It's About Time. Germany Rules Religious Circumcision on Boys is Assault

reply to post by luciddream


I agree again. As I stated previously, I never really gave it much thought until the last few years, as I have been indoctrinated like so many others. Once the reality of the act became apparent to me, it is like a light went on - so many here on ATS are true thinkers and hold much of the information we are presented with in life is for a reason other than stated - and mostly they are right. This is one of the more difficult subjects to dicuss because it is so ingrained we dare not question it. As they say, once you see the light...

CJ

Originally posted by Crakeur
does this mean they will now outlaw ear piercings for minors?
mole removals that are purely cosmetic?
hemangioma removals for cosmetic purposes as well?

these are all things done for appearance that can have side effects or ailments as a result of error on the dr or piercer.

at least, with the circumcision, their's a faith based explanation behind it, not just vanity.

Congratulations Germany, you've just set yourself back 70 or so years by implementing a law that could, easily, have been avoided by implementing more safe guards and stricter guidelines.

I'm all for this law, provided we can now force parents to give their kids normal haircuts instead of those moronic mohawks on 3 year olds. The child has no control over this and, let's be honest, you are totally damaging the kid's mental state by forcing him to walk around with that stupid hair cut and, in some cases, awful clothing.

Wow, first good post after 4 pages... this is exactly how I feel. History has shown that laws forbidding things never serve justice or the people.

Same ugly trend which is going on with "animal rights" is now transferring to "human rights". Soon, walking your child without a helmet will be forbidden by law.

i completely agree with this, its a shame other countries dont follow their lead. female circumsition (the removal of the labia and the clitorous) has been made illegal in most countries and it is a religous practice in many places in africa......

i think religous rights are riduculous anyway.
why should someone get away with mutilating a child on religous grounds, if i got my 2 year old a nose job id be put in prison.
why should someone be able to hide their identity (under a burka) because of thier of religion, if i go into my local shoping centre wearing a hoody i get followed by security, but a women hiding all but her eyes is ok.
why would a doctor have to refuse a child a blood transfusion that could save their life simply because its against the parents religion (jahovahs witness').

religous rights have no place in a civilised world

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by luciddream
Currently in this thread the argument boils down to these..


- Religious/Right to perform the rituals..

- Politics, Germany "trying to get rid of everything jew"

- Health - is circumcision necessary?

- Cosmetics - Looks..?

- Tradition(non religious) - dad's dad have it, dad have it, so its okay and normal for me to have it

- Ethics - is it okay to do this? with no proven benefit? on a child?

- Peer pressure - Girlfriends, social normal in the current country...


Of course, everyone has a reason to do it, or need to reason to tell themselves that what was done to them was reasonable.

edit on 6/28/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

this post is not directed AT you, and im not mad AT you.
ok?

honestly, im so mad, they can all go to %$^&! with their reasons for why and why not.

they do NOT have the right to cut a babies PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

im so mad that they cut me, THAT WAS A PART OF ME!!! i never said it was ok!

i would have been even angrier if they had "convinced me" at the age of 10 or something, and tricked me into getting it done.

ITS NOT RIGHT.

they should make you wait until your 18-20 and then NOBODY should pressure anybody into doing it in any way.

if you want it done, you should go and do it because YOU want to.

i would have NEVER done this. i want my tiny piece of skin back so bad. i feel like i never even had a chance.
peace.

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

Your ranting on like a screaming little child when you dont even know the physical difference between having and not having a foreskin! That would be like me saying i miss my penis.

OH GOSH I MISS MY PENIS!

edit on 28-6-2012 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)

are you saying that your a girl?


no offence but you wouldn't understand.



how would you feel if someone snipped the tips of your nipples off?


its basically the same thing, (no offence in ANY WAY) i just heard that girls have more sensitive nipples, and i figured it would be a good analogy....






peace.

reply to post by Crakeur


How is this law affecting the number of mulisms in the UK?

In the UK, the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985 outlawed the procedure in Britain itself, and the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 and Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation (Scotland) Act 2005 made it an offence for FGM to be performed anywhere in the world on British citizens or permanent residents

Seems like it isn't forcing anyone out. You realize it is against the law here in the US, yes? Are we now Nazi's?

It is outlawed in New Zealand[75] and in all Australian states and territories, and is a crime under section 268 of the Criminal Code of Canada.[76] It became illegal in the United States on 30 March 1997,

Female circumcision against the law

CJ

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

I rather trust what nature gave me then some man made religious/cosmetic upgrade(rather deduction lol), There is no proven fact that circumcision is beneficiary, all i see is that removing a layer of protection. The "forsaken foreskin" have soo many sensitive nerves that is visible, sadly, those who never had it will never see it.

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by luciddream
Currently in this thread the argument boils down to these..


- Religious/Right to perform the rituals..

- Politics, Germany "trying to get rid of everything jew"

- Health - is circumcision necessary?

- Cosmetics - Looks..?

- Tradition(non religious) - dad's dad have it, dad have it, so its okay and normal for me to have it

- Ethics - is it okay to do this? with no proven benefit? on a child?

- Peer pressure - Girlfriends, social normal in the current country...


Of course, everyone has a reason to do it, or need to reason to tell themselves that what was done to them was reasonable.

edit on 6/28/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

this post is not directed AT you, and im not mad AT you.
ok?

honestly, im so mad, they can all go to %$^&! with their reasons for why and why not.

they do NOT have the right to cut a babies PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

im so mad that they cut me, THAT WAS A PART OF ME!!! i never said it was ok!

i would have been even angrier if they had "convinced me" at the age of 10 or something, and tricked me into getting it done.

ITS NOT RIGHT.

they should make you wait until your 18-20 and then NOBODY should pressure anybody into doing it in any way.

if you want it done, you should go and do it because YOU want to.

i would have NEVER done this. i want my tiny piece of skin back so bad. i feel like i never even had a chance.
peace.

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

Your ranting on like a screaming little child when you dont even know the physical difference between having and not having a foreskin! That would be like me saying i miss my penis.

OH GOSH I MISS MY PENIS!

edit on 28-6-2012 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)

are you saying that your a girl?

no offence but you wouldn't understand.

how would you feel if someone snipped the tips of your nipples off?

its basically the same thing, (no offence in ANY WAY) i just heard that girls have more sensitive nipples, and i figured it would be a good analogy....

peace.

No offence taken my love (yes i am a girl) Its just, from a logical standpoint, your missing something you never had. Your missing a physical trait of yourself you never "had" (or was aware enough to notice and say "That is part of me)

I honestly cannot understand how you seem to be so violated by something that hasn't had negative impact on your life? Or has it effected your life so badly?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

I rather trust what nature gave me then some man made religious/cosmetic upgrade(rather deduction lol), There is no proven fact that circumcision is beneficiary, all i see is that removing a layer of protection. The "forsaken foreskin" have soo many sensitive nerves that is visible, sadly, those who never had it will never see it.

I was specificity referring to having a medical problem, i.e the foreskin being to tight on the penis and its having to be medically removed in the best interest of the patient.

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

I noticed, after your first post, that Finland has a 0.6% circumcision rate. May I ask since you live there, is your country experiencing abnormally high rates of HIV/penis cancer?

CJ

That's exactly the point I made. We dont do that here and we're doing just fine. We dont have huge HIV waves and mens members "rotting and falling" like one member wrote here.

Wallerstein found that the risk of penile cancer in Finland, Norway, and Denmark (all noncircumcising countries) is about the same (1 in 100,000 per year) as in the U.S.

..

The American Medical Association and the Royal Australasian College of Physicians say the use of infant circumcision in hope of preventing penile cancer in adulthood is not justified.

www.networlddirectory.com...

So no, the myth about penile cancer and circumcision is just that, a Myth. Who started it? I don't know but anyone willing to take my bet it was the allopathic community with their $400 billion circ biz in the US alone?

Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Who are YOU to say I should have my genitals mutilated because your God demands it? How disgusting and absurd.

I could ask you the EXACT same question about imposing rights on women and their genitals. Who are YOU to say I should be forced to have this child because your God demands it? How disgusting and absurd.

I'm not sure what your point is. We shouldn't be listening to any man made religious dictates in regard to laws of the country, imo.

CJ

reply to post by RogerT3


Yes, most of these studies are interestingly vague. Some of the cited case studies here on this thread, when one delves a little deeper, have 6-7 test subjects. Hardly convincing studies.

CJ

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by luciddream
Currently in this thread the argument boils down to these..


- Religious/Right to perform the rituals..

- Politics, Germany "trying to get rid of everything jew"

- Health - is circumcision necessary?

- Cosmetics - Looks..?

- Tradition(non religious) - dad's dad have it, dad have it, so its okay and normal for me to have it

- Ethics - is it okay to do this? with no proven benefit? on a child?

- Peer pressure - Girlfriends, social normal in the current country...


Of course, everyone has a reason to do it, or need to reason to tell themselves that what was done to them was reasonable.

edit on 6/28/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

this post is not directed AT you, and im not mad AT you.
ok?

honestly, im so mad, they can all go to %$^&! with their reasons for why and why not.

they do NOT have the right to cut a babies PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

im so mad that they cut me, THAT WAS A PART OF ME!!! i never said it was ok!

i would have been even angrier if they had "convinced me" at the age of 10 or something, and tricked me into getting it done.

ITS NOT RIGHT.

they should make you wait until your 18-20 and then NOBODY should pressure anybody into doing it in any way.

if you want it done, you should go and do it because YOU want to.

i would have NEVER done this. i want my tiny piece of skin back so bad. i feel like i never even had a chance.
peace.

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

Your ranting on like a screaming little child when you dont even know the physical difference between having and not having a foreskin! That would be like me saying i miss my penis.

OH GOSH I MISS MY PENIS!

edit on 28-6-2012 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)

are you saying that your a girl?

no offence but you wouldn't understand.

how would you feel if someone snipped the tips of your nipples off?

its basically the same thing, (no offence in ANY WAY) i just heard that girls have more sensitive nipples, and i figured it would be a good analogy....

peace.

No offence taken my love (yes i am a girl) Its just, from a logical standpoint, your missing something you never had. Your missing a physical trait of yourself you never "had" (or was aware enough to notice and say "That is part of me)

I honestly cannot understand how you seem to be so violated by something that hasn't had negative impact on your life? Or has it effected your life so badly?

i know that you may not understand when i tell you, but i just... i know.

i know how it feels because...

well...

when i... *ahem*...



there's a certain way you can....


ummm well..... if your healthy.... and...



you can *hold* "it" a certain way... and it is pretty much (as long as you hold it that way) it remains temporarily uncircumcised...

in the sense that, its temporarily (like it never happened)


but as soon as you ummm "let go of it"

it flops back... to being... circumcised...



edit: when you get a.... um.. when it "wakes up" when you see... something pretty.... um...

it usually it can.. the umm... top... can.. "pop out" even if your uncircumcised...


hence the expression... popping a.... uhm... ok...



but it can also stay *in* even if .... its awake... well.... yea...




pretty much, i can imaging *that* the way it felt, + the feeling of how comfortable it was + how safe and protected "it" felt, all covered up..... + (based upon what others have said, and what i can imagine) much more sensitivity...



(if you touch the back of your hand - vs - your palm)




i am very sure that i would have preferred it to be the way it was before i was ever circumcised....



BUT, even if i didn't know what it felt like, EVEN if i don't know for 100% sure what i had lost, i still disagree that it should have been taken from me without my permission.

it hurts in so many different ways.



(this post was not intended to gross anyone out or offend anyone)


peace.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc


You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

Your ranting on like a screaming little child when you dont even know the physical difference between having and not having a foreskin! That would be like me saying i miss my penis.

OH GOSH I MISS MY PENIS!

edit on 28-6-2012 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)

You would find it hilarious for a man to be told he needs part of his penis surgically removing?
Hmmm, would you find it funny if the doc suggested he should hack off one of your boobs?
I wouldn't

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

You know what i would find hands downs hilarious, that, if in an alternate universe you had a few years with your precious forsaken foreskin only then to start having problems before the doctor says "Look son, its best we take it off"

I rather trust what nature gave me then some man made religious/cosmetic upgrade(rather deduction lol), There is no proven fact that circumcision is beneficiary, all i see is that removing a layer of protection. The "forsaken foreskin" have soo many sensitive nerves that is visible, sadly, those who never had it will never see it.

I was specificity referring to having a medical problem, i.e the foreskin being to tight on the penis and its having to be medically removed in the best interest of the patient.

in reply to the medical comment, they wouldn't have to remove it, there are ways of loosening it a bit, through stretching, or if that doesn't work, they can just loosen it, without cutting it off completely.

Originally posted by moleskin
reply to post by Believer101

 

So if the general consensus was that MEN preferred women to have a less than 28inch waist, 34EE breasts and a cute ass... you are ok for us to operate on our young female population to achieve that yeah?

Seriously consider the context of your response!

Forcing a woman to have surgery for /your/ preferred waist, breasts, and ass is different than taking a tiny bit of skin from a baby boy.

Besides, as a previous poster said:

Women are well aware of what men like women to look/act like - They've been pushing their views about femininity for a few thousand years now so much to the point that in modern times, women and girls are even starving themselves to get thin for "you" But i'll let your few thousand years of brainwashing women to adhere to male standard of "beautiful" slip on this occasion

There's a simple solution to all of this. If you don't like it, don't let your son get one. Simple as that. Don't force YOUR views on everyone else.

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

]i know that you may not understand when i tell you, but i just... i know.

i know how it feels because...

well...

when i... *ahem*...

there's a certain way you can....

ummm well..... if your healthy.... and...

you can *hold* "it" a certain way... and it is pretty much (as long as you hold it that way) it remains temporarily uncircumcised...

in the sense that, its temporarily (like it never happened)

but as soon as you ummm "let go of it"

it flops back... to being... circumcised...

pretty much, i can imaging *that* the way it felt, + the feeling of how comfortable it was + how safe and protected "it" felt, all covered up..... + (based upon what others have said, and what i can imagine) much more sensitivity...

(if you touch the back of your hand - vs - your palm)

i am very sure that i would have preferred it to be the way it was before i was ever circumcised....

BUT, even if i didn't know what it felt like, EVEN if i don't know for 100% sure what i had lost, i still disagree that it should have been taken from me without my permission.

it hurts in so many different ways.

(this post was not intended to gross anyone out or offend anyone)
peace.

Well, thank you for at least taking the time to explain, muchly appreciated

I'll just have to take your word for it!
Though i agree that a boy should have the choice when he is mature enough to make it.

But i still stand by my earlier post in this thread that you cant have an earth shattering orgasm every time you cum and many circumcised men have happy sex lives and abit of foreskin would be unlikely to resolve any problem he was having with sex or his relationship.

PEACE!!

reply to post by Believer101


Aren't the religious parents views being forced upon someone?

CJ

Originally posted by Believer101

There's a simple solution to all of this. If you don't like it, don't let your son get one. Simple as that. Don't force YOUR views on everyone else.

edit on 28/6/2012 by Believer101 because: (no reason given)

And how is slicing off 30% of the penile shaft skin of a baby not forcing your view on someone else ... ?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

]i know that you may not understand when i tell you, but i just... i know.

i know how it feels because...

well...

when i... *ahem*...

there's a certain way you can....

ummm well..... if your healthy.... and...

you can *hold* "it" a certain way... and it is pretty much (as long as you hold it that way) it remains temporarily uncircumcised...

in the sense that, its temporarily (like it never happened)

but as soon as you ummm "let go of it"

it flops back... to being... circumcised...

pretty much, i can imaging *that* the way it felt, + the feeling of how comfortable it was + how safe and protected "it" felt, all covered up..... + (based upon what others have said, and what i can imagine) much more sensitivity...

(if you touch the back of your hand - vs - your palm)

i am very sure that i would have preferred it to be the way it was before i was ever circumcised....

BUT, even if i didn't know what it felt like, EVEN if i don't know for 100% sure what i had lost, i still disagree that it should have been taken from me without my permission.

it hurts in so many different ways.

(this post was not intended to gross anyone out or offend anyone)
peace.

Well, thank you for at least taking the time to explain, muchly appreciated

I'll just have to take your word for it!
Though i agree that a boy should have the choice when he is mature enough to make it.

But i still stand by my earlier post in this thread that you cant have an earth shattering orgasm every time you cum and many circumcised men have happy sex lives and abit of foreskin would be unlikely to resolve any problem he was having with sex or his relationship.

PEACE!!

ah you make me blush lol...


*adding you as a friend because you are crazy!*


*hugs*




well as to the reply... umm haha..... umm

its like... GOOD .... REALLY GOOD.... when i.... ahmm......


but it would be better...... MUCH BETTER...... if i had.... you know.



*crys*