can i tell you something?

and for the record i've only come back to even look at this thread twice and i'm just now seeing all the stars and flags. i totally thought i'd get yelled at and my post would quickly sink to page two where it would never be seen again.

at least that gives me a little hope that there are still some members who feel the same.

it really confuses me that so many here are so pro big corporation.... and that's what funds the "global warming is a hoax" junk science. i've watched it progress over the last couple of years to a level of inexplicable insanity.

AND.... does anyone remember when the title of this forum used to have a subtitle??

You are right, the conspiracy is the coverup of climate change. It is bigger than most think, nobody wants to pay for the changes. Climate change is real and it's going to slap us in the face. It has been made worse by mans actions. Climate change or as they used to call it, global warming, has to be addressed soon and so do our actions of poluting everything. We need to quit making chemicals that aren't natural and lessen the use of plastic .

reply to post by rickymouse


it is nice to know some members still feel this way. i see so many posts derailed by rudeness. claiming the stupidity of falling for the government cap and trade conspiracy. the big corps are the ones with all the money and the extreme profit greed. once you have a gazillion dollars you will do anything to maintain that massive profit and that includes throwing the earth under the bus.

and back to my original post. the earth is like our bodies. put crap in it and it's not going to function right. eat right and exercise, don't smoke, don't drink to excess, don't live on mc donalds cheezzz burgers and you'll be better off (not a guarantee of course). why is that so hard to fathom?

Nobody really fights climate change.

I mean really climate changes happens all the time; throughout all of history it's been happening. What we are basing our figures of normal climate is just a recent slice of the history of climate.

Anyone who argues otherwise is someone who is not worth arguing with...

What people argue about is whether man has caused it.

I believe it doesn't matter. Life no matter what happens climate wise will thrive, it always has. A huge 6 km asteroid hit the earth and life survived.

IMO, humans couldn't do enough at this time to destroy the planet. We could harm the existing thriving life now, but life will just change and would be just as good. It would in essence evolve...

Hence why to me, the fact that people say evolution is not true is much more of an ignorant and worrying topic. Evolution has been proven time and time again, like climate change, and people who cannot use braincells to compute these scientifically proven facts are not worth worrying about.

It's really strange when you think about it...

Pred...

reply to post by pasiphae


The only thing all of our pollution will do is destroy our quality of life not the earth. The earth has seen very drastic climate changes in its history and humans have never had a hand in that so what makes you think today is any different?? Did man made pollution cause the ice age?? or the drastic change in our topography before today?? the answer is no we did not. .

There is climate change be we are not in control of it as many of you think we do.

I don't believe we are hunky dory on this planet with the way we handle resources but at the same time I am not arrogant enough to say we will single handedly kill the earth

reply to post by pasiphae


S & F

You are right, the average person doesn't care.

They are self centered, which is how our society is now raising people and short sighted.

We are ruining our beautiful planet BIG TIME.

But what is the solution?

Ervin Lazlo has a few books out, but most people woudl rather yack on their cell phones, go to soccer matches, watch the Simpsons or Harry Potter films..............so what does one do?

I pick up garbage as I move about the planet!

Here is my take because I think in multiple layers. Climate change is occuring across the planetary spectrum. Currently Voyager I and II are managing to give us a better understanding of the heliosphere of our solar system, especially right now. The heliosphere is distorted and egg-shaped as a result of a highly magnetized interstellar cloud that is bearing down on us. This "Interstellar Fluff" as they call it is coming to us from the actual center of the Galaxy or at least from that general direction. It is massive and there is no two ways about it our system is going to be enveloped by it. It is happening right now and will continue to happen for quite some time. No one will escape for what ever that is worth.

I am a firm believer in the Electric Universe Model. One can only speculate on the Fluff, the Sun, and our own planet as a connected, functioning albeit dysfunctional system. Seriously, this has been going on and like our own systems everything is accummulative.

Climate, well let's see if I can overlook the fact that the GOM fiasco just killed the ocean and likely has a direct effect on the Gulf Stream, if there even is one! The conveyor might just be so distorted now, I don't know, but I am looking at a "100-year" storm slamming the UK right now, as I am typing. They are expecting two months worth of rain within two days. It is a monster!

Yikes on the earth slippage and rate of rotation (regardless of how insignificant any deems this) during two recent earthquakes, Chile and Indonesia, and Japan itself was moved!

Magnetic poles to me coincide with the Sun, the Sun is Fun!

Well, I cannot overlook the fact that we just irradiated ourselves beyond understanding and the real kicker is that no one can do a damn thing about it and it is only going to get worse for all living species on the planet. Furthermore there just might be a cover-up in regards to our own failed Technology in Nuclear Energy and no one wants anyone to get whole milk, and money talks and dictates what and how we are to accept it in our lives!

So much for picking up the trash!

Climate changes, weather changes, everyone knows that. The earth goes through cycles of ice ages and warm ages. At some point the earth will experience an ice cap spreading from the poles, it's part of the cycle, not a disaster.

Most climate change advocates are hysterically beating the drum about humans as the cause, led by the ilk like Al Gore. Exactly like religions of old where human behavior was blamed for the lack of rain or volcano eruption, where someone needed to be sacrificed to appease the gods.

Instead of the life of a young virgin, they're asking you to sacrifice your lifestyle, and pay a few bucks to some carbon credit scheme to make Al Gore rich. Therefore the skepticism and humiliation that climate change advocates experience.

reply to post by ThatGuy45


So, have you given up your computer? Your life of plastic?, you don't buy any more milk, you don't use rubber/tires? so you are close to Earth living in a cave, with mosquitoes all around you, with no AC, no electricity and no heater? With no shoes on your feet, a watch in your hand, an ipod/iphone or whatever the newest gadget is?...

I am SURE most, if not all, of you do not fall in the category of "living with nature".

Do I like that pollutants, REAL ONES not imagined ones like CO2, are being dumped every day in rivers, lakes and oceans? Nope. But those in power don't really care about the environment, they just LOVE TO USE environmental issues for their own good, and not for the "good of the Earth"....

Not one of you, and not one person on this planet knows what "is good for the Earth"...

Of course, for the benefit of the OP I stayed off the Spiritual aspect of our Reality as there are indeed multi-verses (layers of Universes), and some damn Occultist Satanist Bastard Pedophiles have opened, and will open once again, a doorway from that one to this one. It is called the Abyss and out from it will come Apollyon/Abaddon along with the "locusts" of the Bible. There is no Rapture but there is the Harpazo, but not yet!

Everyone will be in shock!

Just wanted to mention that!

Ok, maybe locusts won't effect the climate, but they might not help!

Eh.... maybe if I'd seen objective science taking place throughout this whole process. But I haven't. All I've seen is coercion and manipulation of science, data, practice, etc. And nobody told me this, I concluded it for myself through objective research.

Hi Pasiphae,
Great post - thank you.

Having read these threads one thing emerges: confusion.
Let us try to start at the top.
There is a worldwide conspiracy going all-out for a One World Government.
The Bible calls this the government of the Beast or the anti-Christ. It is a vast, tentacled organisation reaching into every sphere of life, government and business. In order to persuade people that a One World Government is necessary, they have to make us as dissatisfied and desperate about our own governments and situations. Hence we have powerful and evil people in very high places all over the world bent on causing strife, conflict and disasters. These people always occupy both extreme poles of every conflict, be it black vs. white, Jew vs. Muslim, communism vs. capitalism, guns for all vs. total disarmament, etc. Their aim is to create chaos and suffering, and to make money out of it at the same time. For example: start a war; keep it going for as long as possible, and then sell arms to both sides.
Climate Change is a good example. They try to convince us that there are only two sides - do nothing or do everything they suggest. They first of all panic us into the thought that, if we don’t do something now, we will soon destroy our world. Then they come up with an incredibly expensive solution. Then they tax us all to pay for this solution. Then they make sure that they are the ones to make huge profits from carrying out the solution.
Their worst enemy is common sense, (which is rapidly being killed off by legislation all over the world). Common sense tells us to look after our environment sensibly. Don’t litter; don’t waste resources; don’t over-fish the oceans; don't pollute our soils with dangerous chemicals; don’t fill our rivers and lakes with chemical pollutants, etc. The Globalists instead propose layers of legislation and bureaucracy and incredibly expensive solutions to solve these problems, and they benefit because their personnel are involved – and overpaid – for this task.
In a nutshell I believe that climate change is largely natural and cyclic. I also believe that we humans can make our environment better or worse by how we care for it. So let’s keep our own patch clean and pollutant-free, and use what influence we have to persuade those around us to do the same.
However the real threat is One World Government led by Lucifer/satan, the anti-Christ, the False Prophet and their minions, and when this happens, everything else will pale into insignificance.
If you would like a brief overview of what has really been happening here on Earth for the last few hundred years, check this out: educate-yourself.org...
If you want to see what Jesus said about the conditions on His return, check out Matthew 24.
If you want to see what we about to go into, check out the Book of Revelation.
Kind regards and blessings
David.
(Zimbabwe.)

reply to post by pasiphae
People do care, the ones that can think for themselves and do the research found out that global warming is a hoax to fill the pockets of people like Gore, the fact you still drink the coolaid and belive the lies does not mean its true.

reply to post by votan

The only thing all of our pollution will do is destroy our quality of life not the earth

You were the first one I think to mention the real problem... pollution.

If I was a corporation disfiguring the environment thru mining, drilling for oil or gas, or making all the toxic by products derived from the manufacture of all the crap we humans buy that we don't need, I would want the leavings of my environment destroying pollution to be hidden away from the public eye. I would also start a campaign that would cry out for the planet and climate as a distraction from the real problem... pollution. That is what is killing our environment and us.

The earth is self regulating and will adjust to changes just like it has all of its life. The difference today is that the atmosphere, water, food and us are becoming filled with toxins that are not diminishing but steadily building within us. Destroying us, not the earth.

Killing life in the oceans, the forests, the animals and us. The planet does not care about PCB's oil or radiation, it is all us life forms that absorb the pollution into our bones and blood.

It is vague and misleading to assert that temperature, water levels or Ozone and Co2 will be radically changed x number of years from now, no one can accurately predict any of that with any certainty. Depending who you listen to, the experts disagree wildly on the details. Neither can we really do anything on a personal level to keep glaciers from melting or stratospheric chemicals form affecting our day to day lives.

Meanwhile, whilst we argue (climate change) amongst ourselves, the mega corporations keep producing the seeds of our destruction and filling the environment with cancer causing and mutation forming toxins at will. Thats what we can and should focus on. That we can change.

That factory, power plant or oil refinery upstream that is slowly killing you and the kids? That we can affect.

Nah, just go back to driving all over town to buy the newest cell phone and DVD. There's the real real problem. Throw everything you bought last month away and a buy all new stuff. You have to. It is in your DNA.

reply to post by votan


Scientists are pretty sure that the Vikings practice of burning big forests to make fields for grazing animals could have caused the last mini ice age. It's just a theory as of yet but well accepted. Man can cause climate change, there are climate specialists all over the world that are in agreement. The only ones who seem not to be in agreement are those who don't want to change there way or profit by the abuse of the earth. Even China is making big steps towards changing it's impact on the earth. Most industrialized countries are starting to try to take better care of the environment. Seems the USA is one of the biggest countries to toss environmental policies to the wind. That's because Big Business doesn't like regulations that hurt their bottom line. I only have about two hundred hours of research I've done on environmental impacts of man on the world. I read a lot of articles on things we are doing and the impact of seemingly unrelated actions on the environment. We can destroy the worlds Ecosystem if we don't watch it. Mankind has never been as hard on the environment as they are now when you take a worldwide view of it. The world has a better chance of surviving a nuclear war than another twenty years of business as usual in the world. The main cause of the destruction is not CO2 though. It is all the chemicals we are using and Pharmacuticals and microbial soaps being concentrated in the wastewater. On top of that we are wasting too much of the groundwater and in some cases poisoning the aquafers. Twenty years max unless a major world war breaks out first.

i don't think the earth is going to blow up or be destroyed by our polluting. the earth will find a balance but we probably won't be able to adapt fast enough.

yes, the earth has always gone though cycles of climate change even before we were here.

the difference now is that we are speeding it up at a rate we probably won't be able to keep up with. had we taken care of the earth and not dumped so much pollution into the air and sea we would have a better chance of adjusting to the normal rate of change.

we've pushed it into high gear. if you smoke 2 packs of ciggs a day you're probably not going to live as long as you could have (of course this is an example - some people do manage to live long with very little lung capacity).

It is possible to remove gas and oil from the earth in a way that has little impact on the environment. It wouldn't cost much more either. Right now there are little regulations to make companies take these precautions. There is also a negative initiative because free enterprise, the cheaper you can drill it, the more competitive you can be. This is evil. A company that wants to do things right would never make it. If we got rid of the speculators that drive prices up the price would be cheaper and Ecology could be implemented. Fix the price of oil and gas and regulate it so the companies can make money and the customers pay a fair price. I remember when gas was regulated and it sure was a lot cheaper. I saw many lies start after that and it really sucks. I believe that automobile and airplane fuel should be higher but that home heating fuel should be cheaper. Lets go back to the sixties with this, I know it won't be 29 cents a gallon anymore but it will be better.

We need to stop making all the chemicals. We use so much chemicals in our daily life that hurts the environment that it is ridiculous. We don't need anti microbials in all our soaps, it really screws up the environment. Use natural soaps that are part of nature.

reply to post by pasiphae

i think it's not and it really bums me out that people don't seem to care.

I must admit that its peoples apathy towards this issue that is my biggest struggle... i just don’t understand how they cannot give a damn about their own life support system (because that’s what the earth is)

At least with the AGW Sceptics they actually have purpose, even if i may not agree with them!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by ThatGuy45

 

So, have you given up your computer? Your life of plastic?, you don't buy any more milk, you don't use rubber/tires? so you are close to Earth living in a cave, with mosquitoes all around you, with no AC, no electricity and no heater? With no shoes on your feet, a watch in your hand, an ipod/iphone or whatever the newest gadget is?...

edit on 16-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Oh come on... I nearly always disagree with what you say, but i do know that you are far too intelligent to believe that to be a worthy argument!!

For a start it’s Ad hominem because even if the person does do things that are bad for the environment it doesn’t take away the truth of their words!
Second... You can liken environmentalists outlook to the planet as similar to a fitness enthusiast outlook to their own body... Fitness enthusiast want their body to be in prime shape so they will exercise and eat a healthy diet. That doesn’t mean that they can’t have the occasional cake though does it!

Same with the environmentalist... The environmental argument is not about NEVER doing any harm to the planet EVER... its about limiting the harm to a level that the planet can manage!!

But i believe you already understand that!! Just do know why you have used such a poor tactic?