Why Worship John the Baptist and Mary Magdelene?

The Great European Heresy: the extreme veneration, even the covert worship, of Mary Magdalene and of John the Baptist.

The Knights Templar are believed to have venerated John the Baptist. A book entitled, "The Head of God" claims the Templar's possessed John's severed head, worshipped it and it spoke to them.

Leonardo Da Vinci is said to have had an obsession with John the Baptist. He was also a Grand Master of the Priory of Scion.

The Cathar's were persecuted for heresy by the Catholic Church because they would not renounce their beliefs in worshipping the Magdalene.

I read that Mary Magdalene was said to have been a high priestess of Isis and that Jesus was initiated into ancient Egyptian magical rites whilst in Egypt. The book also said that Jesus and Mary Magdalene actually were practicing members of the cult of Isis. The Talmud refers to Jesus as an Egyptian magician.

So what is the connection between these things? Does anyone have any answers or information links?

I'd enjoy hearing anyone's comments or ideas about this mystery.

Thanks,
Deep

Well King Herod had John the Baptists Head Cut Off. Although I wouldn't put it past the Templars to Worship a Severed Head (The whole Baphomet thing is really Weird - unless it truely means "Baptised in Wisdom") - if the head really was of John the Baptist & Supernatural things did happen when it was worshiped - it would be freaky - but it would also explain a lot of things!!!

Baptism being their primary form of worship, there exist in modern Iraq a small group who worship John the Baptist.

Known as Johannites, records of such a religion are indicative of adherents existing thousands of years and in places such as Europe.

References seem to categorize them as a 'quasi-christian' group.

People worshiping other people has never made any sense to me, whether Mary Magdalene or Britney Spears. It seems silly.

As for Jesus being referred to in the Talmud as an "Egyptian magician", that's a new one on me. If you have chapter and verse, that would be spiffy.

About the only thing I am certain of regarding history is that no one alive and on earth today knows what actually happened back then. But that doesn't seem to slow too many folks down.

The study of history is as much art as science.

The John the Baptist/Baphomet connection is also a new one on me, and intriguing. I'll have to look into that.

Seems people are never at a loss to worship anything, except perhaps the Creator.

Possibly the continued worship of Mary Magdelene John the baptist may be taken to extreme levels by certain individuals, however it may also be a tool to maintain the sanctity and belief in what may be two very important individuals of the past.

Perhaps some extremely devout Catholics "worship" John the Baptist and Mary Magdalene, but, as a mainstream Catholic, I don't worship these saints. Yes, I do pray to them because I look at them as something similar to guardian angels. I certainly don't place them on the same level as God/Jesus. In fact, I chose my confirmation name as Maria Magdalena because of my strong feelings for her.
Maybe it just sounds as if I'm spouting the "Catholic line", but these are my own private feelings and dont' have that much to do with Catholic theology (I differ at many points from current Catholic dogma and theoloy)

joey

Originally posted by deepwaters

The Cathar's were persecuted for heresy by the Catholic Church because they would not renounce their beliefs in worshipping the Magdalene.

The Cathars were not persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church because they worshipped Mary Magdalene, but for many other reasons.

I did my senior thesis for my undergraduate degree in history on The Albigensian Crusade to destroy the Cathar religion.

The Cathari/Cathars were an ascetic group of Christians in the Middle Ages that interpreted the Bible symbolically, channeled healing energy much like Reiki practitioners do today, used herbal medicine, and accepted the doctrine of reincarnation.

[All references to the doctrine of reincarnation were omitted from the Bible by decree of Emperor Justinian in 533 AD. Henceforth, anyone preaching it faced governmental prosecution.]

They strove to live an apostolic life of poverty and charity. Most Cathars believed Jesus of Nazareth to be an angel and not one with The Original Creator. The word Cathari comes from the Greek word "katharos" (purified) and means "the pure ones." They started their own Christian sect, complete with churches and retreats in the region that was once called Languedoc (now the south of France) in the Twelfth Century.

Some present day scholars claim that Catharism stemmed from Gnosticism. However, this is inaccurate as the two philosophies represented two entirely different focuses. Firstly, unlike the Cathars, the Gnostics did not accept the doctrine of reincarnation. Secondly, Gnostics believed that inner knowledge was what led one to enlightenment, while the Cathari believed that the cultivation of spiritual purity and service to others brought them closer to God after they left the flesh. Hence, the Gnostics embraced a contemplative intellectual focus while the Cathari embraced a spiritual focus of selflessness and purity.

Eventually, the Vatican totally lost control over the region of Languedoc and attempted a number of times to get it back (along with the money from tithing) peacefully, with no success. Celibacy was not enforced among Catholic priests but was enforced among the Cathar clergy, which made the latter appear to be closer to God. Additionally, there was much corruption in the Roman Catholic Church at that time and this was well known. (Although in all fairness, it appears that the crime of pedophile priests sexually abusing and raping innocent children was not as rampant then as it is today.) Catholic clergy (especially bishops, cardinals and popes) would often have one or more mistresses, adorn themselves with rich attire and jewels, and live as wealthy noblemen. Another moral pitfall was the practice of the Catholic clergy accepting money for indulgences (favors from heaven). Consequently, many Roman Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals and popes became quite wealthy. In contrast, the peaceful, gentle Cathar clergy or "perfecti," devoted to a life of poverty and charity, appeared to the general population of Languedoc to be more spiritually principled than their corrupt Catholic counterparts.

After a papal legate was assassinated by Cathar knights in France, Pope Innocent the Third decided to initiate what has come to be called "The Albigensian Crusade" to destroy the Cathari in Languedoc. The reason why the "heretics" were called "Albigensians" is because many of them purportedly lived in the town of Albi.

Consequently, Catholic mercenary armies led by northern French noblemen demolished entire towns and butchered thousands of people, including many Catholics. Heinous crimes against innocents were committed in the process, e.g., women - especially Cathar priestesses/parfaits -- were stripped and gang raped; a point which never made it to the history books. These unchecked atrocities paved the way for the reign of terror that was The Spanish Inquisition. Another casualty of the crusade: the dream of the fledgling country of Languedoc becoming its own nation was extinguished and that region just became part of France.

They could torture, rape and murder innocents but they could not destroy their spirits; while the torturers, rapists and murderers faced their own demise after they left their bodies.

Which points to a key lesson that many near death experiencers espouse: no one ever truly gets away with anything. It just seems that many do while they are in a physical body.



[edit on 19-7-2004 by Paul_Richard]

mary magdaline, or mary of magdala was a High Priestess in the Temple of Inanna, similar to the goddess persephone/proserpine. it is where we get the word 'easter' from. it's an anglicanised form of the word 'ishtar' which is the celebration of inanna returning from the underrworld. in the , how should I say.. "undertones" that mary of magdala was a hooker of sorts. this is due to the practice of 'sacred prostitution' in which men were invited into the temple of Inanna to mate with the Priestesses for the spring equinox fertility rites... however it is rumored that yeshu studied in Egypt during his flight from Herod's wrath, it's also rumored that yeshu studied in Anglessy... and supposedly Joseph of Aramathea brought the Holy Grail to Anglessy(England)... random tidbits of knowledge. Joseph of Aramathea was in some way connected to the founding of the Tempe Society (templars)

You're not supposed to venerate/worship anyone but God. Praying to saints does not help, either, because God does not take the counsel of His saints (I forget where exactly in the Bible that's found). Jesus is the One Mediator between God and men.

The Roman Catholic Mary is actually none other than Semiramis, who married her son Nimrod. The Roman Catholic Jesus is based on Semiramis' second son, Tammuz or Molech. Isis and Horus came from Semiramis and her son.

If you read Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons," you see he finds links between all religions except Bible Christianity and Judaism and the Babylonian system. It was first published in the 19th century but you can order it from chick.com.

Mary did not remain a virgin. She had other children with her husband Joseph...she just didn't have sex with him until after Jesus was born. I'm sure she's in heaven--she's even mentioned in Acts as being a member of the fledgling church along with Jesus' half-brothers--but she's not Queen of Heaven.

Acts 1:14--These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Reference the above posts of Amethyst and
irdulili .... You two are so far out there ...
words escape me ... Egyptian sects ... Horus,
Nimrod .... YIKES! Your anti-Catholicism is
getting carried away.

And Amethyst - your 'discussion' of Mary not
remaining a virgin her life because of the word
'brethren' has been debunked over and over.
I'd suggest readings for you, but I have a feeling
that you are comfortable, stuck in your anti-Catholic
mode and that you really don't want to know
why the Catholic church teaches what it does.

However, if you dare read what the early church
fathers had to say about Mary, the Saints, etc.
(early as in before the year 200 or so) -
www.catholic.com...

Originally posted by Amethyst
Praying to saints does not help, either,
because God does not take the counsel
of His saints...

We are all supposed to pray for each other.
We can ask others to pray for us. This is
the 'communion of saints'.

Praying for each other -
Jer 15:1, Acts 12:5, Rom 15:30, 2 Cor 13:7,
Eph 6:18, Col 4:3, 1 Thess 5:25, 2 Thess 3:1,
Heb 13:18, Jas 5:16

Intercession of Saints
Tob 12:12, 2 Mac 15:14 and Rev 5:8, 8:4

I LIKE REV 5:8 and 8:5 - Major intercession from the saints!

We are surrounded by saints - Heb 12:1

Saints now in Heaven
1 Thess 3:13, Heb 11:40, Heb 12:23, 1 Pet 3:19, Rev 6:9

Miracles through relics
Acts 5:15, Acts 19:11-12


[edit on 11/19/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by deepwaters
The Great European Heresy: the extreme veneration, even the covert worship, of Mary Magdalene and of John the Baptist.

'Covert' worship? SO covert that the people practicing it don't even realize it eh?

The Knights Templar are believed to have venerated John the Baptist. A book entitled, "The Head of God" claims the Templar's possessed John's severed head, worshipped it and it spoke to them.

Well thats reasonable.

leonardo Da Vinci is said to have had an obsession with John the Baptist. He was also a Grand Master of the Priory of Scion.

The priory of (isn't it) Zion doesn't even exist. The only 'historical' document that makes note of it was some silly list that read like a whos who of the past thousand years.

The Cathar's were persecuted for heresy by the Catholic Church because they would not renounce their beliefs in worshipping the Magdalene.

I think that the cathars were more persecuted (and ultimately destroyed) for being heretics in general, and perhaps being gnostics too. I haven't heard that they actually worshipped mary magdalene.

Originally posted by irdulili
mary magdaline, or mary of magdala was a High Priestess in the Temple of Inanna, similar to the goddess persephone/proserpine.

What is the source for this? Other than the tradition of her being a prostetute? Wouldn't the disciples and other members of the early christian community, certainly those in teh levant, know the difference between a regular woman and a temple prostitute?

amethyst
The Roman Catholic Mary is actually none other than Semiramis

Ludicrous. Catholics do not worship semiramis, ishtar, or anyone other than the Triune godhead.

you see he finds links between all religions except Bible Christianity and Judaism and the Babylonian system

This is also the general thrust of joseph campbell's work, except he notes that christianity and all the other religions are all interconnected.

According to the Gospel of Thomas, R. Yehoshua bar Yosef ("iesous") said:

"Amen, I say unto you: The Fountainhead of Prophecy was Severed with the Head of John: From henceforth, the Kingdom of God is preached with violence, and only by violence can a man enter into it..."

Either way, worshipping or revealing "severed heads" of famous people was quite a past time in the middle east for millenia, where it was thought to have had some kind of totemistic power. It is said that Skull and Bones (and other quasi Masonic underground lodges) at Yale revere the various decapitated skulls for their magical power...

The gravedigger at Old St. Marx Cemetary in Vienna took off the head of the corpse of Wolfgang Mozart 10 months after burial and kept it as such a relic (now his two front buck teeth and lower jaw went "missing" since 1902, go figure): for a time the same thing had happened to Haydn (phrenology or the study of skulls in Vienna was big business between 1800 and 1830).

At least Josef Haydn's head was reattached to his skeletel frame, but it looks liike Mozart's body is still, well...missing, so the skull (minus the two top front teeth and the lower jaw) has no place to sit except on that blue cushion !

as I recall Shoenberg(?) applied the Atbash cipher to the word Baphomet and
got Sofia.

As for John the Baptist there are a couple things. first there were many at the
time that thought John was the Messiah not Jesus. Second there is a tradition
talked of in the dead sea scrolls of dual messiahs being expected. One of the
Aaronic line and one of the Davidic line. basically a Priest Messiah and aKing Messiah. somewhere it is mentioned that John was of the Aaronic line through his mother. the theory goes that John was the Aaronic Messiah and Jesus was
the Davidic Messiah and that after Johns death Jesus filled both roles or that
Jesus' twin brother became the Aaronic Messiah.

as for Mary M there are many things, a couple are mentioned in the Nag Hammadi texts where she is refered to as "she who knew the all" and the Apostle's Apostle

"you shall not make for yourself an IDOL in the form of ANYTHING in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. you shall not BOW down to them or WORSHIP them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandment."

Originally posted by Amadeus
According to the Gospel of Thomas, R. Yehoshua bar Yosef ("iesous") said:

"Amen, I say unto you: The Fountainhead of Prophecy was Severed with the Head of John: From henceforth, the Kingdom of God is preached with violence, and only by violence can a man enter into it..."

What do you think about the status of the gospel of thomas tho?

I recall hearing once that Mary became so highly venerated in Catholicism partially because everything else is so male centric. Mary became the gentle motherly female for believers to hang on to.

Paul Richard - your post is very interesting. Could you point me in the direction of books or links on the subject?

Originally posted by deepwaters

The Talmud refers to Jesus as an Egyptian magician.

Originally posted by Majic

As for Jesus being referred to in the Talmud as an "Egyptian magician", that's a new one on me. If you have chapter and verse, that would be spiffy.

deepwaters, yes the talmud does say that jesus was an egyptian sorcerer, but it also says that jesus is buried in feces in hell and that the virgin mary was a prostitute. good luck in the afterlife if you believe such blasphemies.
did you know also that this very same book endorses pedophelia with children as young as 3?

MISHNAH.[104b]But did not Ben Stada bring forth witchcraft from Egypt by means of scratches [in the form of charms] upon his flesh?

What do you think about the status of the gospel of thomas tho?

IMO it has more claim to authenticity than the cannonical texts. it was neither
writen for nor filtered thru Rome or pauline sources.

Originally posted by joey
Perhaps some extremely devout Catholics "worship" John the Baptist and Mary Magdalene, but, as a mainstream Catholic, I don't worship these saints.

No "devout" Catholic would worship John the Baptist or Mary Magdalene. We do not worship The Blessed Virgin Mary either.

Only God the Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit.