Water found on the sun

I was reading about this new discovery of a 'star shooting water bullets' and found this.

University of Waterloo News Bureau

WATERLOO, Ont. -- Water has been discovered on the surface of the sun in sunspots where it causes a sort of "stellar greenhouse effect" that affects the sunspot's energy output.
"There's a perception that the sun is too hot to form water on its surface, but we have proved that it exists in sunspots because they are cooler," said Peter Bernath, a chemistry professor at the University of Waterloo.
Scientists from UW and the National Optical Astronomy Observatories in Tucson, Ariz., recorded evidence of water - - not in liquid form because the sun is too hot, but as vapor or steam -- in dark sunspots.

Apparently this water in the sun spots was discovered in 1995 but I have never heard about it, and a search on ATS didn’t bring up anything. It's pretty incredible in my opinion. So I thought I should share and see what you others think about it.

Researchers Confirm that Water Exists On The Sun

i dont think i can believe that.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i dont think i can believe that.

Yes pretty unbelievable

reply to post by maxella1


Just because it is unbelievable does not mean it is not true.

I was under the impression that the sun is kinda hollow or more like "Pure vacuum" on the inside and the sunspots are weak points of this vacuums bubble and the light and gasses are sucked inwards and not outwards hence why there are dark spots.

Hmm who knows.

So parts of these sunspots are less than 100C or 212F?


Really?

I think I read a planetary formation theory on this site which suggest material including water is ejected from the sun to produce our planets.I'm still unable to wrap my mind around it.

Originally posted by Hawking
So parts of these sunspots are less than 100C or 212F?


Really?

Dark sunspots can be 2,000 degrees C cooler than the surrounding bright surface of the sun, allowing detailed studies of regions that mimic the surfaces of red giant stars. Sunspots are caused by magnetic fields that float to the surface of the sun and locally suppress energy flow from the core. Bernath, an expert in molecular astronomy, said it is surprising to find water vapor on the sun because its surface temperature of 5,700 degrees C causes it to break into atoms of hydrogen and oxygen. Since sunspots are cooler, the atoms can recombine to form water vapor that can absorb escaping infrared radiation.

reply to post by maxella1


I don't think it's proven yet, its still just a theory, I could be wrong though...

The theory is simple enough, sunspots may get cool enough to allow hydrogen and oxygen atoms to recombine to create what we would call water vapour.

That's all I can say honestly Im pretty speechless

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i dont think i can believe that.

Yeah, seriously, I would of found it first.

And with how hot the sun is, it would like totally evaporate.

Originally posted by Hawking
So parts of these sunspots are less than 100C or 212F?


Really?

Steam is the answer. Check out the link. Now this is on Earth. Steam turbines running at 8000*F.

www.ehow.com...

The temperature of the surface of the sun where sunspots live is about 10,000 degrees fahrenheit. A sunspot would be cooler and about 7,500 degrees.

Demolecularization temperature of water is around about 14,000 degrees Fahrenheit if I remember right.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Water molecules under very high pressure and heat become super-critical where it is all three states gas, liquid and solid with the right pressure and heat. i hear they use this type of setup for the water cooling system in nuclear power plants. So I can believe that icy meteors that land into the sun's surface can leave their material debris on it for some period of time. check link for proof..
..en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Hawking
So parts of these sunspots are less than 100C or 212F?


Really?

Why is no one reading the article? It's all in the article... It's water vapor for a start..

But hey, if NASA say it's true then it must be a lie, eh!?

sunearthday.nasa.gov...

Sunspots can be so cold that water vapor 'steam' can even form within them! In 1995, astronomers Lloyd Wallace, William Livingston and Kenneth Hinkle at the National Solar Observatory in Tucson, Arizona worked with collaborators to obtain infrared spectra that proved that water molecules could exist in the umbral regions of some sunspots.

Never a Straight Answer!!!11 what are they trying to hide I wonder...

Water 373.946 °C (647.096 K) 217.7 atm (22,060 kPa)

Critical Temperature
en.wikipedia.org...


en.wikipedia.org...

Does this mean that this isn't possible?

en.wikipedia.org...
Sublimation (phase transition)

Dont water molecules sublimate at like 3500C, cracking the molecule into atoms and such?

reply to post by mainidh


What are they trying to hide...? I think the fact is they just simply don't know.
I say lets send a probe right in to a sunspot and find out

Originally posted by Legion2024
reply to post by maxella1

 

Just because it is unbelievable does not mean it is not true.

I was under the impression that the sun is kinda hollow or more like "Pure vacuum" on the inside and the sunspots are weak points of this vacuums bubble and the light and gasses are sucked inwards and not outwards hence why there are dark spots.

Hmm who knows.

No, the Sun is gaseous and becomes denser and denser right down to its core (where it may even become solid).

The reason Sunspots appear darker is that they do not emit or transmit light as readily as the Chromosphere which wraps the outer layer of the Sun (they are actually bright, but not as bright as the Chromosphere).

When the Chromosphere is opened by the magnetic field lines from within the Sun converging, we can see through the bright outer layer into the less bright interior. This is what we call a Sunspot.

Because Hydrogen is the lightest atom, it would rise to the top layers of the Sun. Oxygen is heavier and is likely to exist lower in the stellar atmosphere. At the levels of heat present in the Sun, the water molecule should break into its constituent atoms (it turns to a plasma at about 12,000 Kelvin, and would likely disassociate to H2O, OH, O & H ions, initially, then these ions would further break down over time until all H2O had depleted).

I find it highly unlikely that molecular water exists in the Sun.

Water appears to be one of the most abundant molecules in the Universe. It dominates the environment of the Earth and is a main constituent of numerous planets, moons and comets. On a far greater scale it possibly contributes to the so-called "missing mass" of the Universe and may initiate the birth of stars inside the giant molecular clouds. This site gives a brief description of water and ice environments with an emphasis on their possible origin and subsequent development in the Solar System. Expanding the scope of hydrology to cover phenomena encountered on other celestial bodies is postulated and discussed.

Water is everywhere.

reply to post by maxella1

Here a link and quote from a NASA article regarding water vapor in sunspots.

SUNSPOTS FROM A TO B - SOLAR MAGNETISM

Sunspots can be so cold that water vapor 'steam' can even form within them! In 1995, astronomers Lloyd Wallace, William Livingston and Kenneth Hinkle at the National Solar Observatory in Tucson, Arizona worked with collaborators to obtain infrared spectra that proved that water molecules could exist in the umbral regions of some sunspots.

In addition, here is a link to a 1997 scientific paper discussing how water vapor was identified in sunspots.

High-Temperature Rotational Transitions of Water in Sunspot and Laboratory Spectra

Yes, sunspots contain water vapor (not liquid water).

Best regards,
Z

Gawsh... It sounds like a complete farce to me.

The sun's been burning for MILLIONS and MILLIONS of years.

It doesn't matter how much water was on the sun originally, it wouldn't last the first 10 earth years.

Also, I wasn't aware that the sun had plants growing on it to create the oxygen necessary for water.

Come on guys, where are your heads.

I have to say that I have an extremely hard time giving this "finding" any credence whatsoever ... even commonsense says it should be impossible.

Anyway, we have the following average temps for sunspots:

Sunspots are "cool" regions, only 3800 K
Source

Although they are at temperatures of roughly 3000–4500 K (2727–4227 °C)
Source

and then we have the following temps at which water vapour will completely dissociate into it's components of hydrogen and oxygen:

The water and the diatomic hydrogen and oxygen species completely dissociate into H(atomic hydrogen) and O (atomic oxygen) above about 3500 K (approx. 3200°C) under equilibrium conditions at 1 mm Hg absolute pressure.
Source


Manufacture of hydrogen from high temperature steam
United States Patent 3901669

A process for preparing hydrogen from steam dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen by heating it at a temperature above 1,500°C., passing the dissociated steam through a first chamber having a wall in common with a second chamber, which common wall is permeable to oxygen, and cooling the gaseous effluent from said first chamber to yield a hydrogen rich stream.
Source


So based on the above, it would appear that the average temp of sunspots is higher than the temp required to completely break down water vapour into hydrogen and oxygen,

And on top of that, you also have to take into account the incredibly intense and continuous ultraviolet bombardment that would rip apart any water molecule.

Water (liquid or vapour) on the sun's surface ? Don't think so ...