Secret War With China Uncovered

Well it looks like Australia has chosen its "godfather" because a secret 2009 defence white paper from the Rudd government has detailed a plan to fight a war with China!!

Here is a quote from the article;

New details have emerged that reveal a 2009 Australian government document included a secret assessment on the risks of a Chinese attack — and a detailed plan for possible military action against the superpower.

Those plans were not included in the public version of then-Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's 2009 defense white paper, which used strict terms such as "major power adversary" in order to not offend the Chinese, the Australian reports.

However, a new book has revealed that a secret chapter, not publicized with the white paper's release, contained a far stronger tone.

The Kingdom and the Quarry: China, Australia, Fear and Greed by the Australian's economics editor David Uren reveals that the plan would include "12 big conventional submarines with missiles, revolutionary Joint Strike Fighters, air warfare destroyers and giant landing ships".

The white paper detailed a plan that would involve blockading China:

"A major power adversary would be expected to respond to these blockades by mining and attacking ports."

"Part of the Defence thinking is that in the event of a conflict with the US, China would attempt to destroy Pine Gap, the US-Australia signals facility near Alice Springs, which is crucial for guiding US military operations in Asia ... the paper envisages a very different world in which Australian naval operations alongside the US in, say, the South China Sea, could lead to direct Chinese attack on Australia ..."

"The capability of China to reach out 5000km and touch Australia was a new element of the strategic environment."

Given that the US now has marines based in Australia, and tensions in the South China Sea seem higher than ever, the chapter seems rather prescient.

A release of diplomatic cables from Wikileak's in 2010 revealed that Australia's attempts to placate the Chinese didn't work, and Chinese officials were furious about just the public section of the White Paper. Rudd was also revealed to have told the US he was ready to use force if China didn't placate the international community.



Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

I'm not sure if this is in the right place so mods please move if need be, but regardless what do you guys think about this?

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


We have had plans to invade Canada en.wikipedia.org...

Canada also had plans for war with America en.wikipedia.org...

You'll notice neither ever did it.

Everybody has plans for war with their neighbors. That is just diligence. Hypothetical wargames happen a lot.

As to whether they'd do it, Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

We have had plans to invade Canada en.wikipedia.org...

You'll notice that we never did it.

Everybody has plans for war with their neighbors. That is just diligence. Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

Wow I never knew about that its very interesting. But your right most countries would have a "secret" plan for wars with their neighbours and China most likely has one for Australia too!! Even if Australia could hold off China in the event of a conventional war, all the Chinese would have to do is drop 3 nukes on Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne and it would be over.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

they also most likely wouldn't have much of a say since the bulk of the war would be fought between the superpowers with Australians as a reinforcement liason or proxy force...in their own country lol...

Correct me if I'm wrong..But isn't China the main trading partner of Australia?

The South China Sea situation is a little more complicated, as it involves several countries (Australia is not one of those).

But I'm guessing it's because of this scenario that's probably led to U.S troops are in Australia, so that the U.S has a presence in that region, IMO.

Anyway, this was dated from '09, so nothing has come of it..

Plus, every government has a plan for almost every single scenario you can think of.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

We have had plans to invade Canada en.wikipedia.org...

Canada also had plans for war with America en.wikipedia.org...

You'll notice neither ever did it.

Everybody has plans for war with their neighbors. That is just diligence. Hypothetical wargames happen a lot.

As to whether they'd do it, Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

edit on 1-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

We would smash canada like a seal...

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

As to whether they'd do it, Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

I agree that all competent militaries develop scores of contingency plans to deal with various "what if" scenarios and with Australia's geographic location as the southern anchor of the pacific rim makes China an obvious potential adversary.

As to your quote, speaking from a strictly military perspective if diplomacy has failed and conflict is deemed inevitable, it is preferable to fight a budding superpower than waiting for it to mature.

Fortunately for us all that is far from the case regarding the PRC.

reply to post by yourmaker


It's true. It's also sad because China is their best costumer of their exports. In the scenario of a war between NATO and China I could see the US taking their resources for their war effort. Hell, they'd need them badly.

Whoa, what I said applies to both Canada and Australia. I was originally talking about Australia

Originally posted by SmoKeyHaZe
Correct me if I'm wrong..But isn't China the main trading partner of Australia?

The South China Sea situation is a little more complicated, as it involves several countries (Australia is not one of those).

But I'm guessing it's because of this scenario that's probably led to U.S troops are in Australia, so that the U.S has a presence in that region, IMO.

Anyway, this was dated from '09, so nothing has come of it..

Plus, every government has a plan for almost every single scenario you can think of.

edit on 1-6-2012 by SmoKeyHaZe because: (no reason given)

Yes you are right, China is our number one trading partner. But funnily enough they need us and we need them, they need massive amounts of raw materials and Australia needs someone to buy them. The South China sea situation has been in tension for a few years now with the Phillipines and Vietnam both claiming territory. The US has more or less just butted in claiming they too have national interests in the South China sea so it creates a nervous situation for Australia who basically sits in between these two superpowers.
It might date from 2009, but I think its a "future" plan in the event of war.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by yourmaker

 

It's true. It's also sad because China is their best costumer of their exports. In the scenario of a war between NATO and China I could see the US taking their resources for their war effort. Hell, they'd need them badly.

Whoa, what I said applies to both Canada and Australia. I was originally talking about Australia

edit on 1-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

The U.S. military holds both a qualitative and quantitative advantage over the PLA, especially in naval force projection assets.

In the event of a total war of attrition the U.S. holds the same ace card as it did 70 years ago in that the might of the indigenous consumer industry is easily retooled for war.

China knows this as well.

It will happen, The us has a tech level advantage right now that will not last forever especially as chinas economy is ramping up, it will provide the money for the research tracks that america already has completed.
Im not talking about conv/weap, i mean the next generation, new world technology that we all know exists but is denied by government.
Sometime in the next 10-15 years if china starts it.
sometime in the next 8-10 years if the us starts it.
If a revolution kicks off in the us the chinese will try to organise a proxy presence with the revolutionaries and overthrow the current US state of world belligerance.
Too many things are lined up down the road for the US too make it through unscathed, australia and Nato's fate will be the same as the USA's.

sry but tl:dr the newspaper articles



where is the document - i see only some newspaper articles talking about a book from someone...is there a direct link to the document?

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

The U.S. military holds both a qualitative and quantitative advantage over the PLA, especially in naval force projection assets.

This is certainly the case now, but who knows what the situation will look like 10 years from now? 20 years from now?

In the event of a global economic meltdown China will have to change their course. They will no longer have the role of global export powerhouse. There will be unrest and unemployment. They will have massive trouble keeping their citizens in line. An external enemy would help to keep their regime in power. We make a perfect external enemy. In that event another part of you quote

the might of the indigenous consumer industry is easily retooled for war.

They have a massive industry suited to fulfilling the demand of the world's consumers. If it can be easily retooled for war they will have a more respectable military machine in a couple of years. They will likely have equipment and soldiers that are below US standards, but they are lacking the military tradition of the US and they subscribe to a different, mass attack type of warfare. Overwhelming numerical superiority with enough organization and training to hold it together. Done right it could do well for them. Done wrong it is an invitation for a massacre. I'm really only judging this from the Korean War, but they still have the manpower to make that a possibility.

In terms of Navy and Air Force the story will likely be similar. If I were them I would focus on submarine forces and aircraft carriers, with higher quantities and less size than their US counterparts, as well as many escorts to defend against US Supercarriers and submarines. If they continue with the hybrid design philosophy of the carrier they bought from Russia, being that it has twelve heavy missile launchers, they might expand the art of war a bit, providing it ends up being successful. But if it goes wrong then they would have been better off specializing.

With the Airforce they will likely copy the Raptor and JSF and do it on the cheap. Which could be a good thing considering how much graft went into these bloody programs.

But yeah, if they turn their industry to war the results could be scary.

Throw in the nuclear arms of both sides and # gets real scary real fast.

Originally posted by Hessdalen
sry but tl:dr the newspaper articles



where is the document - i see only some newspaper articles talking about a book from someone...is there a direct link to the document?

I'm sorry but they didn't provide a link to the white paper and I have no idea how they got hold of this information.

Originally posted by dayve

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

We have had plans to invade Canada en.wikipedia.org...

Canada also had plans for war with America en.wikipedia.org...

You'll notice neither ever did it.

Everybody has plans for war with their neighbors. That is just diligence. Hypothetical wargames happen a lot.

As to whether they'd do it, Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

edit on 1-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

We would smash canada like a seal...

What you want us to go burn your Capital again after a good beer's
Did not say we would win, but we would get her done 1812

reply to post by Trillium


Aye, you gave us a good whipping in the war of 1812, but you guys had the superpower of the day on your side.

New Orleans, though, andrew jackson bloodied your nose real good

Didn't the war basically end up a draw?

Umm China is not yet a superpower.

Good grief. If Australia didn't have plans regarding War with China I'd be horrified.

Every country plans for contingencies. I bet USA has plans that detail how it will invade Canada, or what they would do if Texas or Californa suceed from the Union.

Doesn't mean it's going to happen. It's about as likely to happen as an Ian Fleming novel.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Umm China is not yet a superpower.

Economically, yes, Militarily, still working on it.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

We have had plans to invade Canada en.wikipedia.org...

Canada also had plans for war with America en.wikipedia.org...

You'll notice neither ever did it.

Everybody has plans for war with their neighbors. That is just diligence. Hypothetical wargames happen a lot.

As to whether they'd do it, Australia most likely doesn't want to fight a war against a budding superpower

edit on 1-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

we won't count 1812


the way things are the Us and UKrael are pretty much guaranteeing that China will have lots of Allis