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Originally posted by EvanB
Jesus said "MY Kingdom is not of THIS world"...
And if no servant is greater than his Master then Christians have no claim to anything in THIS world.. We are merely diplomats in a strange land...
None of those are Christian teachings, nor are they the tendencies of those I know. I'm sure it happens it individuals "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." But Christianity condemns those things, and people with those feelings are urged to correct them.
Then why do so many of you care about being in control and crushing the Muslims? Why hate the gays? Why be racist?
I'm sorry if I've created that impression. I have no idea about my intellect, and certainly it only counts as a tool. Can we use it to help others is the more important question. The evidence I've seen has peruaded me that my faith is right, otherwise why would I have it? People don't retain beliefs that they think are wrong, certainly. I'm sure you think you are right, too.
Seems to me that you want everyone here to bow to your superior intellect because you think you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Some Christians do expect to go to Heaven, the rest don't expect it but hope for it. As for chariots and mansions? I don't think so, those are lyrical images, symbols designed to express the inexpressible.
Afterward you expect to go straight to heaven where your golden chariot awaits to bring you to your huge mansion made especially for you.
No, that's not what the Bible says to do. We are instructed to love our neighbor, which means, in general, that we are to try for the very best for others. It may include feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned, or other acts designed to lighten the burdens that we all have to carry.
How about just giving up everything in THIS WORLD and waiting for the next one to be happy? Isn't that what the Bible says to do?
Text
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.
Congressional sessions open with the recital of the Pledge, as do government meetings at local levels, and meetings held by many private organizations. It is also commonly recited in school at the beginning of every school day, although the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that students cannot be compelled to recite the Pledge, or punished for not doing so.
According to the United States Flag Code, the Pledge of Allegiance reads:[2]
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
According to the Flag Code, the Pledge "should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."[2]
One of the many attacks on our country from the Religious Right is the claim that our country is a Christian Nation...not just that the majority of people are Christians, but that the country itself was founded by Christians, for Christians. However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. Those people who spread this lie are known as Christian Revisionists.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.
I'm not forgetting the Treaty of Tripoli, or the Constitution's lack of specific mention. What I was doing was looking through ATS to find what evidence I could opposed to the "Christian Nation" idea. That was all I could find. Is there anything else?
A pleasure to see you again, and thank you for talking about the historical documents that have been mentioned in various threads over time. You caused me to explore, a very good thing.
In the threads I looked through I found five documents or categories of documents: The letters and writings of Jefferson, Paine, and Adams, The Treaty of Tripoli, and the Constitution's failure to mention "Christianity." Should I have found more? I only looked through about 8-10 threads.
Oh, I didn't consider documents from about 1900 on.
how about you look for evidence that the USA was founded as a xian nation instead?
You will find plenty of evidence that eh various founders had some sort of religious belief - but of course that is not the same as founding the USA as a xian nation.
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Dear Aloysius the Gaul,
how about you look for evidence that the USA was founded as a xian nation instead?
I'm sure you remember that I posted a number of interesting documents on page 5 of this thread, you commented freely on them. And I seriously looked through past threads to find opposing evidence.
You will find plenty of evidence that eh various founders had some sort of religious belief - but of course that is not the same as founding the USA as a xian nation.
May I suggest that the problem may be that we are arguing about two different things? I think the problem may be that we don't have a clear understanding of the phrase "Christian nation." (Or, "xian nation" as you seem to prefer.)
Nobody has ever argued that the Christian Church is the ultimate political authority of the US. What do you mean by "Christian nation?" Maybe we agree with each other.
With respect,
Charles1952
Text
"In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.[1][2]
In God we trust has appeared sporadically on U.S. coins since 1864[3] and on paper currency since 1957.[4]
It is also the motto of the U.S. state of Florida. Its Spanish equivalent, En Dios Confiamos, is the motto of the Republic of Nicaragua
The phrase appears to have originated in the Star-Spangled Banner, written during the War of 1812. The fourth stanza includes the phrase, "And this be our motto: 'In God is our Trust
Aspirations for the motto arose surrounding the turmoil and heightened religious sentiment that existed during the Civil War. The Reverend M. R. Watkinson, as part of a campaign initiated by eleven northern Protestant Christian denominations in a letter dated November 13, 1861, petitioned the Treasury Department to add a statement recognising "Almighty God in some form in our coins."[6] At least part of the motivation was to declare that God was on the Union side of the Civil War.[7] According to Brian Burrell, the actual wording of the motto was inspired by a Union Civil War unit's company motto
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by redneck13
Which god do we trust in?
My definition of a christian nation is one that has something uniquely christian about it - the easiest measure would be that it promotes, supports and encourages christianity and no other religions.
Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obiedience.
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by JohnPhoenix
I found the Mayflower Compact, a part of it reproduced here. It seems as though Christianity was indeed a driving force behind the earliest colonization. Was there money involved? Ok, I'll buy that. But to say Christianity wasn't, seems to be a large error.
Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obiedience.
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Dear Aloysius the Gaul,
My definition of a christian nation is one that has something uniquely christian about it - the easiest measure would be that it promotes, supports and encourages christianity and no other religions.
Thanks, that clears things up in a way. What do we do if the people of the nation promote, support, and encourage Christianity? Is that a Christian nation? Or are we looking only at our laws?
If it's laws only then I agree with your position.