Hitler/Nazis are Right Wing and not Left Wing. Don't be fooled by lies.

Hitler and the Nazis are

RIGHT WING

and not

LEFT WING.


In my wanderings on the internet, I have recently been astounded to see some people claiming Hitler and the Nazis were "leftist." I had no idea that anyone on planet earth would seriously advance this argument, which struck me as too silly for debate. But I see this meme on the internet more and more, and I've seen it in some ATS threads, so as a leftist and a Communist (one who ought to know, right?), let me clear a few things up for you.

Hitler and the Nazis were right wing. This is how they considered themselves, this is how their current neo-nazi successors consider themselves. Its how everyone considered them in their heyday: The Russian Communists, the US Capitalists, the various European and Asian nations: All knew the Nazis were the voice of the far right. This is how history has always considered them, outside of a few isolated lunatics on the internet, that is. Go to ANY university and ask a professor of history or political science whether the Nazis were "right" or "left" and I guarantee you will get "right" for an answer 99.999% of the time. And it was never a question when they were in power. Hitler CLEARLY situated ANTI-COMMUNISM as a core facet of his political vision.



Above: Not exactly a cuddly relationship. Communists lost far more (in both lives and material destruction) battling Nazis than the Western democracies in WWII.


This is how the political spectrum has traditionally been thought of by academics, journalists, politicians, political scientists, theorists, and just-plain-normal people who don't inhabit fringe message-boards. Below is a decent example of the standard, garden-variety, traditional political spectrum. Note that Communism and Nazism are just about as far from each other as is possible:



This above was what your parents and grandparents were taught in highschool (assuming they went) and if you go to a high school or college today where such things are discussed and pay attention, its what you'd be taught too.

So why do a few isolated weirdoes persist in arguing the Nazis were "leftist?" A few reasons. One of the crudest arguments is that "the word "Nazi" is short for "national socialism" which contains the word "socialism," which is left, right?" If this is the fundamental piece of evidence (as it is so often is presented), then the person pushing this shoddy argument will have to concede that North Korea is a democracy and a republic because it is the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea." We both know that's ridiculous. Claiming the Nazis were socialist is even more ridiculous. Hitler used that word for the resonance it had with the workers he wanted to attract, but make no mistake: His ideology in both fact and theory are as far from leftism as its possible to get.

Beyond this simple ruse, some people may be arguing based on a skewed understanding of one of the "four-quadrant" political spectra. These models seek to provide a more realistic or nuanced picture of politics by considering additional factors and adding other"dimensions" to ideological classifications. Some of these are pretty good and useful, most are not. None are really universally accepted or widespread in academics or political theory. The most common of these schema usually have the traditional "left-right" scale horizontally and add a vertical axis with "authoritarian" and "libertarian," or "rigid" and "free", etc. Here is one simple example I consider more or less reasonable:



Note that Hitler (Nazi) and Stalin (Communist) are still extreme opposites in the right-left dimension. What some people are latching onto is the fact that they are both authoritarian. There is a slippery and intellectually dishonest attempt by some to make that mean "they are the same" and to position "libertarian" as equivalent to "right-wing," but as you can see it is a distortion of this schema above that just doesn't work.

There are other "four-quadrant" models like this, some quite complex. I won't bother to deconstruct them here, but I will note in passing that most of them have agendas and try to paint people they disagree with into a certain corner, so most of the examples floating around on the net seem to my eye to be dishonest and manipulative.





Above: "Antifa," or the Anti-Fascist Movement, is a vigorous leftist position that particularly targets the neo-Nazis and other far-right today. Its roots go back to the 1930s, when German Communists risked their lives and freedom to fight the Nazis, often ending their days in concentration camps. The historical (and present-day) antagonism between the hard-left and far-right is enduring evidence of one of history's deepest ideological divides.


Turning to a deeper question, why are some people now seeking to re-write history and political theory to make it seem that the Nazis were "left"???. This is where it gets interesting (conspiracy? Or something simpler?) If you have any ideas please share. For my own part, I believe this is a meme that is being spread on the net by many on the right who are simply uncomfortable standing on the same side as Hitler. These folks may identify as conservatives, neocons, or libertarians, and thus see themselves on the right. They are proud right-wingers, and yet (with very good reason, of course) are embarrassed to share "the right" with evil as enormous as the Nazis. Neoconservatism, which tends to be very pro-Zionist, may be particularly shamed by this uncomfortable similarity. Libertarians, too, try to argue that "right really is libertarian and all authoritarians are leftist". It's like they are trying to roll the four-quadrant model above into some kind of weird cone or something to deny the authoritarian right, but its a topology fail, boys. But still they try.

And thus, with neocons, libertarians, and garden-variety conservatives all feeling queasy about their Nazi neighbors on the spectrum, a spontaneous meme-campaign begins: "Push Hitler to the Left. Let our enemies on the Left be stained by the evil of the Nazis, not us." Like little boys trying to push the veggies around on the plate to make it look eaten. Feed the broccoli to the leftist pet dog, mom won't notice.

While I understand and applaud non-far-right rightists for rejecting the Nazis, I'm afraid you can't just click your heels and make Hitler's right-wing legacy go away. Its too much a part of history and the intellectual geography of political theory. And believe me, we ain't taking him over here on the left. Millions of dead Communists bear mute witness to the struggle against Hitler and Nazi-ism. Ask any real, dedicated, hard-core actual card-carrying Communist such as myself, and then (if you can stand the stench) seek out an actual Nazi or Neo-Nazi (they are out there, unfortunately). We agree on very little, but BOTH of us will tell you that we are left and they are right, and a chasm of eternal mutual struggle separates us. And at the end of the day, that's the only agreement you are likely to get out of a real leftist and a real Nazi.



Shoo! Get back over there on the right where you belong!

LEFT or RIGHT does it really matter. No need to defend your leftist beliefs.

I thought it was already decided they were right wing???

Not that it doesn't become hard to seperate the hard right with the hard left anyway

ETA: I also took the test from which you pulled the third image.. If I remember correctly, I was near Ghandi

reply to post by BioSafe


Go far enough right or left and they end up becoming the same thing. Communism is considered far left and Fascism is considered far right. Stalin and Hitler had a hell of a lot more in common than they had different in terms of how they ran their states and treated their people. Stalin killed a hell of a lot more of his own people though.

Originally posted by Sinny
I thought it was already decided they were right wing???

You thought correctly! Which is the point of my thread. I'm trying to address those who refuse to see this basic and obvious reality, with a long history behind it. I'm sure a few will be along to join our discussion eventually.

Wow,what an awesome post.

You are right. Hitler was right.

One of the things that motivated him was how the communists caused strikes when he was fighting against the French on the front lines in WW1. It was at a time when the Germans were starting to gain the upper hand because they had dealt with the Russians pretty much and could now focus on one front instead of two.

Hitler was so upset that his own people would strike against its own Military. He rightly,blamed the communists. The communist traitors lost the War for Germany.

Then he comes back to Germany after the war has ended and the place is being run by communist thugs. These communists thugs are one of the primary things that motivated him to get into politics. His father had been involved in politics but Hitler had no interest until he had come back to a Germany run by traitor thugs.

The traitor Red Devil strikes are also why Hitler was so anti-unions. He took away the right to strike. He pretty much did away with unions.

Anyway,I agree. Hitler was right for sure.


edit- not that these Red Devils represented true communism. They were 'communist' though.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by BioSafe

 

Go far enough right or left and they end up becoming the same thing. Communism is considered far left and Fascism is considered far right. Stalin and Hitler had a hell of a lot more in common than they had different in terms of how they ran their states and treated their people. Stalin killed a hell of a lot more of his own people though.

edit on 31-5-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

Some would agree with you, and posit the so-called "Horseshoe spectrum."



The problem with this is that it only looks at limited factors. As I wrote in the first post, both Hitler and Stalin were authoritarian but this is not the only dimension that matters. Countless other differences outweigh the similarity of this one factor. For example, under Communism the state controls the means of production, but in Nazism, big and traditional industrial combines like Krupps or I.G. Farben ruled the economy. That's a huge difference. Nazism had the old aristocratic ideals and was well-disposed to nobles and elites; Communism is never this way. Nazism is racist, communism is universal. Nazism said the weak had to die to promote social Darwinism; Communism protects the weak and is the champeon of the downtrodden and oppressed. There are many more differences; perhaps we'll look at some others in this thread too.

reply to post by Leftist


I am curious...why did you create this thread? You have stated that you are a communist...are you a nazi too? and if so...why?

reply to post by Leftist


Overall, you are correct (can't beleive I am saying that to a communist). I like the "four square" model as well, a bit more accurate.

However; i would say the main reason some are now describing the Nazi's as leftist has to do with (as you mentioned) the "socialist" part of "national socialist". While Nazi'a certainly are on the right side of the paradigm, within the third reich there were significant parts of German society that were socialist leaning. The german "workers' were key to the reich, and had to be kept pacified, lest they convert to communists, Hitler's enermy. However; within several policies within Germany there were several aspects that were deemed socialist (they could be summed up as ("a chicken in every pot, a volkswagen in every garage" policies, in which all Germans (workers and soldiers especially) would have a basic standard of living that the government supported. That's straight from socialism.

That also transends over to today. When you look at both administrations they take equal campaign money from corporations (although the coorporations ideology is often a factor in what funds are received by whom), and the current left administration is part and parcel in with the corporations (GM, Solindra). Same thing Hitler did. In some ways Hitler played both the corporations ideologies (right-usually) and the workers ideology (left) against each other in a manner where both served the Reich. While slave labor was used (ultimate in corporatism) German workers would get standard wages and benefits (socialism). Some commentator's (Glenn Beck being one) are making similiar comparisons to the current administration, and pointing out the leftist sides of Nazism are being used in somewhat similar fasion today.

Most of my poltiical science professor's (which happens to be my degree) beleived the left right paradigm was largely obsolete, and when you get to the extreme ends of the line (fascism/communism) you end up with totalitarian states either way, they just had different starting ideologies. And that's bad, whether it's fascism, communism, or some sort of anarchism.

reply to post by Germanicus


You are also correct! If you read Hitler's book Mein Kampf (Which I have - I can't be an anti-Nazi without understanding the enemy's mind), he devotes a lot in the early part of the book to his hatred of Communism and Unions. The hatred when he talks about these is palpable, it floats off the page like a foul stench.

The difference is also apparent in the cultural aspect, which is more than skin-deep: Nazis are Nationalists, masculine in aesthetics, traditionalist, racial supremicists, social Darwinists, social elitists, and religiously inclined to the mystical/occult. ALL of this is EXPLICITLY rejected by Communism. These are all extremes of right-wing values.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Leftist

 

I am curious...why did you create this thread? You have stated that you are a communist...are you a nazi too? and if so...why?

Yes I am a Communist. No I am not a Nazi. It is impossible to be both. They are opposites, as I tried to demonstrate.

I started this thread because I recently see on the Internet growing numbers of people arguing "Nazis are left." This is incorrect, and I want to demonstrate this to anyone who seeks to associate Nazis with the left. These people are a small minority, but they are growing and I consider their disinformation/ignorance/lies to be dangerous in addition to being factually incorrect.

Says the leftist....

And that last pictures the one guy looks like a hatchet man ... and im a juggalo and take offense...

reply to post by Leftist


You're right!
Stalin was a Communist.
Wait...

reply to post by LeoStarchild


What does that have to do with the topic?

Did anyone actually read it or are they throwing out clever little quips because they can't contribute?

reply to post by The Sword


Im saying its fitting for a leftist ...brandishing a Chinese avatar to be calling Right wings Nazis ... pssh

get a clue

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
reply to post by Leftist

 

Overall, you are correct (can't beleive I am saying that to a communist). I like the "four square" model as well, a bit more accurate.

However; i would say the main reason some are now describing the Nazi's as leftist has to do with (as you mentioned) the "socialist" part of "national socialist". While Nazi'a certainly are on the right side of the paradigm, within the third reich there were significant parts of German society that were socialist leaning. The german "workers' were key to the reich, and had to be kept pacified, lest they convert to communists, Hitler's enermy. However; within several policies within Germany there were several aspects that were deemed socialist (they could be summed up as ("a chicken in every pot, a volkswagen in every garage" policies, in which all Germans (workers and soldiers especially) would have a basic standard of living that the government supported. That's straight from socialism.

That also transends over to today. When you look at both administrations they take equal campaign money from corporations (although the coorporations ideology is often a factor in what funds are received by whom), and the current left administration is part and parcel in with the corporations (GM, Solindra). Same thing Hitler did. In some ways Hitler played both the corporations ideologies (right-usually) and the workers ideology (left) against each other in a manner where both served the Reich. While slave labor was used (ultimate in corporatism) German workers would get standard wages and benefits (socialism). Some commentator's (Glenn Beck being one) are making similiar comparisons to the current administration, and pointing out the leftist sides of Nazism are being used in somewhat similar fasion today.

Most of my poltiical science professor's (which happens to be my degree) beleived the left right paradigm was largely obsolete, and when you get to the extreme ends of the line (fascism/communism) you end up with totalitarian states either way, they just had different starting ideologies. And that's bad, whether it's fascism, communism, or some sort of anarchism.

A nice and well-thought out post, thank you.

I understand why some of these factors may be used to give Nazism a superficially leftist gloss. So-called "Strasserism" was a more left-leaning strain of Nazism that Hitler eventually crushed. Hitler was playing the left and right wings of his own party off each other, so sometimes he'd sound a bit leftist if he was playing up to that side. Hitler was a politician as well as a theorist and as such he knew how to be slippery and use doublethink and doubletalk to accomplish pragmatic needs.

In a way you make a good point because people use the concepts of "left" and "right" in two different ways 1) as a tool for getting an objective picture of ideology and 2) As a weapon to accuse your enemy or smear him with unpopular views. These terms are not only descriptive: they are polemical and used by people of *all* political stances in situations where seeking the truth is secondary to attacking your opponant.

reply to post by SrWingCommander

Most of my poltiical science professor's (which happens to be my degree) beleived the left right paradigm was largely obsolete,

Thats my view, too. Political spectrum is in reality very multidimensional and continuous. Left-right paradigms or those two-axis diagrams should be recognized as quite limited aproximations. Like trying to stick a circle into a rectangular hole, it will never fit very well. There are literaly as many political ideologies as human beings.

Why even post a thread like this? Are you trying to frame the inevitible "conservatives are nazis so lets exterminate them" arguement?
You do realize that, just like in germany during the war, you will be disposed of after you spark the moment. So why advocate for the globalist agenda? Did you know that hitler wanted a nwo too?
You are doing the work of the anti-human death cult that is struggling for breath.
Humans are resilient and we will never forget. Our current happening are recorded in stone to make sure of it

Originally posted by Leftist
reply to post by Germanicus

 

You are also correct! If you read Hitler's book Mein Kampf (Which I have - I can't be an anti-Nazi without understanding the enemy's mind), he devotes a lot in the early part of the book to his hatred of Communism and Unions. The hatred when he talks about these is palpable, it floats off the page like a foul stench.

The difference is also apparent in the cultural aspect, which is more than skin-deep: Nazis are Nationalists, masculine in aesthetics, traditionalist, racial supremicists, social Darwinists, social elitists, and religiously inclined to the mystical/occult. ALL of this is EXPLICITLY rejected by Communism. These are all extremes of right-wing values.

Ha!

So smart. Not many people like you around.

And please dont think I was ripping on communism there. There is alot about communism that I like.

Left wing,right wing bunk! They are both attached to the same damn bird,with one governing head.Good cop,bad cop.People need to wake upto that fact.It's a scam.