What was God's reason to be a creator?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I love the explanation of your green avatar guy, he is very cute-- I sorta could see all that mystery and truth about him. i knew you must have a good story behind him--- Now I find it even more interesting-- i will have to think about all that---So, like are you saying there are 'others' scanning what we say here, for some purpose? but what would that be? Or is that not what you meant?

Completely off topic here--- I was actually wondering what
this sticky face means I wanted to use it as saying "i told a "goofy" joke' i was not sure that was the right sticky face ---

I Love your Avatar--- i don't know how to post one for me---

reply to post by Astyanax


I have to respectfully disagree. I do not think desire makes perfection paradoxical. I think desire can be a very good trait.

eta: I do understand your premise, I just don't agree.

eta again(thought of a good analogy to explain my premise):

If I give super rich guy all the money in the world he would not lack any money but it still would not satisfy his desire.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

I will indulge your desire for argument just once more.

What is your definition of evil? I define it as the failure or refusal to avoid causing avoidable suffering to a living being. If God has all His traditional attributes, it should be possible for Him to create a world in which there is no suffering, yet people are free to do as they willed. Plainly, we do not live in such a world. Therefore, either God is evil, or God does not exist.

Please consider that, as a formerly religious person who was compelled to become an atheist chiefly because of the problem of evil, I have probably gone into the question more deeply than you have. Still, if you or another poster can suggest a solution to the problem that I have not seen before, I will respond.

Until then, I shall ignore all further posts on the subject in this thread.

reply to post by Astyanax


Evil can only be judged by intent. You cannot be judged to be evil for protecting yourself from someone.

And you have to know God's intent to know if he is evil.

He may be using suffering because it is the best way to show us why causing others grief is bad.

His intent may be good. Just saying.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

I will indulge your desire for argument just once more.

What is your definition of evil? I define it as the failure or refusal to avoid causing avoidable suffering to a living being. If God has all His traditional attributes, it should be possible for Him to create a world in which there is no suffering, yet people are free to do as they willed. Plainly, we do not live in such a world. Therefore, either God is evil, or God does not exist.

Please consider that, as a formerly religious person who was compelled to become an atheist chiefly because of the problem of evil, I have probably gone into the question more deeply than you have. Still, if you or another poster can suggest a solution to the problem that I have not seen before, I will respond.

Until then, I shall ignore all further posts on the subject in this thread.

just because the god of the bible has some malevolent traits doesn't mean he's 100% evil.
and doesn't disprove his existence.. it just shows his imperfection .. Gnostic teachings label the god of the bible the Demiurge.. a creation OF the True God, who's purpose is to manage this universe.

bad kiddies need a disciplinarian principal....

so in the kindergarten for souls.. this .. 5-sense-prison we currently in habit.. in our "second temple" bodies...
can be viewed as training suits for our own spiritual growth... in a massive lifetimes long test that tests whether we're ready for the "third temple" body of dietic proportions... and ability..

i think coming to the athiest conclusion just because the god of the bible shows evil aspects is a short coming on yoru behalf. but.. each to their own...

reply to post by Bleeeeep

That argument of Astyanax doesn't understand the nature of love, how it must be free, nor how the twin pillars of justice and mercy were/are upheld both at the same time, so that we might again be liberated for the sake of freedom to freely love as we are loved.

They are old arguments who make a whole heap of assumptions born of a strong negative bias against any mention of the word "God".

Pay him/her no heed.

reply to post by davidtheriault


lots of opinions - but I believe God told us himself why. Because he wanted to be worshipped

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me

and other versions

reply to post by davidtheriault


Loneliness.

Experience.

Self-worth.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

I will indulge your desire for argument just once more.

What is your definition of evil? I define it as the failure or refusal to avoid causing avoidable suffering to a living being. If God has all His traditional attributes, it should be possible for Him to create a world in which there is no suffering, yet people are free to do as they willed. Plainly, we do not live in such a world. Therefore, either God is evil, or God does not exist.

My definition of evil is deception. God is truth. Truth is what is. Evil is opposition to what is- opposition to God. Evil is deception. Therefore, evil hasn't been created, but has taken what has been created and poisoned it with lies, delusion, and confusion.

A belief in something that isn't real is succumbing to an evil agenda. It is the epitome of insanity. Sufferring, caused by desire, is caused by wanting that which you don't have, wanting that which doesn't exist yet for you.

What is created is what exists. What is evil is what doesn't exist, but is made to believe that it exists.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

I will indulge your desire for argument just once more.

What is your definition of evil? I define it as the failure or refusal to avoid causing avoidable suffering to a living being. If God has all His traditional attributes, it should be possible for Him to create a world in which there is no suffering, yet people are free to do as they willed. Plainly, we do not live in such a world. Therefore, either God is evil, or God does not exist.

Please consider that, as a formerly religious person who was compelled to become an atheist chiefly because of the problem of evil, I have probably gone into the question more deeply than you have. Still, if you or another poster can suggest a solution to the problem that I have not seen before, I will respond.

Until then, I shall ignore all further posts on the subject in this thread.

But here is where you are wrong, you are seeing every (possible) negative as a bad thing... when all things can be used for our betterment or our detriment. It is we who determine if an evil committed will be reflected with evil, or if we personally use what happened for our own good.

I live every single day of my life in pain, every single day.. and I am not talking a small amount, supposedly it is beaten in severity by only terminal cancer... except I do not get the pleasure of dying.

I am like this because of evil, because of a war I did not ask for, because of bombs and bullets not fired by me...

I had a choice, hate like nothing you have ever seen, and wreak vengence upon all those who did this to me and/or caused it to be done... or forgive others, and learn to use the pain to my advantage...

I forgave, and learned to use pain to my advantage.... I will be perfectly honest, even though there are moments I am anger, or I am afraid, or I am many things, what I have gained, what I have become because of all that happened and all that I have to deal with daily.... has made me a million times better person than what I ever would have been had none of this happened to me...and for that, the anger I can overcome.

this is my trial, and I am using it to become something pure.... what are you using?

We can all take the trials in life and make them into positive experiences, I would not part with my pain now, if given a choice I would keep this pain, because it does much more good than it ever did bad... it is only in the mind that things are 'bad'... regardless of anything, 'bad' is only what we make of an event...

and by the way... since we all must die, and death is our release from all this, you cannot for a moment tell me death is a bad thing, we are none of us going to live forever, so death just death...

I used to pray for death, spent 6 months of my life with a gun beside my hand just trying to make it though the next 5 minutes without pulling the trigger.....Death would have been a pleasure.. trust me....

but I learned to make the pain a pleasure, and learned how to overcome it, how to become stronger, and how to be who I am supposed to be.... I would not give it up now for anything... because now I understand so much more

my definition of evil is that which refuses to be in obedience to God, evil is to disobey God, evil opposes anything of God...

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Yes, yes, I understand, and I agree with you.

Your very honest and beautiful post reminded me of this--- I had a wonderful spiritual teacher his name was William Samuel, he had been a Captain of Infantry in www2 and Korea---he knew just what you are talking about and wrote some wonderful books that teach what you are sharing here

and he gave me this poem and I do think it is so rich and tender and true:

The Simple Words of a Confederate Soldier

I asked God for strength that I might achieve
I was made weak that I might learn humbly to obey

I asked for help that I might do greater things
I was given infirmity that I might do better things

I asked for riches that I might be happy
I was given poverty that I might be wise

I asked for all things that I might enjoy life
I was given life that I might enjoy all things

I got nothing that I asked for
Oh, but I got everything I had hoped for

Despite myself, my prayers were answered
I am, among all men, most richly blessed.

Anonymous---Confederate Soldier

reply to post by davidtheriault


Whether you're a believer of God or not - one thing we can all agree on.

God's reason to be a creator can be summed up by Jesus Christ's simple but powerful words of wisdom:

"quoniam ipse dixit beatius est magis dare quam accipere"

“There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving.”—Acts 20:35,

reply to post by Sweetmystery


mashAllah that is a beautiful poem....thank you for sharing that treasure

I will look for books written by this man, i havent heard of him before... i would enjoy to read his writings

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

A belief in something that isn't real is succumbing to an evil agenda. It is the epitome of insanity. Sufferring, caused by desire, is caused by wanting that which you don't have, wanting that which doesn't exist yet for you.

What is created is what exists. What is evil is what doesn't exist, but is made to believe that it exists.

real?

having selfish agendas within your own perserverence is defineably evil IF it encurrs the suffering of other portions of concious existence....

ie: we as humans cause suffering on other humans by the very fact that our financial system allows certain folks to aqquire certain levels of obscent wealth while others are left shafted in the dumps with no resources to base their otherwise wasted talents upon....

millions of homeless individuals with millions of talents... wasted because of the current financial circumstances...

millions of deadbeat heiresses and inheritance drug snorting party-goers wasting away currency that could go toward human potential uprising our civilization to the tops of the galactic community.. but no...


that's f@#@in' EVILLL man.... bare and brazen in your FACE.

not something that "hasn't happened".. it's THERE... it's the opposition to all that is ligically sound.. all that is reasonable!

hail meritocracy! hail thermoeconomics!
hail destruction of the old world order which so many vehemently stand for!

reply to post by davidtheriault

Perhaps GOD does not exist in the way you think t does.
Split Infinity

reply to post by imherejusttoread


A christian physicist.....isnt that a paradox of sorts?

reply to post by GrandHeretic


Unless Jesus is in the matrix

I made you all so that you could just live, and eventually ask me why.

Pretty cool, huh?

Entertainment or study? Come on, think a little harder than that.

I personally believe, the whole reason this all exists - is love, love, love. What is the one thing God doesn't have?

A family. Someone to love. This is why we call him "Abba" - Father. The Son is how we get to the Father - the Church becomes His bride. We're joined together in perfect unity, that is, when all is said and done. Mankind can't get to God alone by "good deeds", because we've all committed evil in our life. Instead, God came into the flesh (the Son) to carry the full burden of the cross. His resurrection means your sins, and mine, and everyone's, are forgiven. Of course, not believing in the Son is a sin itself, and choosing to reject him means you're wanting to take on your sins by yourself. Good luck with that..

God made his creation, and gave us life, and a chance to be with Him for all eternity, in perfect unity.

He's made it really easy, too. Just believe in the Son, whom took your sins and erased them with his death, purchasing your salvation with his blood.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Love in the form of companionship or worship or both?

Considering there's like 7? levels of heaven - why make our realm?