Is Death An Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Im not being arrogant. Thats not my nature nor my style.... Good try though. Its just what I know .... My evidence is ALL of my experiences with death of loved ones. I could tell you stories that would blow your mind. Have you lost loved ones? If so, how many and did you experience anything " out of the norm"?

Why assume its my imagination. I know me. My dreams are very telling. Its my way to connect, always has been. Until you experience the awe.... You will not understand. Its ok.... No big deal. Not here to argue with you or anyone for that matter. Just want you to know there is a LIFE.... And this aint it. Lol

reply to post by MamaJ


I didn't mean to imply you were arrogant. I was only speaking of myself. It would be stupid of me to judge the real you behind the screen. I'm not here to attack the real you. If I were to guess, I'd say you are probably a smart, caring, creative and empathetic being completely void of arrogance, and I can only derive that from the feeling I get when I read your words. We need more people like you in the world. But we need less ideas like that. It's the idea I find arrogant. The solipsism.

I fear and attack the nihilism I see in striving for a life after death—or more fitting, a death after life. Everything we know of what constitues life happens before death. It seems that more and more people are hating life. Every dream, every thought, every relationship every love happens here, before death. The after-worldly crowd aren't realizing their own potential, real substantial potential, and in turn conclude that it is their body and nature and life itself that is the cause of their suffering, when in fact, outside of pain—a bodily defense mechanism—it is merely their thoughts, ideas, and idealism ie: society, the economy, social hierarchies etc. causing the most suffering—which in turn causes suffering to others who may not be so idealistic. Their ideas and the ideas of others is the driving force behind their suffering. Yet they do great injustice to themselves, their body, and nature by the act of wishing for a life after death. Hoping for death, is what I see here. It is something that should at least be explored and discussed further, and I was enjoying the conversation I was getting in this thread. So thank you.

I didn't wish to offend. I always presuppose that if beliefs are sound enough, then no words or ideas can hurt them. I hope that anything you disagree with you can easily discard and scoff at. I do that all the time. But if anything I say rings true, please at least consider and weigh the possibilities, and create your own system of belief before falling in line behind someone else's. A true free spirit.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
Misleading titles aren't helping ATS, just attempts at insulting people's intelligence using dubious sales techniques, presumably for the purpose of attention seeking rather than giving something truthful and worthwhile.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

in this old video you have Arthur C Clarke telling us that we need to move beyond religion and politics and form a society built on science and spirituality.

Carl Sagan speaks of the conscious evolution of the universe...

we are not just a live one life biological entity. all matter in the universe is experiencing their existance.
as matter evolves, that conscious energy finds new outlets.

I am Gaia... I am the stars, the galaxies. The Universe. I have been fortunate enough to have evolved through those other states of matter and am lucky to be here at the time we find ourselves in now.

ETA - the reason I even started this post, is because my thread title was straight forward and quickly disappeared

its the swarm of sensationalist threads, many of which are all on the same topic are the way things go here
people just want S&F so they throw out titles to catch your attention

I've wondered if the energy/matter that compromise our biological form is totally seperate from the conscious energy that is considered the soul. they are two seperate forms of energy experiencing the universe at different stages of evolution.

The fact that we are we have gotten to the point where we know that we are a part of this cosmic evolution shows that we are at the higher end of the scale. I think we are quite a bit from the top still, but we are making our way there.

Originally posted by gartenspinnen
The book '___': The Spirit Molecule is a good read. It is interesting because people under the influence of '___' tend to see alien beings that they interact with and seem entirely real and functional as their own entity. '___' is endogenous to humans and many plants and animals, which means it naturally occurs within these life forms, and it has been thought to be the cause of all unexplained phenomenon such as ghost sightings, alien abductions, etc...etc.

Brain wave patterns have also been copied and administered electronically close to the patterns registered when near death and you know what? people see tunnels, and the alien entities you describe, sometimes they see angels or feel sublime bliss and that they are not alone, that some benevolent being is accompanying them. Wierd but interesting huh? Always fascinated by stories and studies in to this area, even if one didnt believe in life after death, its still an interesting phenomena the brain throws up, I suppose a scientist/atheist would state that this was just the brains way of stopping you from panicking when you die, kinda like an endorphin or adrenalin rush when in pain or danger, so what I'm saying is this is the way they would explain the brain responding to the stimuli of death, by making you imagine an afterlife approaching to stop worry and panic, but me.... I actually do belive we go on after we die, we can't create something from nothing, and nothing is ever truly destroyed, it goes on in a different form, so we do go on kind of, but I believe in the literal sense of life after death, not neccesarily an almighty creator or heaven and hell, but I believe we do go on as consious entities, I have seen and heard from other people too many strange things in this life, so that's what makes me a believer, evidence of my own 2 eyes, and information from other people close to me, whom I trust enough to now they would'nt lie about stuff like this.

Having an interest in extrasensory function of the brain and also vast experience with computers I naturally compare the two for parallels. There are many. Everyone has had their computer 'hangup' (think coma) on occasions. This is generally due to a priority task consuming the cpu and/or memory and thus depriving other tasks of those essential resources.

The brain processes sensory data essential to keep us alive. When the brain is 'overloaded' some signal(s) can not be processed and sensory organ(s) must be ignored, as happens in a coma. I have never been told in what sequence the senses are ignored but, rather strangely IMO, have been told by medical personnel that one should talk to a person in a coma as their hearing is the last sense they lose. Can hearing really be our most life sustaining sense? Or is it the least essential, producing the least load on the brain?

Now, should the brain determine that bodily life can no longer be sustained does it then switch over to processing other senses which are not essential to keep the body alive but rather to prepare us for the next stage, the afterlife? The most commonly reported being seeing and communicating with predeceased loved ones who exist in a different plane of existence, a non material plane we were previously unable to sense.

Is there a way to force the brain to gift us with those other senses 'on command'?

Lets get one thing straight its a subject that is difficult to prove one way or another, except there are certain things that can be reasoned out if you have an open and honest inquiring mind. The idea that the 'universe' has an independent existence of its own accord without the so called 'observer' is not true. There is no way that we can prove that anything exists outside our mind since there can be no experience outside of the mind. All experience is a mental concept. If you follow the chain of events that have to occur before we experience any perception you'll realise that all 'events' take place in the mind of the observer.

Time and Space are mental concepts- in reality there is no here or there. Time does not exist only an eternal 'now'. I'm pretty sure there are now in this day and age many people who have come to realise this. Many people still think we live in a Newtonian paradigm one where matter is the basic building block of the universe. In this paradigm many things would be impossible, like travel faster than the 'speed' of light. Since we don't live in that type of universe but a universe that is 'mental' in origin, ie, is constructed mentally, its easy to understand what many scientists are saying when they state that light actually has no speed because it doesn't travel anywhere. I am not a scientist, but I understand that light is given a theoretical speed for the sake of using it in equations.
This is getting longer as a post so I'll quickly end by saying that relating to the matter of life and death that in the mentally constructed universe more things are possible and explainable than in the old Newtonian universe.
I can say more if anyone is interested... Iam.

reply to post by oghamxx


Death is an illusion, life is a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves...You are not a body, and you don't have a soul. You ARE a soul, and your soul has a body. Even if the body dies, you don't. You are the soul, and consciousness that inhabit it in the first place.

Reply to LesMisanthrope

The 'brain' doesn't exist outside of an idea, nor does anything else.

Originally posted by Iam67
Reply to LesMisanthrope

The 'brain' doesn't exist outside of an idea, nor does anything else.

edit on 30-6-2012 by Iam67 because: Don't wish to get involved in a misunderstanding

Common sense and the fact that we can dissect a brain, touch a brain, and damage a brain proves otherwise. Every idea involves a percept. Without your percepts, you would have no concept of life after death, mind, the brain etc. You're disregarding your entire sensual world to fall in line behind the metaphysics of Deepak Chopra's interpretation of an experiment. Do you not see the danger in this? Or did you come up with this interpretation yourself?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by oghamxx

 

Death is an illusion, life is a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves...You are not a body, and you don't have a soul. You ARE a soul, and your soul has a body. Even if the body dies, you don't. You are the soul, and consciousness that inhabit it in the first place.

Yeah, yeah .. They once said that the sun revolves around the earth and then they woke up. What you are is a narrative that the brain with its neurons and synapses is able to store and access. Everything else is hearsay, or wishful thinking.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

I've looked at a few of your previous posts and you seem to have got everything totally back to front as it were.
This has nothing to do with Deepak Chopra.
All so called 'matter' is a product of mind- this is basic ancient hermetic teaching (over 6000 years old) and you won't find any genuine occult fraternity who will tell you any different. Matter is a gross form of energy and energy is a gross form of of mind stuff to put it crudely.
The brain/mind argument has gone on for ages between people who don't understand the true nature of reality- but times are quickly changing as we begin to move into a more enlightened age.

Iam67

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Our senses can deceive us. The brain can be dissected but its all in the mind. Nothing can be outside of the mind- no one has ever interacted with anything outside of the mind. Can you not see that?

reply to post by oghamxx


Very interesting thread i thought, however, this line of thinking that in some way our observance of a phenomenon in some way changes it is flawed in my opinion.. its the same as the saying about the tree falliing in the forest..
Of course it makes a noise!, why is it that we humans think everything revolves around us and our interpretation.
Things are what they are, how we perceive them is a personal issue that does not alter their actual state.. of course this is unprovable as those states are imperceivable to us.

Life exists on so many levels, 99% of which probably exist ouside of our limited sensory array.
The work conducted on out of body experiences, extra sensory perception and near death experience should show you that there is more to the world than the dimension we exist in at present.. some work in the early days of leipzeig institute concluded that artificial electrical stimulation of the brain resulting in reaction in the nervous system 'proved' we are just driven by signals sent from our brain to our nervous systems, disproving the theory of the soul. it should be seen that the brain is like the keyboard, a means to translate the will of the soul to our physical bodies.. it is our souls that stimulate the brain to act, which is why people with brains damaged beyond recognisable repair have learned to gain control over their bodies again, as long as the soul remains with the body it will work around the damage.

reply to post by AllIsOne


wow, how completely condescending of you. when scientists understand that everything in the universe cannot be quantified and equated they may actually make some head way.. a mix of science and spirituality is where the real truth lies i suspect, and perhaps everyone in this thread doesnt understand quantum mechanics, but at least there getting involved and trying rather than slating those for trying to understand.

That was so funny I clicked on this thread to see how the deep discussion into the aftelife was going, but instead the page opened with those blokes above jumping out on me , i nearly S**t myself.

And they seems to have disappeared. What a suprise.

reply to post by MrTeaMan

No two people see the same scene in the same way, so in a way we do 'change' what we perceive. The tree falling in a forest thing assumes that humans are the only ones with perceptions...what about the animals and insects and the trees themselves? That does not mean that so called 'things' made of 'matter' have an independent existence independent of any type of observer- they do not. To think this is to infer that the material universe stretches on and on without end- it doesn't in a material way- how could it. You cant have a material universe made of matter that goes on forever. The universe exists in the minds of the observers for as much as it needs to for the particular sphere of observation. Other viewers in a far distant part of the 'universe' will have a different sphere of observation. Of course when I talk about observers I'm not including the source of the universe which obviously has cognition of all that is and ever will be.
When you dream you may dream that you are in a room. Whats outside of the room does not concern you- you are not cognoscente of it- it does not need to actually exist as part of your perceptions. If in the dream you move out of the room you will be aware of whats outside the room, but the interior of the room is now out of your sphere of awareness. Both the interior of the room and the outside are purely in your mind.
Iam67

Post pics or GTFO.

Seriously though, who cares. Religion invented this BS, so skirts don't start crying.

After living then dying, it will be exactly like it was like before you lived. Peaceful, exactly what you really should treasure, pure peacefulness. Who in the right mind wants to live forever? How boring of you.

Originally posted by Iam67
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Our senses can deceive us. The brain can be dissected but its all in the mind. Nothing can be outside of the mind- no one has ever interacted with anything outside of the mind. Can you not see that?

I have a man in my building once interacted with a bus—not in his mind, but in a street—and now he deals with a severe brain injury. Why is his mind limited since he received trauma to his brain?

Also, wouldn't our senses be a product of the mind as well? meaning that it is actually our mind and not our bodily senses that are deceiving us? Why don't you close your eyes, plug your nose, stick in some earplugs and try to walk down the middle of a highway? Your mind isn't going to get you very far, because without all of your senses, you wouldn't be able to navigate in the real world.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip



Yes, obviously the senses are a product of the mind also- how can they not be. There aren't any exceptions.