The brainwashing displayed here is unbelievable

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by petrus4

 

That being said, the fact that some regular citizens are pushing for it seems to suggest that it might be coming.

There is no MIGHT... it IS coming, ready or not...

Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj has been shown by an Angel that Obama will lead America into captivity in the same way that Israel did. This mans predictions ALWAYS come to pass and have been for many years.

Obama and Days of captivity

Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj

"As I was praying, an angel of the Lord appeared to me. the chief prince angel of the United States of America. And he visited me that morning, and he told me Obama will be elected to office. I was shocked. I said, “That’s not what we want.” … Then he said, “Days of captivity are appointed for this nation, and he is the man who will carry it out.” … And I pleaded with the angel; I said, “Look, how can that be? He said, “You don’t know what is actually going on in the Christian tradition in this nation. They don’t actually pray, taking hold of God, but they are just playing church, playing praying. And he said, “This is the message I want you to bring to the church: days of captivity.”

"So the first message that was given to me is “days of captivity”. Now the second message is this: “days of persecution”. This is the second word the angel brought unto me."

"Tell them these two things. The nation will go into captivity. The church will go into captivity, but it is for good.
"So how to purify the church? So God has to put someone in office who will make life difficult for us. And when life is made difficult for us, we will be forced to bend our knees and cry out to God…."

Source: Link to PDF

One example of the accuracy of these predictions is here:

Decreed by the Watchers

Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj
"So when the angel of the United States of America came and stood before me, …I tremble and quake every time I see an angel of a nation, he told me, “An awesome judgment is going to come upon America very soon.” An awesome judgment.

"My dear brothers and sisters, I tell you one more truth today. As the chief prince angel of the United States of America stood before me, he said, “Like the angels that went out to spy out Sodom and Gomorrah, a host of angels are walking the length and breadth of your country, spying out the land in a similar manner to how the two angels did (at Sodom).”

"I was in the nation of Indonesia... On the first day that I was in that nation, the chief prince angel over Indonesia entered into my room, and he said, “Whatever has happened in this nation has been decreed and ordered by the watchers in Heaven. They decreed and they said, let there be a change.” And overnight, the dictator of thirty-two years was overthrown. Overnight -- it did not happen over a long period of time. Overnight, he was overthrown -- decreed by the Watchers...." "You (America) are in that stage (or situation) right now, and your only appeal is to the Heavenly Father. The final pardon is in His hands."

Source: PROPHETIC MESSAGE TO THE CHURCH

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by satron

 

Yeah, link the threads.

OK. I'm probably going to get into strife over this from the staff; I hope not.

It Is Time To Police The Internet.

There are multiple eugenics threads; it seems to be the meme of the moment here, right now. Below is the one I saw, though.

License to Live.

Doesn't look like brainwashing as much as it's just some people's opinions. You're free to chime in with your thoughts. They looked like they didn't get too much attention. What, they got 4 flags between them? I think you're a little over reacting to ideas that you feel threatened by.

Originally posted by CB328

government-loving BS

So you are unilaterally declaring that everything about government is BS, and you call others extremists?

When one advocates for the government to insert their hands into my underpants at airports (happened to me, he didn't grab my junk but it wasn't THAT far away either!), electronically photograph my unimpressive genitals through my clothes and possibly store the picture? Hell yeah! Burn in hell you fascists!

reply to post by petrus4

I've always felt that the single most disturbing characteristic of this forum, is the number of people here, who are extremely transparent about their lack of desire for personal freedom; and even their desire for the direct opposite. Said people seem to desperately crave having some giant, centralised authority controlling every element of their lives.

Yah, I see that too. There are those that regularly appear on threads about police brutality, civil rights, and "surveillance". I find myself in discussion with those who, if not directly supporting the state, then at least discredit the victims of the state as though they are at fault for getting "violated" by authority.

It's too late in my opinion. All the complaints are past tense. We are and have been stripped of our constitutional guaranteed rights and privileges for some time now. Decades at the very least.

Off the gold standard and on inflationary paper fiat currency.
Relieved of our right to "bear" arms freely and openly. Try it and see what happens.
Freedom of speech laws pertaining to redress of grievances and protest or civil disobedience. Gathering and petition, etc.
Justice system is broke, there are no longer any laws regarding detention, quick and speedy trial (by jury) of our peers. Sentences are longer and longer for pettier crimes. Innocent until proven guilty?
Free to move about without fear of profiling or random stops and searches including confiscation of personal property without due process.
Government of, by, for the people is gone, replaced by long tenure "representatives" who give sway to mega corporations thru "super pac" funding of their reelections.
Morass of laws and restrictions to starting a business or livelihood without first having a ton of capital to pay for lisencing and permits. Starting from scratch is near impossible due to monopolistic top down approach to building a privately owned business.
I could go into taxes and banking control of the economy (your money)...

This is a short list. Others might have more. There is never any going back on any of these. The laws of the land will only continue to choke and strangle you ever more (a little bit at a time) in regards to these issues. Those who defend the system in charge of this fascist "regime" are either ignorant to where it will lead, or part of it.

reply to post by petrus4



I have NEVER come across any one before who appears so paranoid about government

as you are, after all they were voted in by a majority. (can't please all the people all the

time)

Just what is it you want to do that you are not allowed to do

As i do not live in the US i may be speaking out of turn, but it is my experience that

people who are always maintaining they want to be "free" just don't want to pay taxes

or work to pay their way!...and thats fine BUT what about the utilities they expect to use

eg. sewage, clean water, refuse disposal cleaning, libraries etc.the all require to be paid

for...ideally by every one. Then there is the financial payments made to those out of work,

the disabled, pensions, care homes, health, education, policing....I don't suppose those

employed in those areas are prepared to work for free....the money has to come from

somewhere?? (taxes)

And then when you are "free" you are not entirely "free" because any decent human being has

a moral obligation to help and be aware of the needs of others, the young, the old, the infirm,

the needy, the homeless...Thats life



PS. I believe i am "free" AND part of the system But as you beleive no one is free but

they are too blind to see it, could you point out to me where i am being controlled. BECAUSE

IF i find out that any one is controlling me i will be livid

reply to post by Murgatroid


......ok what the heck are you talking about? Did you write your own Gospel type of book or something? now angels have rooms? and more importantly watch over nations? hmmm must of been what they talked about at church when i was asleep.....



EDIT: ok so i just got schooled by my co-worker on this subject....my bad!

I don't want the government in my life any more than is needed to maintain a prosperous and functional society where I can live and raise my child.

That said the world changes and some things that weren't issues 200 years ago are very real now. We are facing overpopulation even as the worlds resources dwindle. So the question that must be asked is "Does my right to have as many children as I want (leaving alone for now whether or not I should be able to have kids even if I have to mooch off strangers to feed them) trump the next generations right to live in a world where population does not exceed carrying capacity?"

There are many other examples where personal rights of choice are increasingly slamming up against societys' right to prosper and even live a healthy life. I'm not talking about right to free speech or press. I'm talking about rights that allow me to consume far more energy than needed to be comfortable just because I can afford it. I'm talking about my right to have 8 kids then mooch off you to feed them. My right to have 8 kids which means my kids or theirs will live in an overpopulated world where it may come to pass where some of them may be forced to forego any children so as to reduce population and ensure continued prosperity.

I don't want to see drones in my sky, or my guns taken away. But I do want to see a reexamination of what rights are. Should I have a right to make imprudent decisions that negatively impacts others, even following generations? Or should people have the right to live in a clean environment, where safe food is plentiful enough to feed them, where energy is available, and where resources aren't wasted on personal waste?

reply to post by petrus4

If you do want these things, then maybe the real threat to human survival isn't the terrorists, or the child pornographers. Maybe it's you.

You're whole post is demeaning, and the above line is downright cruel, and unwarranted for those who are concerned about crime.

Maybe your the one who has the "dark" issues to hide, considering you are so paranoid about policing.

I just want the people who care about others to have ways to stop people who commit crimes. Simple really. To twist it around to make it seem like something else is sinister, is telling of your character.

I have asked you honestly how you would deal with it, if you or someone you loved was a victim of serious crime perpetrated through the net? How would you feel when you were told,"sorry , but the way the internet works its very difficult to track these individuals within certain circumstances and bring them to justice"

Hate to break it to you, but you are just using your own brand of brainwashing, to try to get people to see it your way.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

Maybe your the one who has the "dark" issues to hide, considering you are so paranoid about policing.

And you have locks on your doors and windows too, right? What are you hiding? If privacy is an issue of paranoia, then why do you accuse others of having paranoid issues because they want to keep their personal property private? Only nosy, do-gooding, grabastic, busy bodies want to peek in your business.

I can only assume that it is because you do not have practical experience of what living in an authoritarian society means.

Everyone alive today have practical experience of what living in an authoritarian 'society' (this word would need to be defined, as in legalese it has a very specific meaning, which differs from the 'everyday' comprehension of the word) means.

Where do you think we have lived for all our lives (at least during this incarnation)? Do you think this world is not authoritarian?

The thing about authority is - that it always exists, but people don't usually know where it comes from. It comes from the people. People have willingly, voluntarily GIVEN the authority of their affairs to the government and the police (policy enforcer corporations, no longer peace officers).

If you have a SIN or SSN (Social Insurance Number or Social Security Number), and you think you HAVE to have it, you have been duped. If you have registered ANYTHING to the government, you have voluntarily given the allodial title (the real ownership) of those things away. Yes, even your children.

The system creates a birth certificate, or child's registration, when your child is born. Then you, as the parents, consent to it being done, and sign it. Then your child will be indoctrinated to believe that is their identity (in other words, duped to performing a joinder between the real, living human - and the dead, artificial 'person' on paper).

Now, the system that created this 'person' of course owns it, and can impose ANY rules or fines or demands on it they wish. After all, it's their creation, in their system. The child, after reaching adulthood, willingly performs a 'joinder' (by signing 'applications', 'registrations' and 'submissions'), so they are legally and lawfully indistinguishable from the 'person', which means that now suddenly the living, human being HAS to comply with the rules and fines and demands.

It's like someone asks if you will sign a paper that lets them hit you in the head with a hammer, and you willingly do it. After that, he hits you in the head with a hammer, and you get angry - what did you do that for? Well, shouldn't you have thought of that BEFORE signing?

But this is the situation.. people sign FIRST, (consent to being governed by acts and statutes, SO they will now have the force of law for those people) and then complain, when taxes, fines, demands, or other system-induced problems have been imposed on them.

Well, duh! What did you expect?

So yes, we have lived in 'authoritarian' 'society' for a long, long time, but the stupidest part about it is that people have willingly given the authority to the authoriarians.. instead of keeping it themselves.

Did you know that the law doesn't (and cannot) require you (the living human being) to register your child? If you don't register, then the government CANNOT take your child away - lawfully anyway (and legality doesn't enter into it, if the child is not governed by acts and statutes). And they can't lawfully (again, legality doesn't apply) force your child to go to public schools, and you can decide when the child has his/her holidays, the government can't. Because the child is then not governed by the so-called 'government'!

But having registered your child(ren), what do you think would happen, if you tried to remove your child from the school in the middle of a semester, when it's not an 'accepted holiday', and take the whole family for a nice holiday trip? The police would hunt you down and force your child back to school, and hit you with a fine (or worse).

How can that be, if they don't own your child? It can't, they do. And you (the parents) willingly gave your child to them by registering him/her.

They can do whatever they want to your car as well, if you have registered it.. do you really think someone who doesn't own your car, could just come and take it away from you lawfully? Of course not. You have registered it, so you no longer own it.

People who talk about authority and authoriarianism, should really familiarize themselves with what authority really is, where authority really comes from, and how the 'authoriarians' get it from people. Or how they get authority OVER people, perhaps.

This is a good place to start:

yourstrawman.com...

Also, in youtube, there is a good about 5 minute video clip that explains the basics of this deceit. You can find it by searching for "Meet your strawman".

Originally posted by Erectus
I don't want the government in my life any more than is needed to maintain a prosperous and functional society where I can live and raise my child.

That said the world changes and some things that weren't issues 200 years ago are very real now. We are facing overpopulation even as the worlds resources dwindle. So the question that must be asked is "Does my right to have as many children as I want (leaving alone for now whether or not I should be able to have kids even if I have to mooch off strangers to feed them) trump the next generations right to live in a world where population does not exceed carrying capacity?"

There are many other examples where personal rights of choice are increasingly slamming up against societys' right to prosper and even live a healthy life. I'm not talking about right to free speech or press. I'm talking about rights that allow me to consume far more energy than needed to be comfortable just because I can afford it. I'm talking about my right to have 8 kids then mooch off you to feed them. My right to have 8 kids which means my kids or theirs will live in an overpopulated world where it may come to pass where some of them may be forced to forego any children so as to reduce population and ensure continued prosperity.

I don't want to see drones in my sky, or my guns taken away. But I do want to see a reexamination of what rights are. Should I have a right to make imprudent decisions that negatively impacts others, even following generations? Or should people have the right to live in a clean environment, where safe food is plentiful enough to feed them, where energy is available, and where resources aren't wasted on personal waste?

What gets me is how people like you speak so matter-of-factly. Have you personally witnessed or have inside knowledge of just how much resources are available on the planet? NO YOU DO NOT AND HAVE NOT! You are spewing what you have been told or have read somewhere. If you have proof of all these "facts" other than what others have said, whip it out! And I mean something tangible that I can see with my own eyes or hold in my own two hands.

We are already engaged in unsustainable farming practices to feed the world. Erosion and depletion of soils is almost universal in modern agriculture. A large proportion of civilizations on Earth perished from over production of crops. All of that is a fact.

Agricultural and industrial use of water has caused many of the worlds aquifers to become depleted, even as glaciers in places like Chile (where glacial melt provides 80% of human water usage) melt away. These are facts.

To keep up with feeding the world (remember millions a year actually starve to death, a number higher than anytime in recorded history) we are resorting to GMO crops which have potentially dangerous consequences. These are facts.

The oceans are being fished to depletion. This is a fact.

Energy needs are growing at an annual rate of about 3%. As the lesser developed nations rise this figure is expected to increase. Every year the world releases more pollution into the atmosphere and oceans than the previous year. These are facts.

Maybe green house emissions are not responsible for global warming. What about the millions of tons of heavy metals, arsenic, and carcinogens that are released? Do these not harm health?

Speaking of pollution, I don't think people really understand just how thin our atmosphere is. If the atmosphere were laid down in the horizontal where you could walk across it, it would take you just 30 minutes to walk the section inwhich most humans can survive (10,000 ft). After 3 hours you would have travelled the part of the atmosphere where the vast majority of polution ends up. After 15 hours you would be in low Earth orbit.

Natural habitat is being destroyed at the rate of acres per minute and replaced with intensive farms and pavement. This is a fact.

By 2050 the worlds population is expected to reach 9 billion.

The use of current energy production methods needed to provide power is proving to be very detrimental to our lives. Aforementioned pollution, as well as the recent nuclear disaster impacts the health and well being of millions. Official government estimates puts world wide deaths and illness due to energy production pollution in the millions annually. These are facts.

The pentagon reports that dwindling resources and rising populations will create instability around the world this century. Wars will be fought for water and arable land.

These are a few of the reasons that we must realize that humanitys' collective right to health and prosperity trumps my own selfish right to breed indescrimently and waste resources because it makes me look cool or rich, or because I just don't care, or else am not bright enough to recognize.

Again, I stand by personal rights and freedoms. However, in a shrinking world our personal rights do not exceed humanitys' rights to reasonable health and atleast the availability of food for every person born. It so happens that many personal rights that we cherish most as Americans are unaffected by applying simple societal planning to our future. It is only the most selfish rights that would be effected.

AND....on what basis should a person have the right to breed children if they cannot feed them? How does your personal right to breed exceed that future childs right to be fed? By having kids you cannot feed you are forcing me to feed your kids. Admittedly, I do feel a little obligated to not see a child starve. But, my obligation is secondary to yours, as the parent, to have enough sense to not have more children than you can feed.

Your resistence to such a view is predicated upon the society inwhich you were indoctrinated. The future of humanity, though, will be dependent on us willing to embrace social engineering based on scientific number crunching. Why does that seem so much worse than what we have now; social engineering based on political expediency?

Originally posted by petrus4
I don't want this thread blackballed into the Rant forum. I've posted it here for a reason. It's about a social issue, and I want it to get exposure.

At the moment, I'm aware of three different threads, in which people are openly advocating such things as eugenics, and the increased involvement of law enforcement regarding the Internet.

I've always felt that the single most disturbing characteristic of this forum, is the number of people here, who are extremely transparent about their lack of desire for personal freedom; and even their desire for the direct opposite. Said people seem to desperately crave having some giant, centralised authority controlling every element of their lives.

I'm serious. Some of you honestly seem to want to live in a scenario very similar to Germany under the Nazis. I really don't understand why that is, either. I can only assume that it is because you do not have practical experience of what living in an authoritarian society means. I don't either, admittedly; but the apparent difference between us, is that I know that it's an experience that I also do not want.

The other thing that's even more shocking, is that despite the levels of cowardice I see here; the rationalisation, justification, and apologies for invasive, fascist government agencies such as the TSA and DHS...what is even worse, is how truly justified some of the people who hold these opinions feel.they are, in having them. You are derided as being immature, irrational, or mentally ill if you think otherwise.

I do not want someone else controlling every minute of my life. I do not want to be a slave. I do not want lawmaking ability to be held exclusively by psychopaths, who crave control, purely for control's own sake, and who literally do not sleep in their continuing quest to obtain it. I do not want a scenario where government is able to track and monitor everywhere I go, every moment of every day; and most of all, I do not want to have to explain myself to someone who is sufficiently intellectually disabled that they do not understand why such a level of surveillance is potentially harmful to them.

If you do want these things, then maybe the real threat to human survival isn't the terrorists, or the child pornographers.

Maybe it's you.

edit on 17-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

quoted for edit safety.



OP i agree with you 100%


im not going to bring anything specific up, but i know what your talking about and it hurts, not only that others disagree, which is not that much of a big deal,

but the fact that people disagree with what you wrote here, eventually effects those who agree.


because if 90% of everyone likes being controlled and told what to do all the time,

then that 10% who want FREEDOM and happiness and a life free from controlling nazi's and unfair laws and evil oppressive government,

eventually lose their freedom because everyone else just pushes it on them.

There's a lot on here, and these types of forums that supports a sheep agenda.
Perhaps its normal people with big heads and attitude issues. But, im starting to become seriously disappointed in the lack of reading skills some people seem to have. As in people seem to skim the words and post replies that seemingly fit an agenda to direct the thread or put words or assumptions to replies that weren't there.
It used to be much more different and pleasing here.

Originally posted by Erectus
We are already engaged in unsustainable farming practices to feed the world. Erosion and depletion of soils is almost universal in modern agriculture. A large proportion of civilizations on Earth perished from over production of crops. All of that is a fact.

Agricultural and industrial use of water has caused many of the worlds aquifers to become depleted, even as glaciers in places like Chile (where glacial melt provides 80% of human water usage) melt away. These are facts.

To keep up with feeding the world (remember millions a year actually starve to death, a number higher than anytime in recorded history) we are resorting to GMO crops which have potentially dangerous consequences. These are facts.

The oceans are being fished to depletion. This is a fact.

Energy needs are growing at an annual rate of about 3%. As the lesser developed nations rise this figure is expected to increase. Every year the world releases more pollution into the atmosphere and oceans than the previous year. These are facts.

Maybe green house emissions are not responsible for global warming. What about the millions of tons of heavy metals, arsenic, and carcinogens that are released? Do these not harm health?

Speaking of pollution, I don't think people really understand just how thin our atmosphere is. If the atmosphere were laid down in the horizontal where you could walk across it, it would take you just 30 minutes to walk the section inwhich most humans can survive (10,000 ft). After 3 hours you would have travelled the part of the atmosphere where the vast majority of polution ends up. After 15 hours you would be in low Earth orbit.

Natural habitat is being destroyed at the rate of acres per minute and replaced with intensive farms and pavement. This is a fact.

By 2050 the worlds population is expected to reach 9 billion.

The use of current energy production methods needed to provide power is proving to be very detrimental to our lives. Aforementioned pollution, as well as the recent nuclear disaster impacts the health and well being of millions. Official government estimates puts world wide deaths and illness due to energy production pollution in the millions annually. These are facts.

The pentagon reports that dwindling resources and rising populations will create instability around the world this century. Wars will be fought for water and arable land.

These are a few of the reasons that we must realize that humanitys' collective right to health and prosperity trumps my own selfish right to breed indescrimently and waste resources because it makes me look cool or rich, or because I just don't care, or else am not bright enough to recognize.

Again, I stand by personal rights and freedoms. However, in a shrinking world our personal rights do not exceed humanitys' rights to reasonable health and atleast the availability of food for every person born. It so happens that many personal rights that we cherish most as Americans are unaffected by applying simple societal planning to our future. It is only the most selfish rights that would be effected.

AND....on what basis should a person have the right to breed children if they cannot feed them? How does your personal right to breed exceed that future childs right to be fed? By having kids you cannot feed you are forcing me to feed your kids. Admittedly, I do feel a little obligated to not see a child starve. But, my obligation is secondary to yours, as the parent, to have enough sense to not have more children than you can feed.

Your resistence to such a view is predicated upon the society inwhich you were indoctrinated. The future of humanity, though, will be dependent on us willing to embrace social engineering based on scientific number crunching. Why does that seem so much worse than what we have now; social engineering based on political expediency?

edit on 17-6-2012 by Erectus because: (no reason given)

I feel so very sorry for you in that you have no mind of your own. All that you are capable of is spouting what you have been fed! Again I say where is YOUR proof of any "facts" that you so confidently state?

Originally posted by petrus4

I do not want someone else controlling every minute of my life. I do not want to be a slave. I do not want lawmaking ability to be held exclusively by psychopaths, who crave control, purely for control's own sake, and who literally do not sleep in their continuing quest to obtain it.

The human ego knows no bounds in its quest for control, and in this passage, you exhibit an acute desire to control your own life, a sign of what passes for a "healthy ego" in this unhealthy age. I suggest you examine your statement concerning "lawmaking ability". The very concept that human beings can create laws to which existence conforms is pure vanity; indeed, it's insanity! YOUR remedy and recourse is to free yourSELF from the bonds you "do not want". All are equal before the Infinite, and we all have lots to learn. Going "back" to a more kindly "representative government" will not achieve your desired result of freedom. Or at least, that's what you seem to be claiming to want.

I do not want a scenario where government is able to track and monitor everywhere I go, every moment of every day; and most of all, I do not want to have to explain myself to someone who is sufficiently intellectually disabled that they do not understand why such a level of surveillance is potentially harmful to them.

No one said you have to explain yourself to them. Simply state that their "challenges" fall below your threshold of rigorous inquiry.

If you do want these things, then maybe the real threat to human survival isn't the terrorists, or the child pornographers.

Maybe it's you.

edit on 17-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

Or maybe the threat is all in your head.

I completely agree with you, op. In fact im a trucker and meet a lot of peol
Ple in my travels. The two notable groups are the brainwashed people who want to live in nazi germany, and the.conspiracy theorists. Infact i meet both to quite the interesting extreme.

Originally posted by petrus4

I do not want someone else controlling every minute of my life. I do not want to be a slave. I do not want lawmaking ability to be held exclusively by psychopaths, who crave control, purely for control's own sake, and who literally do not sleep in their continuing quest to obtain it. I do not want a scenario where government is able to track and monitor everywhere I go, every moment of every day; and most of all, I do not want to have to explain myself to someone who is sufficiently intellectually disabled that they do not understand why such a level of surveillance is potentially harmful to them.

Your post and your title have nothing to do with each other. Your title is misleading in other words.

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

Brainwashing is a rather extreme definition to get your point across. Whatever that may be. This is probably one reason why your thread got moved to the rant section. It was emotionally fueled with no links provided to back up the “facts” that you stated. A good case in point would be all the children and adults that are pulled out of cults and have to be de-programmed because they were, in fact, brainwashed. There is a cottage industry of professionals who make a living out of doing this. Are you comapring the American public with people who have truly been brainwashed? I hope not.

What you're talking about is a simple case of shaping peoples' perceptions. This is typically done in the business world through creative marketing and it is done the world over every single day. Whenever you see ads for guns or diapers or anything else what you're seeing are companies marketing their products to you. They're telling you what you want, why you want it and why you're better off having it rather than having the same thing that their competitor has.

This is essentially what the government is doing, only on a different stage with different players and different "products". They're marketing laws like internet security and eugenics, but instead of hiring a PR firm they enlist special interest groups. The ones that lobby senators to pass certain laws. The "product" that they're selling is a law and they're "marketing" it in such a way as to make people believe that they're better off with it than without it. Political business if you will. And it works here just as it does in the business world because, really, how many people do you know who actually take the time to prove the claims that businesses or politicians make when they're marketing their products? Very few.

This why it's very easy to shape peoples' perceptions. Most people don't do their homework to see if they're being lied to or otherwise manipulated. This is also why it might APPEAR to you that people are being brainwashed when in reality they're simply letting their perceptions be shaped by inaction on their part. They take what's given to them and this, I think, is what you're so upset about. I understand your frustration, I can relate, But you really do need to settle down. People who are "asleep" in the way you suggest don't need a bucket of cold water splashed on their face. Easy does it.

That, and just because you think something is wrong for the populace doesn't make it so. It's simply your opinion. I'm very opinionated but you're not going to see me here, or anywhere else, forcing my agenda on people. What you will see is me stating my point of view, why I believe what I do and giving topics a certain slant that's seldom seen. I shape peoples' perceptions by offering them some that they probably haven't had before. I try to change peoples' perceptions on things. I don't try change their minds for them. That's a step THEY have to take themselves. Otherwise, I'd be brainwashing them. That's why I'm effective at getting what I want. In my case, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. In the case of the government, they market what they do in much the same way that I would, only their intentions are not in the best interest of the people they're influencing.

Not only am I not going to sell you something you don't want, I'm not going to sell you something you don't need. That, and mine is a product that competitors just don't have. I have a lock on the market, my intent is true, and we both know that. The only question that remains is, is the product good enough as it stands or does it need to be fine tuned more? Personally, I'm putting my faith in the assumption that the customer knows what they want and I'll sell them that. The Government should take a cue from that kind of "business model". If they did, they wouldn't have so many people against them and they would still be able to "market their wares".

The mark of a good salesman is giving the customer what they want. The Government may not do that, but I do.

Originally posted by petrus4
I don't want this thread blackballed into the Rant forum. I've posted it here for a reason. It's about a social issue, and I want it to get exposure.

At the moment, I'm aware of three different threads, in which people are openly advocating such things as eugenics, and the increased involvement of law enforcement regarding the Internet.

I've always felt that the single most disturbing characteristic of this forum, is the number of people here, who are extremely transparent about their lack of desire for personal freedom; and even their desire for the direct opposite. Said people seem to desperately crave having some giant, centralised authority controlling every element of their lives.

I'm serious. Some of you honestly seem to want to live in a scenario very similar to Germany under the Nazis. I really don't understand why that is, either. I can only assume that it is because you do not have practical experience of what living in an authoritarian society means. I don't either, admittedly; but the apparent difference between us, is that I know that it's an experience that I also do not want.

The other thing that's even more shocking, is that despite the levels of cowardice I see here; the rationalisation, justification, and apologies for invasive, fascist government agencies such as the TSA and DHS...what is even worse, is how truly justified some of the people who hold these opinions feel.they are, in having them. You are derided as being immature, irrational, or mentally ill if you think otherwise.

I do not want someone else controlling every minute of my life. I do not want to be a slave. I do not want lawmaking ability to be held exclusively by psychopaths, who crave control, purely for control's own sake, and who literally do not sleep in their continuing quest to obtain it. I do not want a scenario where government is able to track and monitor everywhere I go, every moment of every day; and most of all, I do not want to have to explain myself to someone who is sufficiently intellectually disabled that they do not understand why such a level of surveillance is potentially harmful to them.

If you do want these things, then maybe the real threat to human survival isn't the terrorists, or the child pornographers.

Maybe it's you.

edit on 17-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

I could not agree more. Many people believe what they see plastered on the Tele, "It is bad men in a cave" yadda yadda not even realizing Al-Qeada is a CIA creation at it's roots.

'If the CIA MI6 etc did not exist, there would be no Terrorist.' -Ex-CIA Whistle Blower

The history of false flags, Race Baiting, and centuries of Divide Conquer tactics has all been the morbid creation of some twisted psychopath in the 'a' government. Creating the threat to provide the solution and it is scary how many fall for it. They create the 'visual' in the minds of the idiot with their owned and operated media. Even when CNN's Anderson Cooper was recently caught red-handed 'waggin the dog' giving undeniable proof of this yet, people still do not see if for what it is.

Obama promised to pay for everything. 'Sit on your ass, I will even give you cell phones.' The decades of indoctrination has so many blissfully ignorant they do not want to stand on their own two feet and now WANT a mommy daddy government.

IMO
This short clip explains it quite well.

Oh noes people are saying to clean up the internets.

Well what a shame, it needs doing, would you go and visit a house knowing the owner has massive amounts of child porn there and he periodically serves it up to people that knock the door?.
Me personally, i wouldn't and i don't feel the fear required to use anonymising software, and i don't have personal habits that require me to use tor or .onion domains.
The undernet is a breeding ground of illegality of the worst kind, i understand that it is not only being used for this purpose, what do you have to lose if the internet is scrubbed of CP and the ability to hide it?.
That is what i am advocating, as for being brainwashed, yes it's true, my mind is clean, i may have one or two bad habits, but they certainly don't involve children, or, wanting to protect/or even having, the ability to access their misery.
As for someone like me and your rights, as far as im concerned you don't have the right to to protect something that harms children, simple.
The worst kinds of behaviour, and the people that indulge it, require anonymity to function, this also means this ability is causing harm to untold numbers of children the world over.
Children need protecting any way we can, especially from the worst kind of predations, users policing the internet is obviously not going to happen (save for one instance of anonymous doing something), and doing nothing is not an option.
I Just do not want to see it get any worse.