Why should any woman convert to Islam? A serious question.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

I did read it, I was just hoping to change your mind.

Why do all the Muslims feel so threatened by this question? Any why refuse to answer it?
Why not stand up for your faith proudly?

I just don't get it.

You have left me more confused than ever.

reply to post by grandmakdw


Its not a matter of 'feeling threatened' by questions. In fact, I welcome them. But when they come with the tone yours already has, full of preconceived notions and biases, hate and ignorance---which you do not want dispelled--- it becomes little more than a pointless exercise.

Point blank, I could care less what you think of my religion, or me personally. I have no desire to 'show you (or anyone else) the light' and you apparently want to convince others that Islam is evil.

Personally, I do not care if you think my religion is evil because I have met people like you before and it does not matter what you say or explain, they have this notion in their heads and are unwilling to listen to any voice that does not agree with said notion.

I love my religion, I love God, I am both Muslim by birth and by choice, I am well respected within my (the Islamic) community and have never met anyone who was forced into a marriage they did not want and agree to, and instances of abuse found in Muslim homes are not disproportionate to the abuse found in Christian (or other) homes...

but that is not what you want to hear I am certain. Have fun with your bashing!

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I keep hoping someone will be willing to defend their faith and the words of Mohammad regarding women.

Glad you are happy in your life.

reply to post by grandmakdw


Then you should be happy speaking to men if you are only concerned as to the teachings of the religion. There have been those in this thread and others who have been happy to speak to you on these matters.

The teachings are from God Himself, related to us through the Holy Prophet (sawa) of Islam. (ie; NOT the words of The Holy Prophet Muhammed (sawa) but the words of GOD)

The majority peoples: Anything over 50 percent is a majority. 51 percent of 100 is a majority. The sexes are aproximately evenly divided into almost 50/50 as far as the human race is concerned. However, the largest majority of women in general do not concern themselves with the most important things in life. A great many women want to discuss getting their hair and nails done, or what new clothes they bought this week, or other very mundane things that are quite senseless, (and often these discussion they desire to have in the middle of a lecture!)

I am a female and I am very intelligent which is also acknowledged and respected within my community, however, if I want to learn something that is important to me, a matter i regard highly, I find very very few women with whom I can discuss, usually in these areas men are the definite majority, and not because woman were denied education either. Many women simply do not care.

Woman are easily trusting of others, therefore easily talked into doing wrong things, and neither do they (in majority) think everything through in the same manner the male of our species would, and neither do most care about more, than only enough education to be more materialistic. Also emotions can have a tendency toward getting in the way of rational responses, something I personally take extra care in because of this tendency.

Many women do care and are very intelligent, but as a ratio woman are of lesser intelligence than the male ratio....by choice. Therefore, I do not find it odd from an experiential standpoint that over 50 percent of the inhabitants of hell would be female.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Ok, so you are saying you think Mohammad is correct, women are mostly intellectually inferior to men, are less likely to be rational and more than 50% of Muslim women probably will go to hell. However, you exempt yourself because you are more enlightened than the average woman.
Is that a correct summary of what you said?

By the way I'd listen to a man defend the words of Allah through Mohammad that I quoted earlier. The men have only ranted and did not give me a reasoned positive answer as to why the over 50% of women doomed to hell should choose to follow Mohammad.

Your reply is honest and brave. I appreciate it.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

xtian fanatics were terrorists in their day, and eventually they destroyed society in their quest for dominion
since then i don't think i'd be too off the mark in stating that xtianity has wiped out a billion

More people are killed by Islamists each YEAR than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

Historians estimate that about 270 million people have been killed by the "religion of peace" since Islam came onto this earth.

Atheists kill people in such vastly greater numbers than any religion EVER

"And the much greater persecution of priests and believers
in 20th Century Atheist tyrannies clearly demonstrates
the murderous anti-theism of Atheists."

"Then you explain why they kill people in such vastly greater numbers
than any religion EVER HAS in all of history!?"

• Russian Civil War (1917-22): 7 to 10 million
• Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 million
• People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 44 to 72 million

Source

"...secular ideologies were responsible for the murder of 100 million innocent people during the last century

Source

Nobody has died because of religion. When people "kill in the name of religion," they're actually going against what religion teaches.

A man could claim to be killing in the name of Mickey Mouse -- but that is a bad reflection on the man, not on Mickey Mouse.

Atheist Communist regimes, meanwhile, have killed over 100 million of their own people (and that's a conservative number) in just the last 100 years.

They didn't do it in the name of atheism, precisely, but their killing is not going against what atheism teaches. Because atheism, in essence, teaches nothing. Whenever atheism has been installed as the Official State Religion, the state in question has always given itself permission to do unspeakable things. Always.

When God is not, as Dostoyevsky wrote, anything is permitted.

Link

reply to post by grandmakdw

I don't see how you and your "defenders" keep going on about how you are not baiting, and are totally honestly wanting a reply when less than 14 minutes after your initial post you gleefully posted "Haha! So much silence! Obviously Islam is false, etc. etc.".

Sure, you might get a response in 5 minutes in your other threads, but since you asked for muslim responses (which are probably a very small minority on these forums), and out of that specified that you'd prefer FEMALE muslim responses (which would probably be half of that), it isn't surprising that you had to wait 38 posts (or 9 hours) before you got a response from your desired demographic, and by that point your agenda had become pretty obvious.

If I started a thread about how Jainism sucks, and said "Hey Jains, please post a reply if I'm wrong!", and got no reply, it wouldn't be indicative of the suckiness of Jainism. It'd be indicative of my lack of knowledge on the subject, and the lack of Jains on the board.

Since Muslims believe Islam is the final "true" religion, they have no need to "defend" their faith. Especially against unfounded and half-understood claims. You claim that the "Korean" [sic] says that very few women will be in hell, even if they are pious, yet when asked to back up this claim, you quote the Hadith, even though the hadith you quoted doesn't say what you said. Do you know what the Hadith are? Do you know what the QURAN is? Do you know the difference? Or is all your information about Islam gleaned from non-islamic sources? Then you talk about conditions for women in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Wait...are you asking why any woman would change their nationality to Irani or Saudi Arabian, or why would they convert to Islam?

Why a woman should convert to islam? Well they cannot answer it as religion itself is a kind of evil possesion. No woman in her right mind would want to belong to islam or even christianity as this also has similar verses you quoted from the koran. Women in islam could feel good because of the priviledges it accords them. The men even do their shopping. What is better than sitting at home like a fat hen all day being lazy? It even gets better if a woman chooses to wear the veil. This has the same effect as wearing dark goggles. You can view everyone else from the corner of your eyes and you eliminate the need for drugs to avoid shyness. What a funny world we live in.

reply to post by babloyi


lol... this lady cares nothing for the truth or she would have had honest discussion with the Muslim men who were answering in this thread. She wanted someone to tell her she was going to hell because she was stupid so she could sit around and feel justified in her hatred.

These people are going to hate regardless, may as well give them what they seek.. truth means not one thing to them, she made this perfectly obvious in her first post.

Heck, she is busy trying to convince herself that GOD is now sending beautifully pious people to hell... I mean really? lol... too funny

I believe the OP was sincere in her questions, and didn't intend any disrespect. I know I didn't intend any disrespect, and if someone has been offended then I apologize.

Here in the US, the majority of info presented about Islam is negative, especially with regards to women's rights. We hear story after story about rape victims being executed, horror stories about sharia law, etc.

I know there's more to Islam than what MSM reports. So does the OP. She's trying to understand the truth, to clear away the nonsense and isolated events and better understand Islam.

If anyone can share your experiences with Islam, I would love to hear them. Do you believe Islam is mysoginistic? Are the horror stories we hear the norm or the exception? Is the treatment of women based on the Koran or the Prophet's teachings, or cultural expectations?

Thank you in advance for helping us to understand.

reply to post by grandmakdw


Have you not read your own bible?

Women are viewed as less than men there too.

What's that about the plank in your own eye...?

reply to post by Chamberf=6


True, the bible has some horrible things to say about women, especially Paul. This is one of the main reasons I've turned away from fundamentalist Christianity.

One major difference, though, and it's a big one. Christianity is separate from law in the US. Sharia law is different. Or is it?

This is why we ask questions: to better understand. It is a genuine request. So help us understand, let's get an honest exchange going. I'm happy to answer any questions about US culture or Christianity. Just ask.

reply to post by smyleegrl

The law of a state/sect and being a Muslim is different though depending on the country.

Same as all the many sects of Christianity, things vary.

The OP tries to paint in one blanket move all of Islam as awful.

Her intentions are plenty transparent no matter how much she says the opposite.

The OP could have approached the question better, the question was asked in a way it already takes an offense to the person being asked... like "Cats are stupid animals, any cat lovers here tell me why they love cats?" it could have been "Any cat lovers here tell me why loving cat would be beneficial?"


If a Muslim women are happy with how they are treated(we don't really know unless we lived in the M.E for few years, all we get is MSM concentrated info).. just like some countries thinks that USA is a just a country with Red Necks ready to press on the "Launch" Button for a Nuclear Weapon

Maybe all M.E might be seeing is "Keeping up with Kardashians" "Jerry Springer" and "Gangster Raps".. and they will have discussion on how these things are fuked up.

All i know is General religious Muslim countries give power to men over women, women are not seen as equal(even in western country this exist to a limit on CERTAIN AREAS), but there are many countries in M.E where women dress in short cloths, go to clubs, don't wear head scarf etc etc..

reply to post by smyleegrl


You have asked me similar question in U2U and I answered at that time.

Islam itself was literally one of the first feminist movements known to man, giving rights to women that no other religion had ever done.

It gave women the right to choose her husband, rather than simply being traded like chattel

it gave women the right to her own money and her own dowry, before this the marriage dowry was given to her father and she never saw a dime, Islam came and said no, the dowry is for her and her alone, to help her in the event of unexpected things.

it gave women the right to ask for a divorce if the marriage was bad, and said it was ok to divorce if there was no other solution.

Islam gave women the right to their own property, and gave women the right to be supported by their husbands, a womans property did not become the property of her husband the second she got married.

Islam gave women the right to life, making it completely forbidden to kill infants for being female, a practice that was common before the advent of Islam. It even went further and said to parents that there was twice as much blessings in raising female children than male children, and that a man with daughters was especially blessed.

Islam gave women the right to education and learning, and even encouraged the practice.

In the treatment of women, Islam is hands down the best, and the first religion to state that women are not mere ignorant baby making machines. But intelligent people instead. In ahadith it is written paradise lies at the feet of your mother. Women have in Islam a very high regard, and are highly respected individuals, and the majority of Muslim men do treat their women thusly.

That said, Islam does teach that men and women are different, so rather than equality, there is equity to be found. Women do not have the same strengths as men, nor men the same strengths as women. Men and women are seen as compliments one to another, and each are respected for what they bring. Individuals are also respected for what are excellent qualities in them personally, regardless of male or female as well. The wife of the Holy Prophet (saw) Lady Khadijah was an exemplary business women, and never changed this, regardless of being wife of the Prophet (saw). She was to the time of her death, a career women. Others who did not have such strengths were strong in their respective roles, but none were meek and quiet if it was not time for such.

You see culture come into play, and many men have historically not liked giving up totalitarianism in favor of allowing women their God given rights. Its really not in their interests I do not suppose...

But a true Muslim man, one who believes in and loves the religion of GOD, is not mysoginistic in the least, quite the opposite in fact. The stories you hear about women being mistreated are exaggerated in the western media, while some instances do happen, they are not to be blamed on Islam... and most Muslim women really are quite happy in their marriages and homes. We have sons and husbands and fathers who would die for us, and offer us the honor we deserve, the rest are much fewer and farther between, and then it is cultural issues and not religious ones.

Some men will be men, some men are in fact evil, but they are not the majority.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Nonsense. Women leaders and cheiftains were not uncommon in Europe.

I swear....

Kidnapping your wives and having a written code of how not to treat them so bad you kill them is NOT an example of being great. That it can be considered an improvement on previous behaviour doesn't make it behaviour to aspire to. That people needed to have some minimum standards set, and the bar had to be this low is NOT a recommendation.

This is like people reading the story of Lot and seeing a good man. He wasn't a good man. He was a wretch, and that he was the best of the group should probably be understood to give you a marker about how horrible everyone else's behaviour was.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Thank you for addressing the questions again. I know I've stalked you through U2U quite enough, and I'm grateful for your replies.

I found your paragraph about how many Muslim men honor their wives, daughters, sisters, and mothers especially poignant. It's what I suspected, how could an entire culture think so poorly of women? I wish we could get more of these stories of "normalcy" out in the open. It would go a long way towards dispelling fear and hate.

It's interesting what you mentioned about Islam actually bringing women more rights than they had. Christianity did the same for the women of that time. Sometimes it's hard to remember that these centuries old texts really were so incredibly liberal during their infancy. Great perspective to keep in mind.

Thank you (again) for answering questions. You represent your faith very well, and I'm grateful to you.

reply to post by babloyi



I did a search of the Quran directly and the Haddith.

If there are Muslims who do not follow the teachings of the Haddith then I apologize to the Muslims who don't agree with or follow the Haddith.

These quotes are directly from the Quran

An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #34
As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means

An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #43
And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands


Also this is from the Hadith, a "quote" from Mohammed:
The Prophet said, "I stood at the gate of paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women." (Book #62, Hadith #124)

As is this "quote" from an apostle of Mohammed:
Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' " (Book #62, Hadith #125)

Also this is from the Hadith:
The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Book #6, Hadith #301)

So it seems you are correct, the Quran tells men to beat their wives as a last resort; clean themselves after coming into contact with women.
The Hadith in many places says the quote about most of the inhabitants of hell being women is a direct quote from Mohammed.
The other quotes are from the Hadith as many I sited before. I was unaware that the Hadith is not followed by many Muslims, so I apologize to those who do not follow its teachings as holy or authoritative.

Other criticisms that I look to Shariah law and equate it with Islam. It is Shariah law that is dreadfully misogynistic. I also apologize to the Muslims who also feel Shariah law is not the ideal form of government, nor is it a desirable form of government.
However, the majority of Muslims in the world do live under Shariah, do they not? And the proponents of Shariah say they are doing the will of Allah, do they not? They say all people should live under Shariah do they not?

I still have problems understanding why a woman today would choose (if she is free to choose) to convert.

reply to post by grandmakdw


There is only one country in the world which is run according to Shariah law, and that is Iran. The critisisms you face when looking at sharia law is going to be whose sharia law are you even going to be looking at? Shia is going to have differences from Sunni which both are severely divergent from the extremist groups versions of the same... its why only one country is ran according to sharia, and it is ran thusly because it is a Shia majority country, (I do not think Sunni sharia has a parliament... not sure how they would actually do sharia law to be honest nor am I certain they actually know)

That said, there is no forced conversions in Islam, it is either by choice or you do not convert. A Muslim man is even permitted to marry Christians and/or Jews however he must according to Islamic law allow her total freedom to practice her faith. He can never make her convert. Although I did meet once a Christian lady who was married to a Muslim man and he did not allow the Christmas tree in their home, according to her this was not a part of the Christian faith but a pagan practice that Christians only adopted therefore not a part of practicing Christianity. But she went to her church and prayed in her manner and did what Christians do and never had any problems being married to a Muslim.

The reason you see more and more western women converting is most likely they actually believe in the faith... shocking huh? Unless of course you would rather believe that Muslims are running around America and UK forcing Christians at gunpoint to convert... which might even be your next thread.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Forgive the ignorance, but I thought Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan also followed sharia law. Is this not the case?