Islam the Religion of Peace? I don't think so...

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

Twist? What did I twist? Here's another part for you from Rumi.

I noticed you try to make him into a Muslim when it's quite clear he wants nothing to do with it as he says:

I am neither Christian, Jew, Infidel, nor Muslim! I am from neither the East, nor West. I hail not from the land or from the sea. I am not from the land of India or China, Bulgaria or Saqsin, nor Iraq or Khorasan". Having lost his mundane identity, Rumi has attained a higher supra-existence, for he says "I have shed duality, and see the two worlds as one.

I seek One, i know One, i see One, i read One". It is in this shedding of duality that one is able to reconcile the opposites — sulh-e-azdad — and find the harmonious music of the spheres: "To look at the ocean, beyond the spray, to look at the essence, beyond the words".

But then again, it's a tactic from Muslims to do that. Anyone that lived in an Islamic period must have been Muslim...right?

interesting , we better call wiki and tell them to stop posting lies about people

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muḥammad Balkhī (Persian: جلال الدین محمد بلخى‎ Persian pronunciation: [dʒælɒːlæddiːn mohæmmæde bælxiː]), also known as Jalāl ad-Dīn Muḥammad Rūmī (جلال الدین محمد رومی Persian pronunciation: [dʒælɒːlæddiːn mohæmmæde ɾuːmiː]) and popularly known as Mevlānā in Turkey and Mawlānā[1] (Persian: مولانا‎ Persian pronunciation: [moulɒːnɒː]) in Iran and Afghanistan but known to the English-speaking world simply as Rumi[3] (30 September 1207 – 17 December 1273) was a 13th-century Persian[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] Muslim poet, jurist, theologian, and Sufi mystic.[12] Rūmī is a descriptive name meaning "Roman" since he lived most of his life in an area called "Rûm" (then under the control of Seljuq dynasty) because it was once ruled by the Eastern Roman Empire.[13] He was one of the figures who flourished in the Sultanate of Rum.[14] It is likely that he was born in the village of Wakhsh,[15] a small town located at the river Wakhsh in Persia (in what is now Tajikistan). Wakhsh belonged to the larger province of Balkh, and in the year Rumi was born, his father was an appointed scholar there.[15] Both these cities were at the time included in the greater Persian cultural sphere of Khorasan, the easternmost province of Persia[4] and was part of the Khwarezmian Empire. His birthplace[4] and native language[16] both indicate a Persian heritage.[17] His father decided to migrate westwards due to quarrels between different dynasties in Khorasan, opposition to the Khwarizmid Shahs, who were considered deviant by Bahā ad-Dīn Walad,[18] or fear of the impending Mongol cataclysm.[19] Rumi's family traveled west, first performing the Hajj and eventually settling in the Anatolian city Konya (capital of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, in present-day Turkey). This was where he lived most of his life, and here he composed one of the crowning glories of Persian literature which profoundly affected the culture of the area.[20] He lived most of his life under the Sultanate of Rum, where he produced his works[21] and died in 1273 AD. He was buried in Konya and his shrine became a place of pilgrimage.[22] Following his death, his followers and his son Sultan Walad founded the Mevlevi Order, also known as the Order of the Whirling Dervishes, famous for its Sufi dance known as the Sama ceremony. Rumi's works are written in the New Persian language. A Persian literary renaissance (in the 8th/9th century) started in regions of Sistan, Khorāsān and Transoxiana[23] and by the 10th/11th century, it reinforced the Persian language as the preferred literary and cultural language in the Persian Islamic world. Rumi's importance is considered to transcend national and ethnic borders. His original works are widely read in their original language across the Persian-speaking world. Translations of his works are very popular in other countries. His poetry has influenced Persian literature as well as Urdu, Punjabi and other Pakistani languages written in Perso/Arabic script e.g. Pashto and Sindhi. His poems have been widely translated into many of the world's languages and transposed into various formats. In 2007, he was described as the "most popular poet in America."[24]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

your Ignorance is besides you my good man , for the record i have lived in an Islamic state , in southern Russia , and well , never experiences anything your talking about here

First of all, no place in Russia goes under Islamic law so there isn't Islamic culture in Russia. There are nut jobs in Chechnya sure.

you must be quoting from some anti source

It's called reality in Iran. Or Saudi Arabia. Or Sudan. Pick your Islamic country with an Islamic culture and law. Then go live there. Don't say you've experienced Islamic culture when you've gone to Russia, a place people used to flee to in order to get AWAY from Islam.

can you please tell me where you picked up on thees ideas

Erm, reality under Islam?

also it was a great experiences, and as soon as the opportunity comes , ill be moving their , i know what i have found

Everything is rose colored at first.

do you know what your doing ? your trying to push me away from GOD AND LOVE ? i am at peace , i have found god , why would you try and take that from me ?

You are ignorant. If you believe you have found that, then good for you. But just because ONE delusional case like yourself chooses to push aside all the FACTS and REALITIES that people have to endure, oppression in all freaking corners of the world - even Muslims living in Western countries do not escape their retarded culture - does not give you the right to do so. As you have only your own experience to guide you and are blind to other human beings while professing to have found God and Love. What a bunch of nonsense. With that said, enjoy your belief to the fullest - see if I care. I care for the women that have to endure their Islamic husbands and the Islamic culture.

interesting , we better call wiki and tell them to stop posting lies about people

Oh yes, Wikipedia, the root for all ignorant truth. You're starting to sound more and more like a joke by the way.

anyway , lets continue this all in the marrow , i must sleep now , i love you all more then you know

its been an honor

humbly

LSH

Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere
interesting , we better call wiki and tell them to stop posting lies about people

You said that the wikipedia was wrong to call people engaged in Jihad, mujahid, yet on the other hand, when it suits you, you appear to suggest that wikipedia can not be wrong.

Which is it?

good luck with that new religion bud




you will be needing one of these

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere
interesting , we better call wiki and tell them to stop posting lies about people

You said that the wikipedia was wrong to call people engaged in Jihad, mujahid, yet on the other hand, when it suits you, you appear to suggest that wikipedia can not be wrong.

Which is it?

edit on 10-6-2012 by ollncasino because: Fix error

you must have missed the sarcasm their , indeed i dont believe wiki is accurate ,

Originally posted by redneck13
good luck with that new religion bud

you will be needing one of these

the "new Religion" on the contrary, its far from being new , and luck ? what for ? alhamdulillah! i understand your concerns for me , but please you need not be concerned with me and my affairs with god , for it is only he who will judge me , and anyone who would "think" they know , would otherwise be crazy correct ?

i fear only god and god alone

LSH

First of all, no place in Russia goes under Islamic law so there isn't Islamic culture in Russia. There are nut jobs in Chechnya sure.

i was lucky enough to say with a family of Avars out the outskirts of dagestan in a small village that still fallow's Islamic tradition , despite the heavy influence of Russian occupation, beautiful people , also when i went to hajj , i got a chance to live in an "Islamic State "

It's called reality in Iran. Or Saudi Arabia. Or Sudan. Pick your Islamic country with an Islamic culture and law. Then go live there. Don't say you've experienced Islamic culture when you've gone to Russia, a place people used to flee to in order to get AWAY from Islam.

i believe i have just said it ? need i say more ?

Erm, reality under Islam?

so your reality is the proper reality that i should live by ?

also it was a great experiences, and as soon as the opportunity comes , ill be moving their , i know what i have found

Everything is rose colored at first.

You are ignorant. If you believe you have found that, then good for you. But just because ONE delusional case like yourself chooses to push aside all the FACTS and REALITIES that people have to endure, oppression in all freaking corners of the world - even Muslims living in Western countries do not escape their retarded culture - does not give you the right to do so. As you have only your own experience to guide you and are blind to other human beings while professing to have found God and Love. What a bunch of nonsense. With that said, enjoy your belief to the fullest - see if I care. I care for the women that have to endure their Islamic husbands and the Islamic culture.

so i am Ignorant ,Delusional , i am part of a "retarded culture" that i have no right to be part of ? i am blind to other human beings ? and somehow you know that i have not found god and love ? ......... can i tell you that i love you ? and all mankind for that matter ?

Oh yes, Wikipedia, the root for all ignorant truth. You're starting to sound more and more like a joke by the way.

one more thing ... apparently i am a joke ?

i still love you

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

i was lucky enough to say with a family of Avars out the outskirts of dagestan in a small village that still fallow's Islamic tradition , despite the heavy influence of Russian occupation, beautiful people , also when i went to hajj , i got a chance to live in an "Islamic State "

You were a GUEST. GUESTS have special privileges and are withheld from too much information.

i believe i have just said it ? need i say more ?

You VISITED, you did not LIVE it.

so your reality is the proper reality that i should live by ?

No, not at all, I encourage you to go and live in a proper Islamic state and see how enlightening Islam is to your daily life. I wish EVERY one of you pro-Islam folk who've never experienced the culture go and live in those cultures so you may undergo the same hardships you so valiantly decorate as a "proper way of life".

so i am Ignorant ,Delusional , i am part of a "retarded culture" that i have no right to be part of ?

You have every right if it is YOUR wish. But remember well, once you get children you will try to place YOUR wish before your children's wishes. And that's where the retarded culture starts. You have every right, again, to go and join that culture if you want.

i am blind to other human beings ?

Since you claim that Islamic cultures and societies are so great to grow up in...

and somehow you know that i have not found god and love ?

Hey, if you claim you have, go at it. Go nuts wandering around in robes.

can i tell you that i love you ? and all mankind for that matter ?

As a HUMAN yes. But there is more to it then just claiming you love people. If you don't care enough to witness their pain and struggle, then what is that love but superficial? If you don't care enough to witness the truth, then what is that love but inattentive? If you only care to speak about those whom are happy in their lives, yet fail to address the oppression of your brothers and sisters elsewhere, what is that love but non-realistic?

one more thing ... apparently i am a joke ?

"Look like", I can only go by the words you type here. For all I know you could be a saint in real life.

i still love you

And with the same love I warn you.

$50,000 U.S. dollars

www.faithfreedom.org...

Sina's Challenge


I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.

If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay

$50,000 U.S. dollars

to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist
a misogynist
a rapist
a pedophile
a lecher
a torturer
a mass murderer
a cult leader
an assassin
a terrorist
a mad man
a looter

I have debated with many Muslims. Their defense of Islam can be summarized in two categories:

a- Denial of the authenticity of Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, a leader of the Submitters)

b- Moral relativism and situational ethics, e.g., “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, raid, pillage, massacre and lying, were common practices, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else was doing.” Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim I do not have any basis to condemn Muhammad. In other words, who can say what is good and what is evil? That is up to the messenger of God to decide. (Example: debate with Yamin Zakaria)

These are the main two arguments that Muslims present in defense of Islam. Any rational person can see they are logical fallacies.

These charges are irrefutable. You simply can't disprove them because they are reported in Islamic sources and as such they are as good as confession. You can't acquit a criminal after he has confessed, unless you plead insanity, which is my point.

Muslims often ask: "Who will judge whether or not an attempt to disprove your accusations against Muhammad and Islam, was successful?" The readers will be the jury. It is not difficult to see which side is right once both arguments are presented without one side fearing the other. I will publish the debates in this site. My opponents are also encouraged to publish them in any Islamic site. Please note that I will not accept face to face debates. The debates must be in writing.

Edit 2007/07/29

The above challenge was issued in 2001 and it hasn't been met yet. See the debates I had with Muslims. Also see the pathetic attempt of some Muslims trying to refute me here , here, here and here. Is that all the Muslim world can offer? Where are the scholars of Islam? Why such an important task is left to a bunch of amateurs who actually do more damage to Islam? Isn't it time that the real scholars come forth and refute my charges?

The truth is that several of the people that debated me were real scholars, such as the eminent Pakistani scholar Mr. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi and his disciple Dr. Khalid Zaheer. This debate is a must read and is available for download. Dr. Zaheer is a learned man, a moderate Muslim and a good human being. I have utmost respect for him.

When choosing your Islamic state of residence
It’s not all about the religion
Be sure that the state maintains
A high quality of punishment


mehr.org...

Quality of Punishment
Article 100: The flogging of an adulterer shall be carried out while he is standing upright
and his body bare
except for his genitals. The lashes shall strike all parts of his body–- except his face, head
and genitals-- with
full force. The adulteress shall be flogged while she is seated and her clothing tightly
bound to her body.
Article 102: The stoning of an adulterer or adulteress shall be carried out while each is
placed in a hole and
covered with soil, he up to his waist and she up to a line above her breasts.

Section 4:
Special Ceremonies for Implementation of Stoning to Death

Article 22 – Members of the police or prison guards must initially dig the location for
execution of the verdict, according to and following the description in Article 102 of
“Islamic Penal Law”, and prepare some amount of stones (rocks) of specified sizes
according to Article 102 of the aforementioned law. The “executing judge” will initially
inspect the preparations and, upon satisfactory inspection, he will order the execution to
proceed.
Article 23 – In the case when conviction of the prisoner is based on his (her) confession, the
“ruling judge” will throw the first stone at the convict, then the spectators can proceed to
cast their stones. However, if conviction is based on the statement of witnesses, the first
stones are thrown by the witnesses, followed by the “ruling judge”.
Clause 1 - The “ruling judge” refers to the judge who initially has ruled the verdict, unless
the “assessment branch office of the supreme court” has nullified the ruling of the original
court, and has
ruled for stoning. In which case, the head of the aforementioned office or one of the
members in that office, upon recommendation of the head of that office, can execute the
stoning verdict.
Clause 2 - The absence or refusal of the “ruling judge” or witnesses for throwing the first
stone do not constitute reasons for suspension of the verdict. And in any case the verdict will
be executed by the order of the “executing judge”, unless the charge of fornication of the
convict is proved by statements of the witnesses, and witnesses have run away at the time of
stoning. Or, if fornication is proved by confession of the accused, but (s) he can manage to
escape from the hole in ground in which (s) he was buried. In these two cases the verdict
will not be executed and the “execution judge” will issue the order to suspend the verdict.
The same is true if the case falls under Article 71 of “Islamic Penal Law” approved in 1370
(1991 A.D.), in which case Clause 17 of that Article will be implemented.
Section 5:
Execution by Hanging
Article 24 – In execution by hanging, the prisoner will be hung on a hanging truss which
should look like a cross, while his (her) back is toward the cross, and (s)he faces the direction
of Mecca [in Saudi Arabia], and his (her) legs are vertical and distant from the ground. Then
the convict is left in that position for 3 days while the guards and the police watch him (her).
After the 3rd day, (s)he is dismounted from hanging pole. If (s)he is diseased, (s)he will be
buried after religious burial rituals, but if still alive, (s)he will be released and if medical
treatment is needed such treatments are allowed.
CHAPTER 2:
Implementation Methods for Verdicts that Involve Cutting of Body Parts
Article 25 – For implementation of verdicts that require cutting of body parts, in addition to
adhering to laws and regulations in “Islamic Penal Law”, conforming to Articles 1, 3, 4, 5, 6,
14, 15, 16, 18, 19 and 20 of this document is necessary.
3
Article 26 – The presence of a physician for confirmation and implementation of the contents
in articles 272, 275, 290, and 291 of “Islamic Punishment Law” is required.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

Rumi says:

Out of the Quran I draw the marrow; And throw away the bones to the dogs.

Now lets see if you are intelligent enough to decipher that.

Once you have figured it out, ask yourself if there is equality for women in Islamic cultures.

However, you live in America, that means you have no experience with Islamic culture. Weird that you would call yourself a Muslim then, reeks of wanting to belong to a group other than the group you were raised by. Maybe to piss them off, or psychologically distance yourself from them. Either way, you're an open book.

Ok Mister,
I have intelligently deciphered your message of wisdom

I opened the book just like you said,and there it was,

163 hadith found in 'Purification (Kitab Al-Taharah)' of Sunan Abu-Dawud

0007 Narrated Salman al-Farsi: It was said to Salman: Your Prophet teaches you everything, even about excrement. He replied: Yes. He has forbidden us to face the qiblah at the time of easing or urinating, and cleansing with right hand, and cleansing with less than three stones, or cleansing with dung or bone.

Yes there is equality for men and women. Neither man nor woman is allowed to wipe their butt with a bone or camel poop.
what did I win?

www.searchtruth.com...

Originally posted by redneck13
www.faithfreedom.org...

Nice site. It looks unbiased to me.
www.faithfreedom.org...
I like this part.

Religion is a pacifier; it’s useless but has great psychological benefits. People are like children. I don’t like cruelty to children and I will not take away what gives masses of people peace and comfort.

People just can't help it. However, a lot of religious leaders know better. In most cases it's about power. However, I met an atheist preacher who entered the clergy due to concerns about the youth. It's kind of weird to know that their are good atheists battling the evil atheists within the power structure of religion

reply to post by buster2010


Hi, I think you missed the point. I don't think anywhere in the OP post did it say Islam was the CAUSE of ALL the conflict only that they are involved in all of them. Have a nice day!

reply to post by redneck13




Ahmed Deedat - Highlights 06 (Is Jesus God?)

i think you should watch this , it will help you with your ignorance

Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

No ,
You believe Jesus wasn’t crucified
It was some one else in his place

Jesus created a false religion in his name
God helped him get away with it

He fooled millions of people before Mohammed came along

I guess you are looking for the answer to my question from yesterday
I found that little man to be very arrogant
And understands little about spirituality or the bible

Can we get back to my question now



Why did God and Jesus lie to millions of people to create a false religion?

reply to post by redneck13


that little man you speak of , has memorized not only the bible but the quran as well , do you research before you post uneducated answers

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


Therefore, I guess you see how badly the Quran is flawed.
I will not embarrass you by asking the same question repeatedly
It is obvious you do not have the answer.
The Quran contradicts itself there is no Holy inspiration there just satan
You just want me to take your word for it or the word of this pencil neck geek in this video
A parrot can also remember words doesn’t mean he can understand them
you want every to believe

God and Jesus deceived millions by faking the resurrection and creating a false religion

However, I still do not know why
Thanks for nothing

reply to post by redneck13

Shahadah
Salat: Prayer
Zakāt
Sawm of Ramadan:
Fasting
Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
Twelvers anyone? I think that completes my home work Mr. Profesional sir

So where in there does it advocate murder and ignorance and beheadings?

Please Address this post redneck:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You conveniently are trying to avoid it.

You have demonstrated earlier that you do not know very much about even the basics of Islam, yet you keep spreading pictures and stories of idiotic people.

If you do not know the basics of Islam, how do you know that the stories and pictures and videos your are spreading are actually representative of Islam?

Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere

 

Therefore, I guess you see how badly the Quran is flawed.
I will not embarrass you by asking the same question repeatedly
It is obvious you do not have the answer.
The Quran contradicts itself there is no Holy inspiration there just satan
You just want me to take your word for it or the word of this pencil neck geek in this video
A parrot can also remember words doesn’t mean he can understand them
you want every to believe

God and Jesus deceived millions by faking the resurrection and creating a false religion

However, I still do not know why
Thanks for nothing

edit on 10-6-2012 by redneck13 because: v

bwahaha , really ? i am sorry forgive my out burst , what was your question again ? , and what is your stance on religion ?

and why are you so hostile ? "pencil neck geek"? and i am sure that makes plenty of sens for a man to memories the bible and quran , and yet he does not understand it ? redneck seriously , please for the sake of it all , please think before you reply