Turkey says Jet Downing cannot be ignored

reply to post by Ranong


Ahh ok. Wait though, I didnt see the repair ship in that picture
I thought those were mandatory for Russian naval deployments

Don't fly your planes in other country's air space and you won't have any downed planes.

Pretty simple really.

Originally posted by Ben81
This is really concerning news we have from the Turkish President..
He has invoked the article 4 in a way
condemning the shot down of their plane

Will this incident start the Syrian war ?
you know it need only exactly that kind of incidents
where tension are boiling to a point of no return

Turkey will probably lead the invasion
and Russia and China will have difficulty to stop them
US and Israel needed someone else then them to start the attacks

If there is no retaliation from Nato until the month of june end
we will be very lucky the incident didnt create chaos
and Turkey and Syria were able to come to an agreement with peace talks

What are the chances of that ..this declaration doesnt look positive at all

"It is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over [national] borders ... when you consider their speed over the sea," Gul told Anatolia. "These are not ill-intentioned things but happen beyond control due to the jets' speed."

Gul also said Ankara had been in telephone contact with Damascus and that a joint search operation for the plane and missing pilots was still under way.

The statement comes after the Syrian military said it shot down a Turkish fighter jet "over its territorial waters", risking a new crisis between the neighbours already at bitter odds over a 16-month-old revolt against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"Our air defences confronted a target that penetrated our air space over our territorial waters pre-afternoon on Friday and shot it down. It turned out to be a Turkish military plane," a statement by the military circulated on state media said.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's office confirmed the incident in which two pilots went missing.

"As a result of information obtained from the evaluation of our concerned institutions and from within the joint search and rescue operations with Syria, it is understood that our plane was brought down by Syria," Erdogan's office said in a statement.

Turkey would decide on its response to the incident once all the details became clear, it said in the statement, issued after a two-hour meeting between Erdogan, members of his cabinet and the military.

www.aljazeera.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 6/23/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

??? WTF ????

It is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over [national] borders ... when you consider their speed over the sea," Gul told Anatolia. "These are not ill-intentioned things but happen beyond control due to the jets' speed

Wait, ??/ Do you actually believe this? What are they using "Google maps" and who is flying this plane? A one eyed blind man?

shooting down a fighter jet is hardly a case for war, especially when that fighter jet was over or headed into foreign airspace.

the united states wouldn't shoot down a cuban fighter jet going towards florida.

who would be to blame there, cuba or the united states.

and who is to blame in the turkish incident, turkey or syria.

Yep thats why nothing will come of this except apologies and warnings

reply to post by Ben81


Lets have a look at Turkey. They love me in Turkey.

I have sent my goodwill ambassador there (Adriana Lima) many times and they love her and she has nothing to say but good things about Turkey.

Here she is on Turkish T.V. here

Turkey is a big country too. Just North of Syria... google map

You will never get goods across the Caspian Sea into Turkey that would be impossible. You would need a boat.

Iran is in a very favorable position right now and it plans also on building ships.

You see you could connect to the trade route through Turkmenistan if you wanted to. Through Armenia etc.

But you know what would be good is if you just shipped through Iran. You see when people want to buy and sell items, items get shipped.

Turkey has some good connections northward as well.

So Turkey is part of NATO and since we are really encouraging the S.C.O. to handle security why don't you just apply for observer status?

I would not be surprised if this was not a QF-4 drone variant without any pilots at all. I bet Turkey used a f4 drone to test Serian Air defences and no pilots where invovled at all. They just said there where pilots to make the downing more dramatic.

Q-F4 Drone

reply to post by Rocketman7


You know I live in Victoria BC Canada and when I want to buy something from China, I can just use the Internet and it gets delivered to my door, and PayPal handles the transaction and it costs me nothing. I don't even usually have to pay duty or taxes because our two countries have a loose trade agreement to encourage trade.
Can you imagine?

Click I want this, click it is paid, ring goes the door bell. That simple. But the kind of goods is the kind of goods that you might find at Walmart or sporting goods or anything really.

But perishable goods need to travel differently and I didn't mention it can take 2 weeks to get an order delivered. (for free) or you pay for next day delivery if you want to pay the surcharge or 2 to 3 days normal shipping by air. But at Christmas, there are backlogs at customs. You see China uses customs brokers and brokerage houses. They are experts at trade. But Christmas is a busy time and China is still growing to meet the demand for goods.

SCO member states hold "Peace Mission 2012" drill in Tajikistan
english.peopledaily.com.cn...

Eurozone should move forward or it will fall over
english.peopledaily.com.cn...

And Greece is asking for two years to get its act together and that seems about right because the troops are slated to pull out 2 years from now. But this trade route is being built very quickly, will be up and running long before then.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Let me show you what a trade opportunity looks like...

www.suitcart.com...

The price has gone up there in the last 2 years.

I bet if you were to shop around in that area of Italy, well do the math. You stock your shop and have a great markup.

From a different perspective, if you were a small business looking for markets situated in the Middle East or Asia etc.

Alibaba has the right business model. It just puts buyers and sellers together and handles the site and connects people.
www.alibaba.com...

But Lebanon trades in parts. They specialize. So the opportunities are endless really.

I have read Turkey would like to make Syria part of the Turkish Empire once again. At the very least, they would like to install a puppet government in Syria. The politics are lined up that if Turkey overthrew the current Syrian regime, they would be viewed as heroes by the US. Turkey has a strong enough military to defeat just about anyone in the Middle East.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So if you want to do business in the Middle East like we do, first let me explain the situation with the Internet.

People like to shop in stores because if they buy the wrong size, they can just go back and return it. And the same goes for many electronic products. Or shopping in general. So you can use the Internet to fill your shop and people will buy your goods in your shop. Now the thing is you want to be sure you have a good supplier and shipping is reliable.
That is easy to do by trial and error. A few small purchases tells you everything you need to know.

So when you place an order, you buy in bulk get a discount. To pay for your order these days could never be easier. A click of the mouse.

However in a situation where goods travel many routes and cross borders you need a good system of customs brokerages based on trust and in family relationships and associations and these types of organizations.

You want the goods to get through as quickly and easily as possible or else it just will not work at all.

Thats why the system of trust works best because you cannot take every package apart. It all has to flow on a goodwill basis. Of course it is checked at random, and the people all work to make sure things are done properly but the system is never perfect due to human error. So? You just carry on because that is how people make their living and they need deliveries right away for 'just in time' inventory.

Which is how the global economic trade network functions for efficiency.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Specifically?

Truck A in China wants to get to Syria, the truck is sealed at A by a trusted customs broker, trusted by all on the route since the stuff is shipped every day, unsealed at B.
Truck can be checked on route, is it still sealed, are the tires ok, carry on. Please stop at our truck stop for lunch we need the money.

Its just that simple. Once it hits the Mediterranean? Same thing on boats etc. Most large shipments go in container ships. But Greece used to know everything about shipping I wouldn't pretend to know more than them.

reply to post by Rocketman7


I will give you another example so as to hopefully show the people in the region, that business is more profitable than war.

There are 6 billion light bulbs in this world at least. And they will be changed to a more modern form of light bulb in the next few years.

All of lighting in the world will be transformed by low energy, LED lights.

50,000 hour life, and cheap as borscht.

But around that principal will be creative lighting techniques and new applications for architecture and wiring and all the fixtures and things that accompany a change of this magnitude.

So as the 3rd world emerges, inexpensive goods are coming available for them in large quantities.

But you know that the Western Market and commercial market and government will be changing bulbs to save energy. Absolutely they will the savings are so great.
I know who makes them, you can find sellers at Alibaba, for large scale supply but who is out there knocking on doors saying do you know you can save 80 percent on your lighting bill?
Etc and low cost long life bulbs.
Its a huge market just waiting to be developed.

Originally posted by Matt1951
I have read Turkey would like to make Syria part of the Turkish Empire once again.

There was never a "Turkish" Empire. And in its last days the Ottoman Empire was getting pummeled from enemies on all sides, especially Russia and Eastern Europe/Balkans. Everyone knows well enough that Turkish borders have zero chance of expanding anywhere.

Originally posted by Matt1951
At the very least, they would like to install a puppet government in Syria.

What would the Muslim Brotherhood the rest of the Islamist gangs have to say about that? And Turkey does not have enough foreign intelligence assets to make something like this happen.

Originally posted by Matt1951
The politics are lined up that if Turkey overthrew the current Syrian regime, they would be viewed as heroes by the US..

And who gives a **** about the US? I don't see any US state bordering Syria, or anywhere within thousands of miles. Whatever love affair US has with Turkey will have to stay between the two of them.

Originally posted by Matt1951
Turkey has a strong enough military to defeat just about anyone in the Middle East.

It couldn't handle Cyprus, and yet you claim it can defeat anyone in ME? Turkish military is unwieldy and cumbersome, too beuracratic, inexperienced, partially obsolete, and doesn't have anywhere near the level of logistics needed to launch a large ground invasion. Mind you, that goes for most countries in ME, except for Israel. It is not going anywhere, unless Turkey wants to find a place to bury thousands of its dead. Erdogan is a beuracrat to the extreme, and his main skill is running his mouth.



Now my main question after this incident is whether Turkey will continue its recon flights in/near Syria, and if so what would Syria do about it.

reply to post by Rocketman7


I am sorry, but I couldn't help notice that you appear to be talking to yourself. Now macroeconomics is an exciting subject and all, I just fail to see a direct relevance to this incident.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

I will give you another example so as to hopefully show the people in the region, that business is more profitable than war.

There are 6 billion light bulbs in this world at least. And they will be changed to a more modern form of light bulb in the next few years.

All of lighting in the world will be transformed by low energy, LED lights.

50,000 hour life, and cheap as borscht.

Here you go as an example of how the LED bulb is maturing fast into an eager market.
www.kimberlyledlighting.com...

Supply and demand is like that. If you have something that people want at a reasonable price you will sell it.
Whatever it is. Another thing is just direct sales to a country through the Internet as companies set up Internet shops everywhere. Even Australian pharmacies, take advantage of a few items that they can sell that American pharmacies can't even though the products are not illegal to have! So they just fill that gap.

Small countries with a unique product like Manuka Honey from New Zealand do a brisk business worldwide, because they have a product in high demand.

Frankincense is underrated. That and myrrh, personally I think they should sell better if promoted more.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I have a feeling that if Assad is deposed all christian churches that went unmolesed for years will suddenly be burnt down and their members executed. We know who wants control of Syria and why, one more stepping stone on the way to reviving the Ottoman Empire.

That shall happen, i hope not though all the christian churches or whats left of the 10% population of the christians will be either killed or forced to flee.

As in Kosovo

Hey lonewolf remember this?

reply to post by Rocketman7


The global economy is being run well.
english.peopledaily.com.cn...

Largely because its been worked on for the last 30 years constantly with large conferences and trade agreements and with the rise of this Internet technology and rapid communications as a whole.

IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde Welcomes Additional Pledges to Increase IMF Resources, Bringing Total Commitments to US$456 Billion

Mad money.

The US has gone through a lot of money every 4 years lately but they are the worlds largest economy. Does it dwarf that amount? It costs 6 trillion dollars every 4 years to run a superpower.

GDP 15 trillion. per year. Thats 60 trillion and we have been spending 6. And you thought we didn't know what we were doing.

But for the IMF to have a huge surplus, shows its members are in good shape financially.

reply to post by randomname

They sure as hell will if the pilot isn't defecting or doesn't turn around.How many MIG reports are given from florida any way like ....NONE.Russian Bears still get turned around when they approach Alaska.They will all get intercepted unless they are mandated treaty reconaissance aircraft.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by randomname

 

They sure as hell will if the pilot isn't defecting or doesn't turn around.How many MIG reports are given from florida any way like ....NONE.Russian Bears still get turned around when they approach Alaska.They will all get intercepted unless they are mandated treaty reconaissance aircraft.That is of course assuming we track them incoming.
Now Cuba will do that in an instant:
paxety.com...

edit on 23-6-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: Finished my point