College Degree =/= Good Job

Originally posted by AzureSky

I cannot move at this time, it costs money to do that. Money i do not have.
There are none in this province that i have found, entry level jobs that are related that is.
Any other entry level job is minimum wage and i cannot afford to take a 6 dollar pay cut.
See a starting wage of 70k? I think canada needs some UAV factories. I'm making half that, and thats better than some of the classmates i went to school with.

Try and get in the door of a company that pays well for computer skills...take any job they got, and the reason is most companies will post all jobs internally first. This means the good jobs get filled and the outside world never sees them. I have two friends that went into their companies at any entry level "whatever" job and both are Directors now. In your case it seems you have a family and that limits your ability to earn less for a short while. Maybe move in back home or something...offset that cost of living so you can work at getting a head and not just surviving.

I highly recommend to undergo an apprenticeship in your field of study first and study based on this later if needed.

You learn your field from scratch and more in-depth, plus you earn good money to be self-sufficient and start out unindebted into your working life.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Useless:
Journalism/communications

I'd agree with that, however, if you want a job in radio you have to have a degree. Most journalists aren't even college educated (writers generally speaking)

Horticulture

Um, i have yet to see that in a state college on it's own. It is usually part of the Biology program.

agriculture

This is useful to those going into this field.

advertising

Again, this is usual not offered on it's own, rather as a part of another program such as communications or business. it is also a very lucrative field if you can get into it.

fashion design

This is only offered at art colleges and since you have deemed the entire subject of art unworthy of study we should just close all the art colleges right?

Child/Family Studies

This is not offered on it's own, rather as part of the Sociology and other degrees.

music

Music is actually a lot more useful than you think. Music undergrads are far more likely to be accepted into medical school than pre-med undergrads believe it or not.

nutrition

What I'm getting here is that you don't know much about college, nutriton is generally offered as part of another degree known as Physical Science (P.E.), now the Deparment of Labor disagrees with you. Getting a degree in this area qualifies you to be a personal trainer, nutrition is an obvious part of that. Considering the explosion in obesity in this country, this looks like a good field to get into.

theater

We get it, just ban art.

art

Oh you finally got to it. It's a good thing not everyone on the planet strives to be useful, otherwise this would be a really boring place.

Women's studiese
Gender studies

These are usually offered as Minors not Majors.


Best:

Health Care

Which you need an undergrad degree for.

Business

Again, you need an undergrad degree, unless you get the B.A. which might be useful for lower level work but if you want the big money you need a masters and believe it or not...They actually like liberal arts majors more.

Education

Requires a specialization in what you are teaching, these degrees are called things like Art education and Science education, not simply Education.

Technology

Not specific enough.

Engineering

This makes me lol, people keep saying this without knowing the market. Firstly, this degree requires a degree of intelligence most average people don't have. Secondly, even they are having trouble finding work due to the U.S. government allowing Indian workers to come in on visas who will work for far cheaper than the average American. Even their market is collapsing.

Finance

This is part of the Business degree.

It's blatantly obvious to any recent college grad that the best degrees to obtain are the fields that are doing the best in America.... Why are people so blind to success?

Maybe people just want to be happy.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Because they've been told their entire lives, from elementary school to high school, that any degree is better than none. They've been brainwashed that they have to go to college and get at least some degree, or they'll wind up a bum, and they're always told that it doesn't matter what.

That's the thing that I cannot stress enough. You ask why these kids major is useless subjects...that's why. They've been heavily brainwashed from a young age that no degree is a useless one, no matter how silly.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

That's the thing that I cannot stress enough. You ask why these kids major is useless subjects...that's why. They've been heavily brainwashed from a young age that no degree is a useless one, no matter how silly.

Well, I don't know if you've seen most of the Job adverts, but most of them demand a college degree.

Hi,

I'm a "Microbiologist", i have bachelors in science. My aim to be a research microbiologist and im currently Lab support in a micro lab in a Bio-pharmaceutical company.

This is what i realized..you need 3 things.

EDUCATION - degree/diploma etc
EXPERIENCE - working in you field experience
LINKS or HOOK UPS - friends and family member connections

EXPERIENCE + EDUCATION gets you the job. EDUCATION is for the employer to say when you F*** UP, "look he has the education, so the fault is on him", but it also in direct proportion to a ladder in your work place, the higher up level you can climb to, aka promotions and titles. You can get a job with diploma in that field + EXPERIENCE but you are stuck at lower level, a degree will let you climb up.

LINKS/HOOK UPS make sure you get into the interview, from there(unless the boss or manager is really close to you and is interviewing you)everything is up to you from there.

Right now my goal is to build up my resume with experience so i can apply for higher position. Getting into my company is hard, there are sooooo many people in my building doing menial jobs with Masters and Bachelors, so they can jump at the opportunity of a high job opening in the company.

I also like what the OP said, SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY field is better option, because for one, SCIENCE degree will make you take advanced math, advanced science(multiple, like chemistry(which goes into a lot of sub level), Physics, Biology(multiple sub levels)) and not only lecture but 2-3 hrs work of lab per science course.

Many people want to finish asap and get out, that's why they take things such as accounting and business, where no science is involved, and its different type of math, but there so many of these people, out of my 7 closest friends, 5 are either business or accounting, only one other is in a science field so its hard to get a job.

people who have yet to go to a university, and who have yet to study the origin of the university system in modern america, or who view education as the means to gainful employment probably shouldn't read further.

referring to degrees as 'worthless' probably parallels the emergence of the 'school as business/vocational training center' model which became very popular in the eighties. folks opinions on worth are likely influenced by their understanding of contemporary market forces.

this is not to say that universities have not overminted, or that the onus for education lies solely on the student (meaning many students graduate with terrific marks and little comprehension, just as many graduate with average marks and excellent comprehension.)

still not understanding what a degree actually is, how can you expect to judge its worth?

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Useless:
Journalism/communications

as long as there exists democratic culture, there too will exist a press.
now, if you were well trained in classic journalistic ethics, what place might there be for you at a mainstream outlet?

Horticulture

the science of plant cultivation for human use. if anything we need more horticulturists now, as we rethink our global impact.

agriculture

the study of farming. again important if we'd like to continue to eat...

advertising

advertising is a vocational major, and is most likely correctly placed.

fashion design

fashion design is perhaps a vocational specialty, however make no mistake, this is the equivalent of an applied science of culture.

Child/Family Studies

you're several hundred years too late if you'd like to get rid of FACs.

music

more music is produced daily than you can listen to in a lifetime. if just a hundredth of it is worth hearing, you might like the chance to know about some of it.

nutrition

on a site that decries monsanto more frequently than those who live in the immediate vicinity of one of their campuses, how can you malign nutrition?

theater

should we really kill off the pinacle of an analog entertainment because a digital alternative emerges?

art

as a vocational major, probably...some programs just have more to them than that.

history

yes. we should get rid of anyone who might remind us of our history.

photography

vocationally? as a study of the principals of documentation--certainly not.

literature

literature as in the major of english?
literature as in the major of Classics?
literature as in the study of the creative output of a civilization?
(which one might find valuable when trying to engage with said civilization)
literature as the study of the written word?

English

english was a jack-of-all-trades degree for very good reasons.

Women's studies

again, way too late to kill FACs.

Gender studies

but both women's studies and gender studies tend to live inside english departments.

Best:

Health Care

is not a degree at most schools, rather a track. a student would be better served by an actual degree in the study of a relevant science as opposed to a certificate for basic prereq. tracks.

Business

again, this is a vocational degree. once the context of the vocation changes it is worthless--very little institutional time is spent on how the context was constructed, the skillset which enables a student to see beyond the present to solve a new problem.

Education

I assume you mean k-12. it's a fixed market.

Technology

applied engineering

Engineering

applied chemistry.

Finance

applied mathematics.


if you talk to would-be employees, they can't find jobs. if you talk to would-be employers, they can't find qualified employees.

qualifications are usually what you know, not what something says you know, and we have a major disconnect. probably because our popular conception of 'value' is at best contradictory.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Because they've been told their entire lives, from elementary school to high school, that any degree is better than none. They've been brainwashed that they have to go to college and get at least some degree, or they'll wind up a bum, and they're always told that it doesn't matter what.

That's the thing that I cannot stress enough. You ask why these kids major is useless subjects...that's why. They've been heavily brainwashed from a young age that no degree is a useless one, no matter how silly.

fairly subjective, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by camaro68ss
I find it funny that history is "usless" knowledge. Maybe if people knew a bit of history, we would not be in the situation we are in now.

I bet farming and Ag is usless too.

Avarage US farmers age is 58 years old. Whos going to feed america 10 years from now? dont think your tech knowledge is going to do you good when bread is $20 a loaf.

Farming and Ag will be the new "millionares" of the future!

edit on 18-6-2012 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

The farmers were also the millionares of the past, at least in the country where I come from..

Originally posted by antonia
Um, i have yet to see that in a state college on it's own. It is usually part of the Biology program.

www.campusexplorer.com... There ya go.

Advertising: Again, this is usual not offered on it's own, rather as a part of another program such as communications or business. it is also a very lucrative field if you can get into it.

But you don't need a degree in advertising, a business degree or Marketing Degree will suffice. Here ya go. www.campusexplorer.com...

Fashion Design: This is only offered at art colleges and since you have deemed the entire subject of art unworthy of study we should just close all the art colleges right?

While you are right about the first part. I never deemed all of art unworthy to study, it just doesn't have any practical real world applications.

Family studies: This is not offered on it's own, rather as part of the Sociology and other degrees.

Again, doing some research will do wonders for your own education before you make crap up!
www.campusexplorer.com... ies

Music is actually a lot more useful than you think. Music undergrads are far more likely to be accepted into medical school than pre-med undergrads believe it or not.

You may be right and that's probably due to the diversity factor in colleges, but honestly most people become doctors because they are passionate about medical stuff, not music.

What I'm getting here is that you don't know much about college, nutriton is generally offered as part of another degree known as Physical Science (P.E.), now the Deparment of Labor disagrees with you. Getting a degree in this area qualifies you to be a personal trainer, nutrition is an obvious part of that. Considering the explosion in obesity in this country, this looks like a good field to get into.

Again not sure what planet you're from Many schools offer a nutrition degree, masters too! www.campusexplorer.com... but health care degrees can fall nicely into obesity stuff too. As can medical school, but most people wash out or don't ever make it.

Theater: We get it, just ban art.

You are jumping to conclusions. Try to think logically, what can you do with a theater degree? What is the epitome of that? Being a stage hand on Broadway?

Art: Oh you finally got to it. It's a good thing not everyone on the planet strives to be useful, otherwise this would be a really boring place.

So you admit art degrees are useless. Good. Because you're constant defense of useless liberal arts degrees was suffocating me!

Woman and Gender Studies: These are usually offered as Minors not Majors.

Again, seems like you have no idea what you are talking about. Check out this forum before making crap up. Many schools offer the major. talk.collegeconfidential.com... Interesting article about those with women's studies struggling to pay rent even: www.boundless.org... At the bottom of this page you can find schools with the major in women's studies. www.worldwidelearn.com...

Best:

Health Care: Which you need an undergrad degree for.

Where are you getting THIS information now? Ever hear of Health Care Administration? Yeah... Didn't think so. www.matchcollege.com... My own alma mater had this degree.

Business: Again, you need an undergrad degree, unless you get the B.A. which might be useful for lower level work but if you want the big money you need a masters and believe it or not...They actually like liberal arts majors more.

Guess what? You can undergrad in business too! Or go to a BUSINESS school!!!!! Ever hear of Harvard BUSINESS School??? You won't need a master's if you graduate from there!!!

Education: Requires a specialization in what you are teaching, these degrees are called things like Art education and Science education, not simply Education.

So what? it's still education. I guess you're just getting tired of making crap up though. It's ok...www.collegecrunch.org...

Technology: No Specific Enough

Ok wise guy, how do you like this list? Better? oedb.org...

To be Continued.

reply to post by antonia

Finance: This is part of the Business degree.

Wrong on so many levels. Finance is of course part of most business and technology degrees but you can also major in it as well. www.matchcollege.com...

Maybe people just want to be happy.

Yeah, I don't think people that cannot pay rent because they majored in women's studies at harvard are going to be very happy at many points in their lives because they made a stupid career choice. Women's studies

Oh I'm sorry, harvard doesn't have a women's studies major, just their liberal base is working very hard to get one! www.thecrimson.com...

Try to not make crap up next time please. I hope you're not advising people to go to college based on your misplaced knowledge about it....

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I had to make a choice years ago to drop the Art Minor and do Physics with my Math Major instead. They didn't have "computer graphics" back then or I probably would have gone that route... born before "my time" I guess...

Originally posted by unityemissions
The way to get ahead is easy:

Don't go to college and get in debt.
Work from the ground up while you're young.
Take out small loans, get a single credit card, and a simple bank account....build up to excellent credit.
Explore, and figure out what you want to do, do your research, build up a business proposal.
Go to your bank, and present your proposal to them.
Get a small business loan, and become your own boss.

If you get a full scholarship, there is no debt

Originally posted by jjf3rd77


While you are right about the first part. I never deemed all of art unworthy to study, it just doesn't have any practical real world applications.

Sure it does, if you want to go into Fashion you must have the training. You must either be a very good tailor or you need a degree in the subject from a college. Either way, I'm not sure why you bring this up because there isn't an epidemic of people studying fashion design.

Again, doing some research will do wonders for your own education before you make crap up!
www.campusexplorer.com... ies

I'm not making things up, I just have yet to see that. I'm not that interested in it.

You may be right and that's probably due to the diversity factor in colleges, but honestly most people become doctors because they are passionate about medical stuff, not music.

Uh, that's an assumption. Most people I know who go to Medical school do so because they think they can make a lot of money.

Again not sure what planet you're from Many schools offer a nutrition degree, masters too! www.campusexplorer.com... but health care degrees can fall nicely into obesity stuff too. As can medical school, but most people wash out or don't ever make it.

Ok, but what you said is Nutrition isn't useful, if you are living in a country awash with fat folks it is very useful.

You are jumping to conclusions. Try to think logically, what can you do with a theater degree? What is the epitome of that? Being a stage hand on Broadway?

Sure, if that's what you want to do.

So you admit art degrees are useless. Good. Because you're constant defense of useless liberal arts degrees was suffocating me!

The problem is you think you know what is and isn't useful to the whole of humanity-You don't.


Best:

Where are you getting THIS information now? Ever hear of Health Care Administration? Yeah... Didn't think so. www.matchcollege.com... My own alma mater had this degree.

HSA? What do we need millions of those?

Guess what? You can undergrad in business too! Or go to a BUSINESS school!!!!! Ever hear of Harvard BUSINESS School??? You won't need a master's if you graduate from there!!!

Uh, no, if you go to Harvard you will be competing at a higher level. I'd hope you were smart enough to go for the masters. I said you can undergrad in business, but you will not make as much money.

Ok wise guy,.

Not a guy

Originally posted by jjf3rd77


I never said music is worthless, I said the degree in music is worthless as is the degree in mathematics!!!

I do agree with trade school up to a point, you will be able to survive with a trade school education, but some may want more than that. Some will not do the kegstands

edit on 18-6-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

meh, my Math degrees have been quite valuable... I'm not a billionaire, but I do reasonably well and am very happy with what I do, so it's a winner for me

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by antonia

 

Try to not make crap up next time please. I hope you're not advising people to go to college based on your misplaced knowledge about it....

Uh, well I wasn't making anything up. I can only say what I know. I don't know of any colleges around me who offer many of the things you said on their own. Most of it is wrapped up in another degree and is called a specialization. Most of this has to do with the size of the college. I don't advise anyone to do anything.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

So wanting to make money and live comfortably is greed?

basically..... yeah, it is. If money is your main focus, that's all that will ever matter to you. You can live comfortably without HUGE sums of money, granted, it's nice to have enough to live on and some put back to pass on to the next generation, but finding a focus that brings true happiness is much more valuable. I found mine through getting an education, knowing the world around me, having my family and being able to provide the necessities and most of the desires as well. Happiness is the true wealth so choose what brings you happiness. Just be sure it's actual happiness and love, not present desire and lust or you'll be crushed when it all falls through.

About the art degree, I've got one and I worked as a desktoppublisher/printoperator/customer suport clerk thing and it was pretty boring, at least that was what I thought of it then, also it is a pretty stressfull job.

Now I am working in an industrial laundry processing plant/factory and I absolutely love it, never felt so usefull in my life. Started as someone who sorts dirty laundry, now I am an operator /production guy and I am allowed to operate many of the machines.

The company I work is different from what I was used to, they look to you as a human, really listen to you and they look at your abilities, if you are good with machines then they learn you how those machines work and allow you to operate them. If you are good with something else they give you a change to use those other abilities, at least if you are willing to use them offcourse.

And It is a great thing to know that you help, maybe 1000 or more people with clean linnen.

So it is not only about your degree, but also the company and your own motivation which are important factors of succes.

Originally posted by antonia


Uh, that's an assumption. Most people I know who go to Medical school do so because they think they can make a lot of money.

I've heard both. But one of my friends is having a hard time because even though he is passionate he has ADD and cannot focus on the material/terminology required to be a doctor. He can do the hands on stuff with blood and guts just fine...

Ok, but what you said is Nutrition isn't useful, if you are living in a country awash with fat folks it is very useful.

I said the degree isn't useful not Nutrition itself. Degree is different...

The problem is you think you know what is and isn't useful to the whole of humanity-You don't.

When did I ever say this? it's just a basic generalization, but its truthful in many ways. Most women's studies majors don't end up doing women's studies as a career. They probably end up in administration or like one of my Burger King managers from way back when majored in Human resources and he had to get a job at Burger King, which technically could be considered a human resource job, managing a burger king....

HSA? What do we need millions of those?

Yes.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, health manager positions are expected to grow 16 percent between the years 2006 and 2016. Managers are essential to keeping the business side of hospitals and other healthcare facilities operating properly and efficiently. It is their job to control costs and the security of patient records.

www.alliedhealthworld.com...

Uh, no, if you go to Harvard you will be competing at a higher level. I'd hope you were smart enough to go for the masters. I said you can undergrad in business, but you will not make as much money.

Still you won't need a masters if you went to harvard business school. You make so many connections there you will become a powerful player in the field regardless. It's up to me how much money I make in the technology industry not the business industry... I don't need a master's degree because I already taught myself half of the master's courses anyway, when I was a teenager teaching myself how to program. I am specialized in many different programming languages. And can move up in the financial industry or the tech industry rather fast. So nice try

reply to post by notionfreely


You make some good points.
A degree is worthless to some people because it doesn't apply to where they presently are. They don't realize that those above them or those more successful then them actually do have a degree and have gone further because of it.
Since they have no concept of what life with a degree is like, they see it as not being valuable. Very interesting concept...