This is a Sexist Thread! (Men's Rights)

reply to post by eletheia


I get what you're saying, but some of the double standards have a deeper root. A woman is biologically designed to be choosy with her mate ( in the breeding sense) and if she has gotten a hold of a good one, keep him. Men are designed to propagate far and wide. It's hard wired, so the societal bias will always be to look down on a woman who is haphazard enough to have 4 different baby daddies. No matter how good a mom she may be to them, and no matter how open minded we are about sexual equality, there's always going to be a whisper of doubt about her choices in the back of our minds. Just like we may not think less of a man having 4 baby mommas,( I personally would) but we damn sure look down on him if he's not supporting those kids. The social rolls here have followed from biological ones. Child bearing is dangerous, important work and one's life shouldn't be risked on inferior genes or for a mate who will not provide for and protect you while you are in such a vulnerable position. This is how it started. I sometimes think people forget that just because we find a concept offensive to our modern sensibilities doesn't mean it is possible to change it.

Gender and biology and what that means for equality is a sticky subject.

Originally posted by U4ea82
reply to post by tw0330

 

I'm really sorry that you and your family had to go through that. I know exactly how you feel. I don't really want to go into specifics but, I've been through a similar situation with my sister and her children. I love her but, I knew she wasn't doing the right thing for her kids, and I helped my ex brother in law get custody of them. It hurt but, I knew it had to be done. She still refuses to speak to me and it's been nearly 7 years. She just couldn't see past her own needs to do what she needed to do to be a good parent. This is why I tend to agree with you about the custody issue...women can and are capable of being incredibly horrible creatures, and it's sad that society still turns a blind eye to those facts.

I'll have to give you credit. Out of all the animosity and anger in this type of forum post, I commend you for looking at things from both sides of the fence. You don't automatically strike back in a defensive manner like most which suggests that you do see a one-sided problem and that you desire true equality for both men AND women. My hat's off to you.

It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

But it is also encouraging to see many who are aware of what's going on and sympathetic towards men's rights - especially those women not under the spell of feminist indoctrination. You really are a breath of fresh air when discussing these issues.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

But it is also encouraging to see many who are aware of what's going on and sympathetic towards men's rights - especially those women not under the spell of feminist indoctrination. You really are a breath of fresh air when discussing these issues.

Again, I challenge you as someone posting about the degradation of men's rights to point out some of these rights that are being eroded. Not some of the ways individuals are making you feel bad, but actual verifiable rights that are being eroded.

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet
Okay... Full transparency: I only have a little bit of time to write this, so I skipped the last two pages of responses. I've been entertaining my 5-year old daughter since leaving work today. I took her for a haircut, and to the mall's playplace, drove an hour home, and took her to her grandmother's house for a while, and I have tons to do before I get to sleep. Then tomorrow, I'm taking her to a breakfast at her school, then to school proper, then gymnastics on Saturday, and I'll get her to help me plant the garden and mow the lawn. Sunday, we'll see if she can get signed up for Brownies.

That's all background. I will take down anyone who tries to suggest that a woman would be better at my job than me. Being this child's father is the single greatest job in the world, and frankly, I do a damned good job.

You know what gets me, though? Most of the commercials you see on tv, or hear on the radio borrow their humour from making guys look stupid. Any spot where you see a guy being a dad, he's got to be the gruff, sports-loving bear of a guy, because some poseur got the idea that that's what a real man is. He can't show emotion, certainly in front of his kids, and he'd rather be shot in the stomach than go shopping.

A real man doesn't need all that garbage. A real man will stand up for what's right, fess up to his wrongs, take on more to make the burden less on others, shield from harm, and occasionally get really hurt in the process. He'll sacrifice of himself even when he's given up so much it feels like he'll implode from the nothing that is left there. Then, given a good sleep, he'll do it again the next day. What's more, since it's in service of something so awesome, he'll love it till the day he collapses from it.

I haven't had a day off in at least 6 years. All of my weekends away include my daughter. But there's still this "motherly love" thing that I have to compete with. I can't hold a candle to it, or understand it, and if I try to suggest that a dad can fill that gap, I get glares of disgust from these elitist moms.

Stay at home dads, I salute you. Flirting with destitution keeps me from taking that step, but it seems like the greatest thing a guy could do. Who needs to fit what people say a man should be, when being a dad is all you really need!

Yeah, I was a stay at home dad for six years, my wife had the good paying job. I raised the kids with respect and taught them about Jesus, changed them fed them and am still doing this today even though I have a job at a cable company. Although, no longer a stay at home father, I instilled respect into them without beating them as I was raising them and my wife actually argued with me on raising y voice. I told her that I had to show them who was in charge at an early age because if you wait til they get older it will be much harder, if impossible, to get them under control. She vehemently disagreed with me and continued with the coddling and spoiling of the children.Now my 2 girls are 10 and 13.


They listen to me, very rarely talk back (even then it's under the breath), but hey do what I ask because they have known nothing more than my consistency as a father and a disciplinarian. As for my wife, she is a nurse and when she get's home from work they walk all over her, hit her, basically they just ignore her and do what they want....until I get home, then after cleaning up her mess (second job), the girls are once again, back on track and good for the rest of he night. It is only in my absence and in the presence of their mother that they get out of control,.....all because she spoiled them while younger and would not heed my message. I had read all the books on children and raising them, so it wasn't My advice she argued with....but years of study.


Yet, we men never get an "I'm sorry" or "you were right" or anything.....it's back to the media making women look like such great mother figures and men looking like bumbling idiots.As for women and not giving you credit for all you've done and not even apologizing for us men having to do damage control with the kids in the honor of women every single day........as for them,.....it's on to the next thing they can complain about you. Nag, nag, nag...but they never do anything wrong, even when caught they'll still deny it. They are not the great mothers that feminists and the media portray.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

But it is also encouraging to see many who are aware of what's going on and sympathetic towards men's rights - especially those women not under the spell of feminist indoctrination. You really are a breath of fresh air when discussing these issues.

Again, I challenge you as someone posting about the degradation of men's rights to point out some of these rights that are being eroded. Not some of the ways individuals are making you feel bad, but actual verifiable rights that are being eroded.

edit on 8-6-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Please ignore this person, I could post all day showing proof, and it would never be good enough. talk about sexist.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by Furbs

 

If he isn't ready to be a father, he shouldn't be having sex, eh?

Another prime example of the double standard. The woman can have sex , and gets to choose, but he doesn't.

What about all the men who don't want the abortion? How many men have cried silent tears over that?

Does he get to to say to her" if you didn't want the child , you shouldn't have had sex"?

I did hear of one case that was taken to court , and he actually won the right to have the woman carry the pregnancy, and he took sole custody. I have to look it up. It was interesting when I read it.

edit on 7-6-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Whoa.

Don't accuse me of a double standard.

Women that aren't ready to have kids shouldn't be having sex either.

Both are able to have surgeries to prevent them from procreating.

Would like to read that case you mention, I cannot find it after my own research.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

But it is also encouraging to see many who are aware of what's going on and sympathetic towards men's rights - especially those women not under the spell of feminist indoctrination. You really are a breath of fresh air when discussing these issues.

Yeah, I know. They are the ones I wrote about in my first post on this thread. Weak guys who think that if they side with the women, they will get in their pants faster. LOL Man could they be more wrong? They don't even know that they are now the trusted girlfriend who's shoulder she will cry on every time she complains about her boyfriend/husband's mistreatment......then she will go right back to the guy who mistreated her for more, while the feminist guy goes home alone wondering when the day will be that he will score

Originally posted by tw0330

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

But it is also encouraging to see many who are aware of what's going on and sympathetic towards men's rights - especially those women not under the spell of feminist indoctrination. You really are a breath of fresh air when discussing these issues.

Again, I challenge you as someone posting about the degradation of men's rights to point out some of these rights that are being eroded. Not some of the ways individuals are making you feel bad, but actual verifiable rights that are being eroded.

edit on 8-6-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Please ignore this person, I could post all day showing proof, and it would never be good enough. talk about sexist.

Ignore me? Why? Because you have yet to post anything other than baseless rhetoric? Look at your thread. It has not created the 'pro-masculine' atmosphere that I believe you were looking for. It is a breeding ground for anti-feminine mentality.

Ignore me because I challenge your long held beliefs that you are somehow being wronged by feminism and ask you to provide verifiable evidence of your claims, and then continue to point out that you are not proving your points with logical evidence to the contrary.

If you are truly interested in Gender Equality, why not do more about it than preach to the choir? Take some classes, get active. There are many schools offering gender studies with programs being taught which educate people on the entire spectrum of gender, not merely the bifurcated illusions put forth in this thread.

reply to post by Nietrick





I think society has gone past animal instincts...We are thinkers and supposed to think

through to possible concequences of our actions, your quote "in the breeding

sense women are designed to be choosey with their mate" - well unfortunately however

choosey they do make mistakes in their choice [after all not all men are the prize variety!]

My take on 'in the breeding sense' is that women are designed to nuture their off spring.


It may be that men are 'hard wired' to propagate far and wide [your words]...BUT as i said

earlier we as humans are designed to THINK, and so think through concequences. By your

premise there will be no males staying around for their own off spring.

By learning and training we are ALL capable of 'by passing' 'hard wiring' - and in this day

and age it shows ie. We have women surpassing in what were tradionally a 'male thing'

engineering - mechanics - plumbing - tiling - management positions - and just lately the

first woman Admiral of the fleet!! I myself was the only female in a salesforce of 100+ men

I would NOT have got the job at an interview but got there by way of a company 'take over'

and would not have been kept on if i hadn't held my own at the job.


There are FEW men that you refer to as having 'baby momas' who support their many and

large broods of children...the tab for that usually falls to the tax payer!


As i have already said we are 'supposedly' intelligent beings with the ability to think...

I personally don't buy "double standards" - when i make a commitment i expect the

same in return from a man......and it has been my misfortune over the years to come

across some who don't, won't, or can't step up to the plate.

reply to post by Furbs


- the right not to miss out on job opportunities just because they are male
- the right to equal education opportunities at college and university, which is currently not the case
- the right not to repress the physiological/psychological effects of hormone build up in their bodies, (women are shown far more patience and understanding when they experience hormone build up)
- the right to take photographs of their kids in public without being assumed to be up to no good
- the right to have their deaths and injuries acknowledged to the same extent as women and children and not be simply referred to as insignificant numbers
- the right to not have to be forced into societal male gender roles which include forcing them to "man up" and be "real men" who don't share their problems with others
- the right not to be displayed excessively negatively (stupid, womanising, disorganised, incapable, brutish slobs) on TV and in the media.
- the right to the same level of government support services as are directed towards women
- the right to have the legal system acknowledge their claims of domestic violence against them to the same extent as women's claims are taken
- the right to fair and just punishments for committing crime - compared to women, men generally receive harsher and longer punishments for committing the same crimes
- the right to be a part of their children's lives in cases of divorce, which are disproportionately in favour of mothers in terms of visit times and child support payments
- the right to criticise a woman for her work ethic, character faults or treatment of others without being labelled sexist or a misogynist because you happen to be a man
- the right not to be stereotyped as the perpetrator (and women the victim) when incidents between two members of the opposite sex take place.

I've probably missed some, but hopefully that gives you an idea of some of the rights and freedoms I was referring to.

reply to post by tw0330


i am a woman and i agree with everything you said. I think part of the problem is that men do not fight enough or cry out enough when injustice is done to them. maybe women know how to complain more

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I wonder how different things will be if we were a matriarchy? What are the advantages and disadvantages of a matriarchy vs. a patriarchy.

I couldn't tell you because there's no real evidence of a matriarchy ever existing but im sure that it to would have its problems.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Furbs

 

- the right not to miss out on job opportunities just because they are male

Serious charge. Any kind of evidence that this is going on? Studies? Statistics? It's hard to prove, as women that have been fighting this kind of years can tell you.

- the right to equal education opportunities at college and university, which is currently not the case

Again, do you have evidence to support this claim?

- the right not to repress the physiological/psychological effects of hormone build up in their bodies, (women are shown far more patience and understanding when they experience hormone build up)

Women are shown more patience by whom? Is patience and understanding a right? Where is that outlined in any form? Again, evidence of systematic mistreatment?

- the right to take photographs of their kids in public without being assumed to be up to no good

Seriously? Now you are asking for thought police?

- the right to have their deaths and injuries acknowledged to the same extent as women and children and not be simply referred to as insignificant numbers

This right would infringe on another's First Amendment right… I'm not sure if you know what rights are..

- the right to not have to be forced into societal male gender roles which include forcing them to "man up" and be "real men" who don't share their problems with others

I actually enjoy that right as part of the First Amendment. Why aren't you?

- the right not to be displayed excessively negatively (stupid, womanising, disorganised, incapable, brutish slobs) on TV and in the media.

You advocate a lot of First Amendment infringements..

- the right to the same level of government support services as are directed towards women

I am interested in hearing more about what you think is not being addressed.

- the right to have the legal system acknowledge their claims of domestic violence against them to the same extent as women's claims are taken
- the right to fair and just punishments for committing crime - compared to women, men generally receive harsher and longer punishments for committing the same crimes
- the right to be a part of their children's lives in cases of divorce, which are disproportionately in favour of mothers in terms of visit times and child support payments

As has already been addressed and cited these are issues of Family Law which are not statistically sexist, though I do agree that many of our Family Law codes needed to be updated to reflect the 100% accuracy of paternal verification. Many of the laws still on the books reflect a time when paternal verification was NOT biologically verifiable, and as such, archaic practices are still enforced. This isn't inherently sexist.

- the right to criticise a woman for her work ethic, character faults or treatment of others without being labelled sexist or a misogynist because you happen to be a man

Again, you are having your feelings hurt for using your First Amendment rights. Nothing but pride is being violated.

- the right not to be stereotyped as the perpetrator (and women the victim) when incidents between two members of the opposite sex take place.

You do not have that right. Stereotyping is not against the law.

I've probably missed some, but hopefully that gives you an idea of some of the rights and freedoms I was referring to.

edit on 8/6/2012 by Dark Ghost because: spelling

This is yet another unsupported list of anecdotes. You have compiled the list, why not cite it with information to back up what you are saying?

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by seeker11

 

I see the same thing, with women thinking they should be sex objects. Even children are taught this behavior these days! i watched a video with this really suggestive song (Genie in a Bottle, i think it was), and these pre-teen girls dancing all "sexy" style to it, singing the lyrics, and their mothers sitting there smiling like that was the cutest thing. Then there is the clothing that is sometimes marketed for young girls. Not teens, but children. Stuff my girls look at and shake their heads at, like skirts so short you couldn't sneeze in them without exposing underwear, but without any built-in shorts. Tops that are made to enhance a bustline on girls that don't even have one. You get the idea.

The way men are treated on television sometimes is awful! The very idea that the typical husband and father is a clown, a useless waste of time, has permeated society. The world has gone mad!

again I have to agree with you. Woman seem to want to be sex objects, and go out of their way and spend their cash on breast implants , expensive makeup, shoes that are all about the sexiness (and ruin feet).

It gets tiring to hear many women complaining about something, that they seem to want. Many women use there sexuality, and it shows.

It their choice to do so, but please don't complain about being treated like a sexual object when you are getting implants, puffing up your lips, wearing skirts that barely pass the buttocks, with 5 inch stilettos.

edit on 7-6-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Most women only WANT to be these things because they feel that they must in order to get what they want out of life. I don't think the average self respecting woman just wants to go out of her way to be a sex object, but when we see men clamoring after those perfect looking no brained women and the media portraying and brainwashing our minds constantly with these photoshopped perfect images, then we may start to let our intelligence slide a little bit so we're not left behind. After all the most important thing biologically written in our DNA is to reproduce so we do what we must in order to achieve that goal, sometimes at the expense of our own self respect and dignity. My point is that there is a root cause to everything, and it's important not to judge the action on the surface but you have to dig much deeper to find the cause of the problem.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I wonder how different things will be if we were a matriarchy? What are the advantages and disadvantages of a matriarchy vs. a patriarchy.

I couldn't tell you because there's no real evidence of a matriarchy ever existing but im sure that it to would have its problems.

Enjoy this bit of reading about a modern day matrilineal/matriarchal tribe in China.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Furbs

 

- the right not to miss out on job opportunities just because they are male

Serious charge. Any kind of evidence that this is going on? Studies? Statistics? It's hard to prove, as women that have been fighting this kind of years can tell you.

- the right to equal education opportunities at college and university, which is currently not the case

Again, do you have evidence to support this claim?

- the right not to repress the physiological/psychological effects of hormone build up in their bodies, (women are shown far more patience and understanding when they experience hormone build up)

Women are shown more patience by whom? Is patience and understanding a right? Where is that outlined in any form? Again, evidence of systematic mistreatment?

- the right to take photographs of their kids in public without being assumed to be up to no good

Seriously? Now you are asking for thought police?

- the right to have their deaths and injuries acknowledged to the same extent as women and children and not be simply referred to as insignificant numbers

This right would infringe on another's First Amendment right… I'm not sure if you know what rights are..

- the right to not have to be forced into societal male gender roles which include forcing them to "man up" and be "real men" who don't share their problems with others

I actually enjoy that right as part of the First Amendment. Why aren't you?

- the right not to be displayed excessively negatively (stupid, womanising, disorganised, incapable, brutish slobs) on TV and in the media.

You advocate a lot of First Amendment infringements..

- the right to the same level of government support services as are directed towards women

I am interested in hearing more about what you think is not being addressed.

- the right to have the legal system acknowledge their claims of domestic violence against them to the same extent as women's claims are taken
- the right to fair and just punishments for committing crime - compared to women, men generally receive harsher and longer punishments for committing the same crimes
- the right to be a part of their children's lives in cases of divorce, which are disproportionately in favour of mothers in terms of visit times and child support payments

As has already been addressed and cited these are issues of Family Law which are not statistically sexist, though I do agree that many of our Family Law codes needed to be updated to reflect the 100% accuracy of paternal verification. Many of the laws still on the books reflect a time when paternal verification was NOT biologically verifiable, and as such, archaic practices are still enforced. This isn't inherently sexist.

- the right to criticise a woman for her work ethic, character faults or treatment of others without being labelled sexist or a misogynist because you happen to be a man

Again, you are having your feelings hurt for using your First Amendment rights. Nothing but pride is being violated.

- the right not to be stereotyped as the perpetrator (and women the victim) when incidents between two members of the opposite sex take place.

You do not have that right. Stereotyping is not against the law.

I've probably missed some, but hopefully that gives you an idea of some of the rights and freedoms I was referring to.

edit on 8/6/2012 by Dark Ghost because: spelling

This is yet another unsupported list of anecdotes. You have compiled the list, why not cite it with information to back up what you are saying?

edit on 8-6-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

How about the right to a fair trial?

but you may be right, the problem is that there is no violation, because the right has yet to exist for men. This just proves my point that we need some rights too.

Originally posted by tw0330
How about the right to a fair trial?

How is that right being violated?

but you may be right, the problem is that there is no violation, because the right has yet to exist for men. This just proves my point that we need some rights too.

What rights do you think you are missing out on? If I am to simply take the above as an indicator of your slight, you feel that men somehow do not get fair trials? However.. that IS a right we enjoy in this country.. so it can't be what you mean at all.

What are you missing out on?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's disappointing to see so many men that have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology actually defend misandry and the degradation of men's rights. I guess this is not surprising, though, as society has been structured this way and you are just a product of its influence. You have been programmed rather well it seems.

My main reservation about the "men's rights," issue, is that I've noticed a tendency for men's and women's rights advocacy to sharply divide along political lines. Feminism is most commonly associated with Marxism or the Left, while as mentioned, I don't think I've come across a single men's rights activist who didn't seem like a raving fascist.

If you're a man who wants better legal protection, but who doesn't also necessarily think that Hitler was awesome, that can make things difficult.

Originally posted by Furbs
There are many schools offering gender studies with programs being taught which educate people on the entire spectrum of gender, not merely the bifurcated illusions put forth in this thread.

Interesting that you bring up the notion of "taking some classes".

A vast majority of schools offer Women's Studies classes. I challenge you to find more than 5 that offer Men's Studies.

I will be waiting for the results of your search.