Pacifism is cowardice!

I'm sure this post will ruffle a few feathers. That's what it's intended for, so knock yourselves out.



If there's anything in this world that disgusts me, then it's pacifists. Pacifists put themselves on high horses, and look down on others who do not follow their beliefs - who are willing to get their hands dirty to protect others. Pacifism is opposition to war and fighting, but in recent days, it is more of an opposition to any and all forms of violence. I will say this; Pacifists aren't just dilusional fools who walk through life thinking it's some kind of happy rainbow lane in Candyland, all the while looking down at people from their high horses.

No. Pacifists are cowards who renounce any and all responsibility to protect the people they love. Pacifism is an excuse not to take responsibility, and easy to hold on to until you know how difficult it is to watch your loved ones suffer. I have yet to meet a pacifist who retained his belief in pacifism when his loved ones were threatened. Those people were hypocrites, as it turns out. It's easy to renounce violence until the day comes when your family is threatened.

We all wish there could be a world where we didn't have to use violence. But between serial killers, bank robbers, gangbangers, and terrorists, not everybody has the option of putting down their guns and preaching non-violence. Protecting people's lives is more important than some half-baked notion about non-violence, a half-baked notion that, if followed, will cost the lives of innocent people. And yet at the end of the day, the pacifists will still sit on their moral high horses, and look down at anyone who uses violence, no matter how many innocent lives were saved by its use.

To me, as a former soldier, pacifism is the unwillingness to risk your own life to protect those you love. In other words - cowardice.

reply to post by Gauss


"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence. "- Gandhi.



Im with you. So is Gandhi

Edit- I heard that on the A-Team movie

reply to post by Germanicus


Thanks, man. Ghandi is my man foh shore.

And A-Team was a great movie. "You spin me right round, baby, right round..."

I thought that was a pretty broad brush stroke so I googled pacifism ... this is what came up ...

pac·i·fism/ˈpasəˌfizəm/Noun: 1.The belief that war and violence are unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means. 2.The refusal to participate in war or military service because of such a belief.

Being a total pacifist goes against evolutionary psychology. If you are unwilling to fight a bully who steals from you, then you might as well hand yourself the Darwin Award. Sometimes the pacifist method is right, but other times it isn't. Hitler is a case in point. If no one stood up to him, how would the world be today?

Of couirse, people may have the spiritual belief that they can't fight back under any circumstance. That's their right to believe it. It's also their right to be enslaved and or killed because of those beliefs.

There is a happy middle road that can usually be taken but many times isn't. "The Middle Way" ... as the Buddhists say. The world would be a better place if more people practiced 'The Middle Way" ....

ETA - for those who don't know what the middle way is - The Middle Way

According to the Buddha, the Middle Way is a life lived between the extremes of self-denial and self-indulgence. Neither hedonist nor ascetic are to be imitated, for the Noble Eightfold Path weaves its way through life avoiding both these unenlightened lifestyles. To see the world in the light of the Buddhadharma is to have Right View, not only recognizing the suffering that is caused by desire, but also the Path that leads to the ending of all such suffering, based in the Right Intention to let go of lust, ill-will, and cruelty. In other words, to lead a harmless life. Right Speech, Action, and Livelihood grow out of such an intention, directing one’s lifestyle in a more selfless, rather than selfish, direction. Right Effort is the avoidance of unwholesome states and the cultivation of wholesome ones. Right Mindfulness and Concentration take this well-directed mind and hone it to the point where it is on the precipice of the great void that is known as Nirvana. The perfection of the Path (that is, the Middle Way), is the ripening of the spiritual life; it becomes a fruit ready to drop into the infinity of enlightenment…forever.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Agreed, dude. I'm not preaching excessive use of war and violence. That's the complete opposite of pacifism - fanaticism and/or extremism. Unfortunately, there's many times in history when a lack of action have won the day, and hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost in the process.

Starred for the spiritual education you gave me.

Originally posted by Gauss
Agreed, dude.

Dudette! Yep .. there is a happy middle ground. Extremes in either direction cause problems. Total pacifism = annihilation. Total aggression = annihilation. Wouldn't it be nice if common sense ruled the day??

reply to post by FlyersFan


Haha, sorry, dudette. My bad.

And yeah, it would be pretty enjoyable to live in such a world.

As I've grown older I've become a pacifist. Which isn't an easy task when you have anger issues and PTSD (to name but 2 of the many reasons why I became a pacifist) Sure, I was in the Army and sure I was a martial arts instructor. However, just because I still have all the skills (and still practice them 20 years on) that doesn't mean I have to use them.

That said, I will (and have done in the past) fight to defend my family...show me a loving soul who wouldn't.

I'm not a coward, but I am a pacifist who has seen far too much of life to be anything else.

Rev

reply to post by revmoofoo


At least you understand then that there are times when one has to fight. Many pacifists I have talked to are not so blessed. Good for you, sir. Starred your post.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Gauss


Even a pacifist can be pushed too far and they usually have so much pent up rage that they're pretty dangerous folks to be around when that happens. Everyone, no matter what they believe, has their limits and a little nudge too far can make them flip.

I like to use NLP to mess with the people I've described above...just because I can.

Rev

my favourite trick in my bar man days was to take the IDIOT who started a fight in my bar let him swing several times and miss each one then grab him and run him face first full speed at a wall or door frame...
then at the last second when he is resigned to the idea of the full on impact of his stupidity face into the wall or doorframe
I would MISS THE WALL OR DOORFRAME

its amazing how non violence can change a dumba44 mind

reply to post by Danbones


There's a difference between defending yourself against a drunk, and protecting your family against a mad gunman, dude. I'm sure you will figure it out one day. Pacifism is all good and well as long as you don't have a gun to your face.


ETA: Oh, and I can assure you I'm not reTRaded, whatever the heck that is.

reply to post by revmoofoo


What's NLP? Sounds scary.

Anyway, you're right about that. The pacifists that really piss me off are the ones that look down on others for not agreeing with their beliefs, and then yet have the gall of ending up giving up their pacifism when somebody they hold dear is in danger.

Click here for more information.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire- I agree.

My policy is to walk away when a fight doesn't matter, persuade to the extent that I can when it does matter, but the cold truth is that, when confronted with those who threaten, it's time to fight and fight hard, and I will do that.

Psychopaths and tyrants of all kinds tend to promote pacifism as a moral virtue in their victims for obvious reasons. People are often pacifists because they have bought into the authoritarian propaganda, and, as you pointed out, yes- many people are just simply moral cowards. A pacifist who claims to care about anyone or any moral principle is either just giving lip service or they will, if really pressed, actually fight.

Advocating violence , while deriding those who would choose a peaceful solution , sounds a lot like machoism to me.
Every person has their limits and it is foolish to not know ones own.

Blessed are the peacemakers . ( or the cheesemakers, for all us Life Of Brian fans ) .

reply to post by dawnprince


I''m more advocating the realization that sometimes it's necessary to use violence. I'm also more bashing those who blindly refuse to acknowledge this, because they're irresponsible and cowardly. What I'm not is advocating the use of blind, uncontrolled violence at any and all times a problem appears. And what I'm not is bashing pacifists who follow the principle of using peaceful means as far as possible, but still see that sometimes, there is no other way out than fighting fire with fire, to lend a term from the poster above you (Thanks!).

It is a part of evolution as a species, we either continue to be emotionally, spiritually bereft, incapable of solving anything other than by violence, or, we all eventually progress.
In time we will all progress.
To say it is ok to use violence for one reason or another, implies that it is ok to use violence.
It is not for you to label "Pacifists" as weak, My understanding of Life is obviously much different to yours, if you come to kill me, then you kill me, simple, i do not *Die*, i undergo a transition.
I do not feel the need to defend myself against your idiocy using more idiocy, i do not feel the need to engage violence against you.
Consider us as not a part of the problem, it will likely be people like me who would walk on to a battlefield and recover the wounded, i am not afraid of violence or pain, i have experienced much of both in my life, this is why i choose, based on experience, to neither inflict or encourage violence against others.
it is uneccessary, everything is in a state of transition, how you undergo your next transition, should not be anything to be concerned about.
As for defending others, i would with my life, if that means putting myself between you and an attacker, so be it, in fact, i believe the best death you could have is in the defence of someone else either from accident or violence.
Doesn't mean i have to fight back.
And i don't look down on you for thinking as you do, I don't look down on anything for thinking as it does, there is plenty of time for all of us to evolve.

What pacifism really is,is us being told that we must live with dishonour.

I like that a samuria would remove your head for looking at him the wrong way.

I like that a samurai will commit seppuku before he would even consider living with the shame of being dishonoured.

Why cant we have duels? You should be able to work out your own problems.

Society is designed for the weak,cowardly merchant. They have crafted society in a way that prevents us from having justice.

Now all the pathetic,weak,rude jerks of the world have taken over. Everyone is a coward. Its sickening. People should be ashamed of themselves. Society should be ashamed.

There are so many societies in history that value being a warrior and value maintaining your honour.

Our Western Society is a pathetic,scared,dispicable,cowardly poor excuse of a society. Im not sure if it can be changed because most of you really are pathetic cowards.