I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

So my boss went to a supplement store and asked for liposomal C and they told her ester C is the same thing. I read somewhere in this thread I believe that said it is NOT the same thing but told her I would look into it. However I skimmed through many pages and can't locate that post.

So is ester C the same thing?

Originally posted by Coopdog
So my boss went to a supplement store and asked for liposomal C and they told her ester C is the same thing. I read somewhere in this thread I believe that said it is NOT the same thing but told her I would look into it. However I skimmed through many pages and can't locate that post.

So is ester C the same thing?

edit on 30-1-2013 by Coopdog because: (no reason given)

Read This:

Why the Foundation Does Not Recommend Ester-C:

"Ester-C is not an ester. My late friend was a former scientist involved in biochemical warfare with a high security clearance. He dissected the patent and had several meetings with Dr. Virlangieri, one of the researchers that touted its virtues.

My friend favored good old ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate.

He told me quite literally that ester-C was "two pounds of 'dung' in a one pound bag." He was an avid Pauling devote and was concerned that under certain conditions, ester-C was dangerous and contraindicated.

The prevailing propaganda changed from its being an ester to its providing threonine metabolites. He told me that Pauling would have laughed the ester-C boys back to chemistry class! " R. L.

vitamincfoundation.org...

Ester-C® is Calcium Ascorbate, a unique, exclusive form of vitamin C. It is made using a proprietary, water-based manufacturing process that results in a pH neutral product containing naturally occurring vitamin C metabolites.

Source

EDIT TO ADD:

ESTER-C INGREDIENTS:
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving

Vitamin C (as Ester-C Calcium Ascorbate) 500 mg (1 g) 833%

Calcium (as Ester-C Calcium Ascorbate) 55 mg 6%

C-SorbTM Citrus Bioflavonoids Complex Citrus Bioflavonoids (Citrus sinensis) (fruit) Sweet Orange, Tangerine, Lime, Lemon, Acerola Rutin, Hesperidin Complex (Citrus spp.) (fruit) Naturally Occurring Vitamin C Metabolites
200 mg

Vitamin C (as Ester-C Calcium Ascorbate) 1,000 mg (1 g) 1,667%

Calcium (as Ester-C Calcium Ascorbate) 110 mg 11%

C-SorbTMCitrus Bioflavonoids Complex Citrus Bioflavonoids (Citrus sinensis) (fruit) Sweet Orange, Tangerine, Lime, Lemon, Acerola Rutin, Hesperidin Complex (Citrus spp.) (fruit) Threonate 200 mg

Cellulose (Plant Origin), Croscarmellose, CalciumSilicate, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate, Cellulose Coating

Source

It's just another tablet with calcium and a bunch of other crap added.

Your boss got really bad information

reply to post by dominicus


Thanks I needed that advice too.

I let my Lecithin sit for 3 hours after blending the heck out of it in hot water. Did the same with the vit C. I used the ultrasonic cleaner for a total of 16 min. Everything looked great but the next morning I noticed it had separated a bit to cover the bottom of the mason jar about 1/4 inch.

I used 1 cup water for the Lecithin...and 1/2 cup for the vit c.

Originally posted by sirric

Your concoction is too Vit C rich for full encapsulation hence your issues with the bathroom...

Good luck

Sirric

edit on 24/1/13 by sirric because: clarifiy statements

I have found if I havn't taken it for awhile I get a bathroom issue, but if I take it everyday there are zero issues. I take a mouthful in the mornings and I don't have a single problem, but i have good energy driving to work.

Well, very new to the thread and I read many great tips. I made an account just so I could participate in this. I made my first batch last night and let it set overnight in the fridge. I did not see any settling whatsoever in the bottom of the jar. I took a teaspoon before heading to work and seem to be more alert but Im not sure. Here was my exact process. Feel free to critique and give suggetions.

1. Heated up water on stove until very hot but not boiling, add it and 3 level teaspoons of lecithin granules (I got the NOW brand from Amazon) to the blender and blend for several minutes. After this I had a creamy orange-ish mix with a frothy head (about an inch or so of bubbles).

2. I mixed 1 level tablespoon of the absorbic acid powder (also NOW brand) into 1 cup of cold water (all referenced water is distilled) and mixed very hard until it seemed all gone and dissolved. Seemed like I stirred it by hand aggressively for about 15 minutes straight.

3. I added the dissolved AA mixture into the frothy lecithin mixture in the blender and blended for about 10 minutes in 30 second spurts with about 10 second breaks in between the spurts.

4. I then added the entire 2 cup mixture into the UC (the standard Sonic Care brand many people on here have utilized) and pulsated the mixture for about an hour until all the bubbles were gone. Just had to press the button to turn it back on every three minutes.

5. I poured the mixture into a mason jar and let it sit over night in the fridge. This morning i did not notice any "settling" ie. there was nothing in the bottom of the jar. It was a creamy mily white color and I took a teaspoon of the stuff and was out the door.

6. I seem to be more alert at the current time, but the placebo effect might be strong with me.

I do have some simple questions you guys might be able to help me with:

* Should I have put the lecithin mix in the fridge to cool it down after I blended it before adding the AA mix?

*I did not stir the mixture while it was in the UC. Should I have. I just kept turning it on until the bubbles were gone.

* My UC "warm" after about 35 minutes. I read some comments about heat having detrimental effects on Vit.C. Would the warmth of the UC be enough to cause harm to the VC?

* I've seen other comments discussing whether or not there was proper encapsulation. I searched the thread for a while and couldn't find the proper resoponse. How exactly can I tell if I have good encapsulation.

*I've seen other people add 1 ts of AA to 1/2 cup of water. Would that be a better way to go?

Ideas and comments would be greatly appreciated. And thanks for the great thread.

Hi guys, I've been following this thread from the start. I bought all the supplies online and they just arrived. I just whipped out the stuff and had it all set-up to make. However, I noticed I bought non-gmo lethicin granules instead of non-gmo soy lethicin granules. Will these lethicin granules work the same as soy lethicin granules? It will be no problem returning them to the online vendor and going to my local store to get soy.



EDIT- I don't understand this packaging. On the front of the lethicin, it says Non-gmo lethicin granules, under the ingredients it says non-GMO soy lethicin granules. The description on the back says lethicin is a naturally occuring compound found in plant and animal. IS IT SOY OR NOT, come on stupid packaging.



EDIT_EDIT- This is what I bought: www.amazon.com... /Now-Foods-Lecithin-Granules-Non-GMO/dp/B0001TRQY8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359748868&sr=8-3&keywords=lethicin+granules

reply to post by Drofton

* Should I have put the lecithin mix in the fridge to cool it down after I blended it before adding the AA mix?

Yes. Heat is bad for AA

*I did not stir the mixture while it was in the UC. Should I have. I just kept turning it on until the bubbles were gone.

YEs, the more you stir the better

* My UC "warm" after about 35 minutes. I read some comments about heat having detrimental effects on Vit.C. Would the warmth of the UC be enough to cause harm to the VC?

YEs, heat is bad for AA as mentioned above. I do a 15 minute run in my UC, transfer to cup, put in fridge to cool back down, allow UC cleaner to also cool down (takes about 25-45 minutes) then put the cooled down mix back in for another 15 minute run.

* I've seen other comments discussing whether or not there was proper encapsulation. I searched the thread for a while and couldn't find the proper resoponse. How exactly can I tell if I have good encapsulation.

There is a baking soda fizz test, or if you want to get more into it, there 2 other methods to make the Lipo-C. One is using a paint gun against a metal plate, and the other is using an extruder (sp?) device with syringes, which only does about 1-2 ml's at a time and is very slow, but encapsulation is 100%. I been doing the blender and UC method for 7 months now and it works for me and many others. I'm sure encapsulation isn't 100%, but the actual physical effects are just outright phenomonal for me

*I've seen other people add 1 ts of AA to 1/2 cup of water. Would that be a better way to go

Try 1 batch 1 way, an the other, the other way. I personally have always from the start used 1 cup for the lecithin and 1 cup for the AA.



reply to post by Concealer

I noticed I bought non-gmo lethicin granules instead of non-gmo soy lethicin granules. Will these lethicin granules work the same as soy lethicin granules? It will be no problem returning them to the online vendor and going to my local store to get soy.

The lecithin you have is Non-GMO soy lecithin. They just didn't use the word "soy" on the front of it.

A tiny fraction of folks on here haven't had good reactions to the soy so they switched to sunflower lecithin. Considering I have eaten many soy products in the past and am a huge eater of Miso soup (fermented soy soup)...my body was already used to soy products. I'm a male, pescaterian, mid 30's. I did switch to sunflower lecithin, however the women in my family who take this use non-gmo soy lecithin.

EDIT- I don't understand this packaging. On the front of the lethicin, it says Non-gmo lethicin granules, under the ingredients it says non-GMO soy lethicin granules. The description on the back says lethicin is a naturally occuring compound found in plant and animal. IS IT SOY OR NOT, come on stupid packaging.

Ur fine, it is soy. I had this one before, so relax. Consider sunflower next time.

Here is something that might be of interest. This is by no means conclusive because I haven't repeated the process.

These two double batches have been sitting for 24 hours. Both were made using six tablespoons of lecithin in two cups of water and one tablespoon of ascorbic acid in one cup of water. The two batches were made with identical procedures except that in the batch that has not settled I purposefully kept well below room temperature. I allowed the mixture that settled to get well above room temperature. No amount of blending seems to matter. In fact I have a heating function on my ultrasonic cleaner and as soon as the surface of the tub reaches a critical temperature (I think around 30C) the lecithin begins to form a dark orange gelatinous layer on the tub surface and this is what settles.

Now the question is which is the most effective mixture result and the reason I ask is that in laboratory processes for encapsulating compounds with liposomes the mixture must be heated above the lipid's phase transition temperature in order to effectively encapsulate the compound. Is this what is being seen here? Does this mean that we are trying to encapsulate the vitamin c below the phase transition temperature of the lecithin and mostly failing?

The second part of this two part YouTube video nicely explains the process.
Does anybody know off the top of their head what the phase transition temperature of lecithin is exactly and if it is above temperatures that are detrimental to ascorbic acid?

The second part of this video also explains and interesting technique where freezing and thawing of the mixture several times increases the volume of the compound encapsulated in the liposomes.

I will do some more testing in the near future. I'm not sure how to accurately measure liquid temperatures within the ultrasonic cleaner without effecting or destroying the temperature sensor. I have a thermal imager that I can use to measure temperature without contacting the target. I may be able to use it for this but I would really like to measure the temperature of the tub surface.

reply to post by dominicus


That worked perfectly for me....no separation..perfect amalgamation. I'm set to do a double batch tomorrow following precisely your direction.

I've read this thread till I'm dizzy.

Can anyone share a source for Sunflower Lecithin Powder?I found a source that could provide the product,but the shipping was outrageous.Another negative was that they would not take Paypal.That's not a deal killer,but the shipping was.

I suppose I could buy the softgels,but that would really be expensive doing it that way.

Anyone have a reasonable source?

Thanks.

Hey Coop!

I can't keep enough of this on hand for myself. Lately everyone around me has been getting sick. I gave a batch to a friend who had a sore throat, cough and body aches. He took it and within a short time his throat was no longer sore. He said the following morning his aches were gone. He is sold on it now. I had told him a month ago about this and he gave me a call out of the blue and wanted some of it. He has a couple friends who got very sick from it and had to go to the doctor and were having a very hard time getting well. He didn't want to get as sick as them.

Three nights ago, I had a friend and her husband take it after they told me they were getting sick. They had immediate results. The swelling in their sinuses was going down and their sore throats were getting better. The next day she went out and got all the things she needs to make this. I had told them about it many months ago. I'm glad they are finally taking this seriously. I'm used to people thinking I'm a flake.

Last night I took a batch to my parents. They both have bronchitis and had just gone to the doctor. My mom has a brain tumor and a weak heart, so I was very concerned that they take this immediately. My dad seems to get sick easily these days. It wouldn't take much for an older person to die of pneumonia.

So, I'm working on making a double batch for myself again.

Hi Slim!

And Amber, I know just what you mean, I am going to have to go buy some more canning jars as I keep giving them away too and got people all over the place using this stuff now and all of them very happy for the information and heads up on this amazing stuff.

It didn't slay my cold/flu thing quite as effectively as it did for a lot of people on here but maybe I had not been on it long enough when I got sick. The worst part was over in 3 days though and I think it may have shortened the symptoms of it all.

Peace...

reply to post by dominicus


Thanks for sharing your more detailed description of the process, as I have been having separation issues and I'm pretty much convinced that it is because it is getting too warm in the ultra sonic cleaner.

I will now do the "cool down" like you are and like "dainoyfb" shows above in the difference between the one at room temp and the one cooled.

I think the heat is doing something to the lecithin.

reply to post by Julie Washington


I agree with you about the heat affecting the lecithin. I never had separation issues until I started heating it. I can't let it stay in the blender too long either. After ten minutes it gets too warm.

I joined here just so I could be a part of this thread.

I am curious about something.

I blended the lethicin solution and the AA solution separately and then together. I was unable to finish with the ultrsonic cleaner and kept the combined solution in the refrigerator. It did not separate. It was definitely emulsified. This may be interesting in that the solution had a chance to rest. Wonder if that effects the liposome formation at all?

Anyone using other water soluble ingredients?
Thanks for this great thread. maggi

Found a great video I wanted to share.

Dr. Donsbach talks all about vitamin absorption rates and why liposomal is so great. Here is one video, but there is a whole series.




Also I've been reading the forum over at the Vitamin C Foundation and there is a thread that was started back in 2009 upon the discovery of liposmal lectithin and how to prepare it. You can read all the experimentation that went on with different amounts and these are mostly performed by Chemists. Lots of trial and error to get to the final recipe.

Vitamin C Forum

What I found curious is Dr. Donsbach says that the lectithin needs to be heated to 110 degrees to "open up the cells"., and then chilled to "close the cells". I've read that you want to keep the Vitamin C under 140 degrees, so this would appear to be a safe level of heat.

So I wonder if there is any benefit to making the lectithin with warm water, then add the AA to it while warm and then chill it in the refrigerator before putting it into the ultrasonic cleaner?

What I found curious is Dr. Donsbach says that the lectithin needs to be heated to 110 degrees to "open up the cells"., and then chilled to "close the cells". I've read that you want to keep the Vitamin C under 140 degrees, so this would appear to be a safe level of heat. So I wonder if there is any benefit to making the lectithin with warm water, then add the AA to it while warm and then chill it in the refrigerator before putting it into the ultrasonic cleaner?

That is interesting.

I found this
pharmaxchange.info...

The simplest method for preparing liposomes is hydration of dry lipid. The lipid is dissolved in organic solvent along with any lipid soluble compounds to be incorporated into the liposomes. The solvent is commonly removed by rotary evaporation resulting in a thin film of dry lipid. Some solvents can be removed by lyophilisation resulting in a dried lipid cake. An aqueous solution containing water soluble compound to be encapsulated is then added to the lipid film or cake to hydrate the lipid and form the liposomes. The aqueous suspension must be heated above the phase transition of the lipids in order for the liposomes to form. The resulting multilamellar liposomes consists of many concentric lipid bilayers. While all or most of the lipid soluble compounds will be incorporated into the bilayers of these lipsomes, the amount of water soluble compound entrapped is usually very low because these MLV’s (multilamellar vesicles) have a small captured volume. Very little aqueous solute penetrates the onion like layers of hydrated bilayer lipids. The captured volume of these MLV’s (multilamellar vesicles) can be increased by freezing and thawing the liposomes several times. Repeated freezing and thawing ruptures and reforms the MLV’s resulting in an increased number of liposomes with fewer layers of lipids and more aqueous space inside each liposome. Thus the freeze-thawed liposomes encapsulate more aqueous solute and often have a multi-vesicular morphology. The aqueous solute is now uniformly distributed inside each liposome.

What this says to me is that a "best DIY practice" to get the smallest liposomes filled with AA might be

dissolving vitamin C first

then heating the lethicin granules in the solution less that 140 F

then freezing, thawing and

THEN blending for several minutes then sonicating to reduce the size of the liposomes?
What do you think? Maggie

High shear methods (such as sonication, homogenization and microfluidization) are used to reduce multilamellar liposomes to unilamellar liposomes at a lowest size limit.

reply to post by maggi

dissolving vitamin C first

This is something all the recipes call for, is to dissolve the Vit C in water.

then heating the lethicin granules in the solution less that 140 F

I already do this. Pour almost boiling water into the lecithin, then blend for 5-10 mins

then freezing, thawing and

On the Lipo C yahoo groups, the people that use the paint gun method, many of them do 2 cycles of freeze and thaw. I just cool down the blended almost boiled water w/ lecithin mix and let it soak over night. Then the next day I mix the Vit c dissolved water with the lecithin water, which the blender and the ultrasonic cleaner heat them both up anyway, so all in all there are a number of temp changes going on.

I looked into whether or not Vit C gets damaged when frozen, but can't really find much. Perhaps someone else can help out here with some research. I found graphs and info on Vit C loss in frozen Vegetables, and it says the when frozen, some Veg losses Vit C, while others, like peas and spinach retain the Vit C.

THEN blending for several minutes then sonicating to reduce the size of the liposomes? What do you think? Maggie

If there is no damage to the Vit C when freezing, and if the freeze/thaw does actually help in forming Lip C, I'm all for it then

I just wanted to chime in....85 pages later, haha. I read this months ago, and I really wanted to try it. But I just didn't have the money for the supplies. Finally got all the stuff three weeks ago, and I have been taking it ever since. It really is amazing, at least to me. I just feel better. That's all there is to it. I wake up easier and less groggy in the morning and my energy level is higher throughout the day. I get a lot more done during the day, simply because I feel better. My skin used to be horribly dry and itchy, and it isn't the least bit dry anymore. Before, I had flaky skin on my face and my legs were ashy. Now my skin is smooth and soft like im using a ton of lotion...but I'm not. I can run my nails up my legs and leave no dry marks.

As a side note, I had found a recipe for vitamin c serum for skin a couple of days ago, which is just ascorbic acid crystals, distilled water, and glycerine, and since I already had the crystals I made some of that, too. Yesterday I was starting to get a horrible cluster of about four fever blisters on my lip, and I put some of the serum on it before bed. Today, absolutely no fever blisters and no pain where they were starting to come up. That REALLY amazed me.

This is definitely worth it.

I forgot to add that when I made my first batch, I had a pretty bad cold. Coughing, stopped up nose, very sore throat. By the next day all tht was gone and I haven't been sick since. I have three little kids, so sickness runs rampant in my household, lol. Usually it's something new every few days. But I feel awesome and have since I started using this. I take a shot glass full twice a day.