Spread of ‘baby boxes’ in Europe alarms United Nations

reply to post by intrptr


There's not a whole lot of difference between leaving a baby in a baby box or adopting one's baby - the reasons are mostly the same.

Imagine a child, much older than a baby been left abandoned......and there's plenty of them already roaming the streets worldwide.

Originally posted by intrptr
What weighs on my mind is the choiceless life the baby must wake up to later when maybe it struggles to discover it's birth roots and wonders what they could have done so wrong to be abandoned like that? What a guilt trip. Kids who were adopted have a tough enough time with that, imagine being left?

My daughter is adopted. She's from Bolivia.
She's getting ready to go to college soon.
She isn't 'struggling' with anything. She doesn't think anything like what you described.
I've asked her if she wants to go to Bolivia .. check out where she came from ... etc.
She has no interest. None. Doesn't even think of herself as adopted. She doesn't care.

My daughters crib-mate from her orphanage lives about 2 hours west of us. She was adopted
at the same time. She has no 'adoption issues' and doesn't struggle with any of it.

My friends have two children adopted from Korea. Neither of them think or act like you described.
They have no interest in going to Korea (which has baby boxes as well).
They don't consider themselves 'adopted' either.

Even being from different cultures - our daughter is hispanic and my neighbors kids are korean -
the kids have NO PROBLEM being adopted. None. We are their 'real families'.
Them being adopted never comes up.

Most 'interrupted adoptions' are those that come from Eastern Europe - Russia. Those kids
are overcrowded in the orphanges and get adopted at a much older time period in their lives.

In the end ... even if the kids had adoption issues ... it's better that they are alive and can
have those issues rather than being left ont he street to starve or freeze to death.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Karl Rove, is that you?

Are you on the payroll of the RNC or something? Every thread/post by you is either Anti-Obama or Anti-UN.

Xuenchen might be conservative, but he is on my friends list for a reason. He's one of the only conservatives I know of on this forum who isn't aggressive. He is quiet, and isn't hostile at all. He just posts stories about things which are of concern to him.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by intrptr

 

There's not a whole lot of difference between leaving a baby in a baby box or adopting one's baby - the reasons are mostly the same.

Imagine a child, much older than a baby been left abandoned......and there's plenty of them already roaming the streets worldwide.

Thank you for that reply. Agreed about the kids world wide. That is unbelievable. I have seen docs about kids in Haiti who suffer beatings, molestation and sleep in doorways. I can relate to the homeless part. I was "homeless" for 7 years. Not like that. I was an adult and living in America. My heart goes out to them kids though. It is a hopeless desperate situation for many of them.

About "abandonment" vs. adoption with newborns? There is a difference I think. With me it resides with the mother. The difference is "owning the baby", caring for it to term and then delivering it up for adoption rather than "hiding" by leaving it "anywhere". Can you imagine standing there watching the mother leave her baby and then the baby begins to cry? Are you kidding? Something about that tugs at my core. How could I know though, I am not a mother.

As a man though I can tell you that it is with the utmost disdain that I regard the bastards who impregnate women, either through incest or rape or whatever and then dismiss them out of hand to their fate. What jerks. (I am being nice now.) What disrespect for the girl. I have never done that, nor would I. In my opinion cretins like that should lose something. Something as dear to them as the mother and child they are abandoning.

That is where it begins mostly...with the man. (IMO)

reply to post by FlyersFan

I guess I should have said some kids have trouble with their adoption roots. Your success stories are refreshing. You have done such a good job in adopting and raising children. I would like to commend you on that.

Edit:

Them being adopted never comes up.

It might one day though. As they become older.

Originally posted by SickeningTruths
Didn't know what "baby boxes" were until this post. and honestly.. makes me kinda sick!

As a new father, I couldn't imagine discarding my child like trash. Shame on all those who use these "baby boxes".


"You do the crime, you do the time" Be a REAL hero, BE a parent!

and i guess you'll step right up and provide for these mothers and kids...you know, a job, some food, a place to live????....didn't think so, i know...let's just put all poor and damaged mothers in those FEMA camps, in fact, we could put all the poor in them, that way you don't have to deal with those people anymore.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by CthulhuMythos

So again "she" is not being responsible. It takes two to get this job done but it only takes one to have his way with her. Why is "he" never responsible for keeping it in his pants?

You have misinterpreted what I have said, yes 'she' is not being responsible by having unprotected sex, it is 'her' body and 'she' needs to be grown up enough to be responsible for it. If she can't even be responsible for her own body and actions she is not responsible enough to look after a baby and so should not be taking the risk of getting pregnant in the first place. If that means saying 'no' to the lads that want to have sex with her then she should do that, OR make sure he has protection OR that she has protection OR even better, they both have protection which will prevent unwanted pregnancy and protect her from STD's.

Now before you jump down my throat about rape and incest, I am talking about consensual sex not criminal sex. That is a crime and should not happen, but sadly it does, and in some or possibly many cases the families are severely lacking in compassion, understanding and help. THIS is when baby boxes are a good idea. However, there is a very real danger that this system COULD be used as a way of getting away with just not bothering with birth control / self control and possibly even condition young people that babies can be discarded easily with no feeling and that it is ok to do that, as if it is the norm.

How can children be responsible for such things when our entire Western culture is currently absorbed in sexuality? Think about the signals sent out by society. It's far from a child's responsibility to succeed where the rest of (adult) society fails so visibly and so loudly.

My point exactly, did you read the part where I say that how to actually have sex is now being taught to kids of only 10, 11, 12 years of age???? You think I am not horrified at this? You think I didn't spend 3 full hours going through the full video/teachers guidance notes/ illustrations/ vocabulary to be used only to challenge the content and then pull both of my kids of that age out of the class when it was being taught? You don't think I don't see the amount of sexuality and deviant sexuality surrounding almost every pop song video, advert, clothes style, tv program, website banner ads and movies??? (one of the many reasons I got rid of the tv about 4 years ago, with no regrets btw). So yes it is much harder for kids to just be kids, but it is also our responsibility as parents to shield them as much as possible and give them advice and support and hope they have listened well.

There is a father out there too. Men must consider their role in this thing too for this to be addressed justly.

Yes I agree, I never said that the father should get off with any responsibility for his actions. As far as I am concerned, if you can't be responsible for the consequences you keep it zipped and if you don't and you get your girl pregnant you should be legally bound to be with her during the actual birth and with her when she puts the baby in the box. Only then will they both experience the true consequences of their 10 minutes of 'fun time'.

Originally posted by intrptr

Them being adopted never comes up.

It might one day though. As they become older.

edit on 11-6-2012 by intrptr because: additional...

I don't know. College age isn't that young. I'd think that if there was a problem, it would have come up by now. I understand that not everyone is well adjusted, but honestly, all the adopted kids I know really are. You could be right. It may come up later. But I just dont' see it ... not for us anyways.

Anyways, I'd rather a few kids somewhere be asking the question .. 'why did my birth parents give me up for adoption' rather than having those kids being left to freeze or starve as a baby because there weren't any 'baby boxes'.

Our daughter is getting ready for college soon. She'll be a chemist/chemical engineer (double major) and will be contributing greatly to society. I"m VERY glad she was saved and I'm VERY glad she is in our family.

..... just my experience for those who are interested.

I'd rather a way to do this safely than the alternatives.

The problem with this is that it indicates that these societies are starting to break down. It is a big warning sign when children and babies start being abandonned with greater frequency. Greece has had a serious upturn of abandonned children in general, not just babies.

The part that people are missing here is the historical precedent. In societies where this behaviour increases, the number of adoptive families is also declining. The agencies that deal with these issues become flooded, and then taken over by other interests. Some examples I'm aware of because my Gr-Gr-Grandfather was a Home Child. This scheme was in Australia, and the orphans and waifs programs were throughout the UK, with similiar programs in other European countries. My ancestor considered himself a slave until he grew up, as did many people in this program.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...'s

www.integratedsociopsychology.net...
This is about what happened in Romania when abortion was illegal and the conditions were bad so that women/families were abandonning their children to the state/charities. If you want to see the depth of what can go wrong, this is very eye opening.

www.abctrust.org.uk...
Another example of what starts to happen. Brazil is also an abortion-is-illegal nation.

Don't think this can happen in a Western nation? I can dig you up photos and references to this exact phenomena during the 1930s and the 1800s. Dirty children sleeping miserably on the streets. Some of them ended up employeed in the new industrial revolution. Being a street child might have been safer.

When this behaviour becomes more common, there are fewer people to take care of these children. The tax/charity base supporting the agencies doing this work contracts, leaving less resources to properly place these children.

You should be less concern about the baby-boxes being good or bad, than you are about what it means when this behaviour becomes more common. It means societal dysfunction is setting in.

www.poten.com...

There is growing evidence that it is frequently men or relatives abandoning the child, raising questions about the mother's whereabouts and whether she has consented to giving up her baby," he said. "You also have to ask whether an anonymous drop allows the authorities to check whether there's a chance for the baby to remain with its family in the care of other relatives."

So, how do people who are concerned about the morality of the women in question feel about this? That it might be men who are doing it?

Society cannot force women to be mothers if they don't want to be or can't. I can't imagine myself, personally, aborting or abandoning but then again I always knew I wanted to be a mother and I'm happy being a mother. Not all women are, not all women can handle it or maybe the circumstances are awful, point is... if you outlaw abortion women will still find ways to abort and they won't be as safe or effective as modern medicine that's for sure. If you outlaw "baby boxes" more infants will be found dead in dumpsters, trash cans etc.

reply to post by CthulhuMythos


You are clearly not female as you have no comprehension of what it is to be female. It's not something that can be explained either. You just have to be on that side of life. Kind of like explaining to kids what it's like to see life from a half century on from where they stand. You just can't get it until you're there.

You know, there's nothing to stop a guy from making sure his bits are protected as well. It's just as much on the male's responsibility not to father unwanted children. Please understand that. Is there some reason that women need to be stronger? We all have physical urges. It's no less strong for females.

So go ahead and make your point from a balanced perspective now. I'd love to talk to you some more.

reply to post by SickeningTruths


40 million abortions in the USA should make you feel worse, thanks for being a man and a dad, not many of us left.

reply to post by xuenchen


That the boxes exist is horrible no doubt. Better that they do however.

That UN agency must be trying to justify it's existence? Hmmm, lets see now, is it not the UN Workers who are notorious for abusing children in Third World Hellholes?

Far better these boxes at locations where the child can be taken to a place where they will get good care, than the other options.

I'd say this time the UN has outdone itself as a wanna-be dictator to the world. I'm guessing this is to justify more workers so they can hire their relatives and freinds to sit around and collect paychecks working for a meaningless organization.

reply to post by xuenchen


How is this in any way "alarming" or a problem at all? These are a way to ensure a baby is cared for instead of being thrown in a trash can or drowned. People don't use these "instead of" raising their children properly or placing them with an adoption agency. To oppose these is to be for the murdering of newborns. I've never seen such a misguided commentary as this. The emergency room where friends of mine work in Elgin, I'll receives a few babies this way every year. Not surprisingly, newborns found dead (or sometimes still alive) in trash cans in the area have declined to near-zero since "safe-haven" dropoff programs have begun.

For my own peace of mind, I'm going to assume only the writer of the article and any on ATS who agree with the sentiment are the only people worldwide who prefer dead newborns in trash cans (or rubbish bins, for you UK folk.) otherwise, I may start thinking the world really is as scary a place as many here seem to believe.

Originally posted by SickeningTruths
Didn't know what "baby boxes" were until this post. and honestly.. makes me kinda sick!

As a new father, I couldn't imagine discarding my child like trash. Shame on all those who use these "baby boxes".


"You do the crime, you do the time" Be a REAL hero, BE a parent!

Isn't that the obvious problem though? If these parents can drop their babies off, then there's no parental instincts in them. Without the baby boxes, what do you think these parents would do to these babies? No, no, I really like this law.

reply to post by dogstar23


Like I said before,

The problem is with the U.N. - they seem to have the problem.

We don't know what they are thinking about on this.
They mentioned something about warning that the practice “contravenes the right of the child to be known and cared for by his or her parents”

and The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which reports on how well governments respect and protect children’s human rights, is alarmed at the prevalence of the hatches

We don't know what are going to do if anything.

The U.N. Has the problem and may very well become a bigger problem themselves !
That's my concern.

The United Nations is increasingly concerned at the spread in Europe of “baby boxes” where infants can be secretly abandoned by parents, warning that the practice “contravenes the right of the child to be known and cared for by his or her parents”, the Guardian has learned.

The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which reports on how well governments respect and protect children’s human rights, is alarmed at the prevalence of the hatches – usually outside a hospital – which allow unwanted newborns to be left in boxes with an alarm or bell to summon a carer.

The committee, a group of 18 international human rights experts based in Geneva, says that while “foundling wheels” and baby hatches had disappeared from Europe in the last century, almost 200 have been installed across the continent in the past decade in nations as diverse as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Poland, Czech Republic and Latvia. Since 2000, more than 400 children have been abandoned in the hatches, with faith groups and right-wing politicians spearheading the revival in the controversial practice....

Originally posted by SickeningTruths
Didn't know what "baby boxes" were until this post. and honestly.. makes me kinda sick!

As a new father, I couldn't imagine discarding my child like trash. Shame on all those who use these "baby boxes".


"You do the crime, you do the time" Be a REAL hero, BE a parent!

Your rant wont change the young girl who will dump her unwanted baby in the trash can outside of a Wendys. At least if she knows about these boxes she might think about dumping the child there instead. You know , where it might actually have a chance at life.

Whats better ,a live baby that has been discarded by a parent or a dead baby found in a dumpster ?

This all falls back to the government being at fault. By removing our rights to raise our children with morals and punishing them for doing wrong, now we have kids who get raised by their video games and pc computers with internet access, or raised by their cell phones with text messaging. The end result is ending up with kids having babies and who learn that instead of being responsible, they can just dump their crap in everyone elses' laps and have us deal with it instead.

Now we have youngsters in jail, being alcoholic in their mid teens, strung out on drugs with parents who don't even give a crap and have given up. Parent's who'd rather sit their kids in front of a video game or internet instead of teaching them how to be good people.

This is what you end up with, when you take YHWH out of the equation in your nation, everything slowly slides into hell and picks up speed getting there over time. Instead of teaching them to be morally responsible, they are being taught to be morally irresponsible.

Lets see food garbage cans are black,glass is yellow aluminum is purple,bio cans are red,so... what color are the baby garbage cans?


Abstinence a superior choice for superior minds.