Dont be belligerent in public, it could get you killed.....

Police on Monday shot dead a young man who reportedly became belligerent at a north Phoenix city park after he was turned away from using the swimming pool

www.azcentral.com... ngnews

why would you bother arresting anybody anymore. just pull out your guns and shoot him dead.

was he armed? or was he just shouting and screaming ?

two cops. couldn't arrest him. both opened fire on him. shot him dead.

politics.kfyi.com...

guy wants to go for a swim and ends up dead.

its getting very easy to get yourself killed these days.

its gonna be sooner rather than later before this all gets out of hand,

I agree, when TSHTF people are going to be afraid of ANY kind of interaction with the police, i can see people not willing to take the risks of dealing with them, especially after katrina, becoming hostile for their own safety.
It has certainly reached a point of extremity, when the people are afraid of the police and their ability to kill without just and proper cause.

The police are creating a self fulfilling prophecy with their acts of violence.
Gangs hating the police is one thing, but, an ordinary citizen under fear or duress could be even more dangerous if they don't know if the police is going to open up on their families or pets, or not.
Just because they are unable to control their emotional, and, anger issues is cause for concern for the majority of the law abiding population.

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

www.azcentral.com... ngnews

was he armed? or was he just shouting and screaming ?

Did you actually read the article in the first link you provided or did you purposely leave this info out to spark controversy?
From the article.....

Sgt. Trent Crump said a man who showed up with his 4-year-old child for swim lessons saw the young man in the parking lot with a baseball bat acting "high" and "behaving erratically," including threatening a child. The man called 911. Independently, park staff also called 911 on the man for reportedly striking a stick or bat against the building.

Two responding police officers contacted the man and at some point, he charged the officers, Crump said. Each officer fired two to three rounds, Crump said.

so yah he was armed and he charged them

zombies are pretty belligerent

reply to post by Agarta


I was just going to post that bit.

If he had a bat in hand, was acting like a nut and charged them with the bat then is a whole different thing.

Sometimes when on watch, and someone was not doing what I had told them to do, being in proper authority and in conformance with regulations and standing orders I sometimes would say

"Don't make me shoot you".

But that was sufficient to get the dirt-bags attention and I never did have to actually shoot anyone.

I am with the cops on this one...Improves the gene pool.

The whole point of having a pistol is to keep baseball bats and knives away.

They could have shot him in the legs!!!

reply to post by VoidHawk


Only in the movies...

They are trained to shoot for the center of the target, because they might miss.

This is pretty universal.

I do remember some training for reaction force on the ship they suggested when using the shotgun to bounce the shot off the deck to keep it low and take out legs. Never tried it so can not say whether it works or not.

Originally posted by kawika
They are trained to shoot for the center of the target, because they might miss.

I understand that but in this case its two cops with guns and one guy with a bat. It says he charged at them. That suggests there was some distance between them, did they at least attempt to shoot him in the legs? We've seen so many threads here on ATS where people, some innocent, have been killed because of the shoot to kill and dont ask questions rule.

reply to post by VoidHawk


It is surprising how fast someone will reach you with a knife or a bat.

One the decision is made to use deadly force, deadly force is used.

Besides if they shoot his legs he remains alive and can file a lawsuit. Cheaper to shoot for the center, and empty the whole magazine.

Originally posted by kawika

Besides if they shoot his legs he remains alive and can file a lawsuit. Cheaper to shoot for the center, and empty the whole magazine.

Ya got me there

This guy was in the parking lot acting crazy with a bat, hitting things, and threatening a child with it. IDK about anybody else here but, if somebody threatened my child with a bat, they would be laid out long before the police got their... Sounds like this guy got what he deserved

Well, cops taze when they dont need to and dont taze when they should. The guy acted stupid, no doubt about that but he may have been having a bad day, well not anymore he isnt, I bet his family is though.
My dad was a cop many years ago, before they had tazers, he faced down many bats, pool sticks and numerous other weapons, with his baton and fists.
How you ask? His training. They did and I assume they still do, train cops for these situations but now days they are either to lazy, scared or just dont care, just another scum off the streets in their eyes, permanently.

Originally posted by Agarta

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

www.azcentral.com... ngnews

was he armed? or was he just shouting and screaming ?

Did you actually read the article in the first link you provided or did you purposely leave this info out to spark controversy?
From the article.....

Sgt. Trent Crump said a man who showed up with his 4-year-old child for swim lessons saw the young man in the parking lot with a baseball bat acting "high" and "behaving erratically," including threatening a child. The man called 911. Independently, park staff also called 911 on the man for reportedly striking a stick or bat against the building.

Two responding police officers contacted the man and at some point, he charged the officers, Crump said. Each officer fired two to three rounds, Crump said.

so yah he was armed and he charged them

edit on 4-6-2012 by Agarta because: (no reason given)

Hi there.

I did actually read the article.

I did not leave out information to spark controversy.

The article when I first posted it did not have information on whether or not the victim was armed. This is new information that was added to the article. They are not also claiming the victim may have been on drug. Sure why not just throw that out there too. Keep the public happy. Just another dead drug user.

It does not seem that he actaully injured anyone. Yes he had a bat and was threatening. He did not harm anyone.

Whether or not US citizens are aware of it or not but there is clearly a 'shoot to kill' policy against any unruly citizens.

There could be better training given to officers in how to deal with more and more people under great stress in todays society but instead it does appear that its a case of shoot and kill first and then sort out the story later.

It is also clear from recent stories that officers are terrified of the public. THey think they have no choice but to reach for a gun.

Some day they will shoot someone dead and not be able to deal with the reaction they get from the public. Its only a matter of time.

Originally posted by kawika

Improves the gene pool.

All i can say to a comment like this is that Hitler would be very proud of you.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by kawika
They are trained to shoot for the center of the target, because they might miss.

I understand that but in this case its two cops with guns and one guy with a bat. It says he charged at them. That suggests there was some distance between them, did they at least attempt to shoot him in the legs? We've seen so many threads here on ATS where people, some innocent, have been killed because of the shoot to kill and dont ask questions rule.

Even in civilian firearm training they teach to hit center of mass. What would you rather do? Hit your attacker? or miss and accidentally have a bullet go through a wall and strike a child?

Bullets can go for miles ya know, and for each one you fire, its a seperate shooting incident legally....even for the cops. Then theres the liability factor.

If I have to shoot....yes....Im gonna aim for the chest...im not going to be cute and try a trick shot that bounces off their skull does a 180 and hits em in the arm pit.

trust me, its better this way.

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

It is surprising how fast someone will reach you with a knife or a bat.

One the decision is made to use deadly force, deadly force is used.

Besides if they shoot his legs he remains alive and can file a lawsuit. Cheaper to shoot for the center, and empty the whole magazine.

I think it is true that in the spur of the moment, when you think it's either going to be your life or theirs, it makes sense that deadly force is going to get used.

On the other hand, though, I think we've seen at least a few cases recently, where cops didn't actually need to use lethal force, but did so primarily because it was easier, and because they felt that they would probably get away with it.

So it seems that there is a fine line. I'm not saying that I think either perspective is right or wrong, but that I can see both sides.

reply to post by Juggernog


Probably just trying to live until retirement.

A worthy goal...

reply to post by lacrimaererum

Originally posted by kawika

Improves the gene pool.



All i can say to a comment like this is that Hitler would be very proud of you.
edit on 5-6-2012 by lacrimaererum because: (no reason given)

Honestly, a shoe in for a Darwin award.

Don't you agree?

Does this seem to you intelligent behavior? The cops have guns. Mess with them and they will shoot you. Not hard to foresee. A child can think that many moves ahead. We all know people like this. Most of us avoid spending time with them.

Now I wish that people like that were not like that, but they are, and this is what happens to them. So I stand by my observation that this could only improve the gene pool.

THE DARWIN AWARDS are given every year to bestow upon (the remains of) that individual, who through single-minded self-sacrifice, has done the most to remove undesirable elements from the human gene pool. Here are some current candidates:

www.lessmith.com...

Also, I think it's technically illegal to shoot to maim. if you are going to shoot somebody you legally have to shoot to kill. That's my understanding.

Interesting idea with the shotgun and bouncing it off the deck. Probably would work on most decks. or even on hard cement.

I'm actually in agreement with the cops on this one. plus a man charging you with a bat can get to you faster than you think. maybe quicker than you can pull a gun. So the reaction to shoot first and ask questions later is totally understandable in this case.

Also I am of the opinion that a guy with a knife in close quarters is much more dangerous than a guy with a gun. Knives make much worse wounds than most jacketed bullets. And they can make the wounds much faster. People know when they've been shot, it's loud there's a bang. not so with knives. often times people don't know that they've been stabbed in a fight until it's way too late. they think they are getting punched.
So shooting the guy. legit in this case.

I would have tried to talk him down a bit. who knows maybe the did try. maybe he just went after the cops the instant they arrived.