. It is set up for selfish wasteful people to abuse.

What you don't understand is that is people like yourself that has caused a large part of the healthcare problem.

You wait until something happens...and then you have no way to pay for it...the burden falls to the rest of us.

It's not selfish to be responsible for yourself so others don't have to be effected by your inaction.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by beezzer

 

The whole idea of personal responsibility and taking care of things myself was just too much.

If people were already responsible...there would be no need for a bill like this. And for some people...they would love to be responsible, but it cost to much for them to be responsible.


The one thing I don't see any of the opponents of this bill arguing against is that the bill will decrease health insurance costs that will make it affordable for everyone to get insurance. They are just mad that everyone has to participate.


There is a connection there....I think people will slowly figure out that connection over time.

Ok, so you agree with EVERYTHING in this bill
that you know of?? Honestly can say this is the PERFECT
bill for America...??

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I will refuse benefits unless I am about to die and there is no other way to save me but through surgery.

There is no point in using something I don't need simply because it's free. Wastefulness is reprehensible.

This system is not set up for folks like myself. It is set up for selfish wasteful people to abuse.

What you don't understand is that is people like yourself that has caused a large part of the healthcare problem.

You wait until something happens...and then you have no way to pay for it...the burden falls to the rest of us.

It's not selfish to be responsible for yourself so others don't have to be effected by your inaction.

What do you mean wait for something to happen?

Should I go get hit by a bus right now?

Oh because I am not stabbing myself with a knife, I am a burden on the healthcare system?

BECAUSE I NEVER USE IT?

Yeah, those 100% healthy people, they are the real burden.

Your not even being reasonable anymore OKS, please come back to reality.

reply to post by mrballistic

Ok, so you agree with EVERYTHING in this bill
that you know of?? Honestly can say this is the PERFECT
bill for America...??

I doubt there is any bill that I 100% agree with. And I would never say any bill is "perfect".

It's a good step forward...more than any other President has done with healthcare.

You heard it right here folks.

Because I am 100% healthy and do not use the healthcare system barely ever at all, I am the burden.

I am the one that's the problem with this system right?

I mean that lady I knew who had teeth that were just fine, and got here entire mouth of teeth removed just to get dentures at age 30...she isn't a burden on the system.
That 22,000 $ operation was well deserved and needed because COSMETICS are real healthcare you know!

But oh me who refuses to get in on the wastefulness spree, I am the problem.

Fact is, if other's were like me and refused unnecessary care, our overall costs would decrease by a factor of 100.
If not more.

That's simple math.

You spend more money = more $
You spend less money = less $

reply to post by muzzleflash


No one is 100% healthy...and no one knows what will happen to them tomorrow.

If something would happen to someone who has your philosophy of "I'm healthy, I don't need insurance", then the burden is put on everyone else because of them not having insurance.

This is a huge part of the problem that this bill is trying to correct.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Unless you are a goddamn "U.S. citizen" it DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are American nationals. What part do you NOT get, the U.S. is a corporation..................see link.......

realitybloger.wordpress.com...

SO.........unless you are an "employee" of the U.S. corporation, and you do this by admitting repeatedly that you "reside" IN the U.S. instead of being an inhabitant of a "state" republic and the Nation as a whole, it does not apply to you and me.

MAN EXISTED LONG ANTECEDENT TO THE CREATION OF GOVERNMENT!!!! The THING, i.e. "government", that Man creates CAN NEVER have jurisdiction or authority over the Man that created it.

Understand THAT, do not stand under that, but comprehend it!!!!!!!!!!

You people REALLY need to wake the f_ck up and get a clue!!!