Pacifism is cowardice!

Originally posted by seaside sky
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire- I agree.

My policy is to walk away when a fight doesn't matter, persuade to the extent that I can when it does matter, but the cold truth is that, when confronted with those who threaten, it's time to fight and fight hard, and I will do that.

I think this is pretty much the textbook description of how things should be done when it comes to the use of violence. In the Swedish Army we had a rule; For every amount of violence we used in the line of duty, we had to be able to justify it in a court of law. Only as much violence as the situation required, was allowed. Makes sense, doesn't it?

reply to post by Germanicus



Interesting how the " warrior " way of life is almost extinct.
Society has to have rules or there would be anarchy.

Nobody will ever praise a violent man .!!

Originally posted by The X
It is a part of evolution as a species, we either continue to be emotionally, spiritually bereft, incapable of solving anything other than by violence, or, we all eventually progress.
In time we will all progress.
To say it is ok to use violence for one reason or another, implies that it is ok to use violence.
It is not for you to label "Pacifists" as weak, My understanding of Life is obviously much different to yours, if you come to kill me, then you kill me, simple, i do not *Die*, i undergo a transition.
I do not feel the need to defend myself against your idiocy using more idiocy, i do not feel the need to engage violence against you.
Consider us as not a part of the problem, it will likely be people like me who would walk on to a battlefield and recover the wounded, i am not afraid of violence or pain, i have experienced much of both in my life, this is why i choose, based on experience, to neither inflict or encourage violence against others.
it is uneccessary, everything is in a state of transition, how you undergo your next transition, should not be anything to be concerned about.
As for defending others, i would with my life, if that means putting myself between you and an attacker, so be it, in fact, i believe the best death you could have is in the defence of someone else either from accident or violence.
Doesn't mean i have to fight back.
And i don't look down on you for thinking as you do, I don't look down on anything for thinking as it does, there is plenty of time for all of us to evolve.

At least you are prepared to defend others with your life, even if it does not involve fighting. I can respect that, especially since you do not seem to look down on someone else for having a different point of view. I think you and I can simply agree to disagree on the subject then. Which is an unexpected pleasure to have here on ATS. Thanks.

War is great business, as long as you can invest other peoples kids into it.
Most of those that declare themselves pacifists aren't using the term properly. As for myself, I have grown to detest war, and the subcultures that have been sprouted by it, nationalism, para militarism and a culture of fear and threat.

and just for the heck of it, I'll leave this here.......

Don't paint us all with your broad brush. I am a pacifist in that I will do everything I can to avoid violence. I believe that we can be better than our past and I strive to make it so. However, my pacifism only goes so far. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I love be harmed by violence if by violence I could prevent it.
I chose to be passive after a youth and young adulthood of violence. My opinion on the matter is, if you have never lived a violent life you should just stay silent on the issue. Until you have caused death and faced it personally you should mind what you say. It is easy to speak of violence. It isn't so easy to live with the result.

Originally posted by Germanicus
What pacifism really is,is us being told that we must live with dishonour.

I like that a samuria would remove your head for looking at him the wrong way.

I like that a samurai will commit seppuku before he would even consider living with the shame of being dishonoured.

Why cant we have duels? You should be able to work out your own problems.

Society is designed for the weak,cowardly merchant. They have crafted society in a way that prevents us from having justice.

Now all the pathetic,weak,rude jerks of the world have taken over. Everyone is a coward. Its sickening. People should be ashamed of themselves. Society should be ashamed.

There are so many societies in history that value being a warrior and value maintaining your honour.

Our Western Society is a pathetic,scared,dispicable,cowardly poor excuse of a society. Im not sure if it can be changed because most of you really are pathetic cowards.

edit on 28-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

I won't say I agree with you on the acts of violence, though a few I agree should be allowed. However, the warrior society with its code of honor, for all its flaws, had a lot of positive effects that we've lost today. One is our pride and honor as human beings. That's why we're all so afraid of terrorists and serial killers these days. In my opinion, while we may not need samurais chopping your head off for looking at them the wrong way, society does need elements to be preserved from the old warrior societies - such as honor, pride, dignity, and an unrelenting, concrete solid, unwavering self-respect.

We don't really have that today.

reply to post by Hawkmoon1972


I'm not talking about senseless violence. Only a psychopath would take killing other people lightly.

reply to post by Tinman67


I don't think there's anyone who would say they like war. I certainly do not. But I recognize that there are times when it is indeed necessary to beat the war drums, though today, we live in the illusion of "smart bombs" making war clean and free of collateral damage (which is, simply put, bull#), which has resulted in us going to war so much easier than we should. Remember 1935 and Chamberlain - it took three years after that for the UK to go war. It took the United States roughly thirty days (I'm guessing here) to go to war with Afghanistan after 9/11.

reply to post by Gauss


As a pacafist i have to dissagree.
In my opinion when threatend with violence with no means to avoid it,
A coward says please dont hurt me.
A pacafist says please dont make me hurt you.
There is a big differance.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Gauss

 

As a pacafist i have to dissagree.
In my opinion when threatend with violence with no means to avoid it,
A coward says please dont hurt me.
A pacafist says please dont make me hurt you.
There is a big differance.

Starred.
You are the only one so far who has shown any understanding of Pacafism.

reply to post by Gauss

society does need elements to be preserved from the old warrior societies - such as honor, pride, dignity, and an unrelenting, concrete solid, unwavering self-respect.

I agree. Wouldnt this be pretty cool though? Some guy insults you or wrongs you in some way and instead of calling the Police like a scared little rat, you go battle in the thunderdome.

Two men enter. One man leaves.

I hate that we cant work out our own problems. I should not have to worry about 'victims compensation' or assault charges if some jerk dishonours me.

There are flaws but screw the weak. This is why we have devolved. We live in a society that is almost 'survival of the weakest'.

We will never have a Spartan-like society. We will keep getting worse if we keep carrying the weak.

reply to post by marvinthemartian


Sooner or later, somebody who says that is going to have to back it up with action, or get beaten to a pulp, dude. Which one will you choose?

The pacifists that really piss me off are the ones that look down on others for not agreeing with their beliefs

You don't agree with pacifist's beliefs, then you look down on them as cowards.

reply to post by Gauss


I sir try to live my life without being violent either of mind or action,not allways easy or possable.
I have had to defend myself on more than one ocasion and would do so again if necessary.

Throughout History most religions and belief systems, have their own variety on The Golden Rule.

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

Now if everyone practiced this core belief of Human thought then there would be no need for war, as no one would practice the opposite.

It's so simple a belief, yet the vast majority of people do not practice it, despite it being a core tenant of their belief system.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by OmegaVice

The pacifists that really piss me off are the ones that look down on others for not agreeing with their beliefs

You don't agree with pacifist's beliefs, then you look down on them as cowards.

I think what annoys people is this morally and ethically superior attitude most 'pacifists have. They are like environmentalists or liberals. They probably are environmentalists and liberals. These whale lovers do look down on people. It is only natural that they will piss people off.

And a spade is a spade.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Gauss

 

society does need elements to be preserved from the old warrior societies - such as honor, pride, dignity, and an unrelenting, concrete solid, unwavering self-respect.

This is why we have devolved. We live in a society that is almost 'survival of the weakest'.

We will never have a Spartan-like society. We will keep getting worse if we keep carrying the weak.

edit on 28-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

You won't be the first casualty that has mistaken being meek for being weak .

reply to post by Gauss


I agree. The warrior spirit has been greatly distorted in modern society. The true spirit lies not in those who are violent for the sake of being violent, or violent merely in obedience to dishonorable leaders. The true warrior spirit is, as you say, a noble expression of self-respect and courage in defending worthy principles. A society that honors principles values the warriors that will defend them. Tyrants take control when these values are lost, and it is the usual tactic of tyrants to undermine the virtue of the honorable warrior and promote craven obedience.

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Pacifism is the gravity towards peace. This does not include the denial of self-defence of peace.
Most 'pacifists' are really 'passive-agressivists'...a state of mind espoused by an averred inability to solve real-world problems...

Alove