Atheists / Agnostics. Could We Be Wrong?

Originally posted by manna2

circle logic is not proof of anything, it's proof of nothing.
You are stuck in your own paradigm of thought pretending to no that absolutes do not exist.
My simple question is this, Are you absolutely sure?

Absolutely sure of what?

If I didn't know what I know, I would be an agnostic, I have too logical of a mind.
What would hang me up would be, "What possible justifiable reason does God have for waiting as long as he has to solve the worlds problems, when he has always had the power to do it immediately"?
And if he has a reason he needs to tell humans so that they know and clearly understand.

Thankfully there is an answer to these issue's and I am not an agnostic, but I can see if I didn't accept the explanation, continuing to be one.

There are very few pure Atheists, most are agnostics claiming to be atheists, I would say the very active ones that directly campaign against God in public open forums are strong contenders. There are a few on YouTube and there have been a couple on ATS, but they seem to eventually get banned or stop posting.
ATS seems to attract a more intelligent mix of people, and an aggressive belligerent posting style talking down to people as if they are super stupid because they have faith doesn't fly at ATS.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
If I didn't know what I know, I would be an agnostic, I have too logical of a mind.
What would hang me up would be, "What possible justifiable reason does God have for waiting as long as he has to solve the worlds problems, when he has always had the power to do it immediately"?
And if he has a reason he needs to tell humans so that they know and clearly understand.

Thankfully there is an answer to these issue's and I am not an agnostic, but I can see if I didn't accept the explanation, continuing to be one.

There are very few pure Atheists, most are agnostics claiming to be atheists, I would say the very active ones that directly campaign against God in public open forums are strong contenders. There are a few on YouTube and there have been a couple on ATS, but they seem to eventually get banned or stop posting.
ATS seems to attract a more intelligent mix of people, and an aggressive belligerent posting style talking down to people as if they are super stupid because they have faith doesn't fly at ATS.

I do not see too many non-believers actively campaigning against a God they do not believe in.

I do see many though who just do not like to see good believer minds wasted on fantasy, miracles and magic.
I call that good social conscience.

I admit to fighting against such beliefs as well even as I am not an atheist or agnostic.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

There are very few pure Atheists, most are agnostics claiming to be atheists,

A "pure" or "true" Atheist is also Agnostic.

No one can Prove or dis-Prove a God exists - - - to state fact "no god exists" is incorrect.

Lack of Belief in a God - - - the correct definition of Atheism - - - does not factually state there is no God.

AGNOSTICISM: THE BASIS FOR ATHEISM, NOT AN ALTERNATIVE TO IT

What is Agnosticism?

Agnosticism is a recent concept, introduced by Thomas Huxley, the famous friend and advocate of Darwin, to describe his own concerns about knowledge and belief. It is derived from the Greek roots a- for 'no' or 'without' and gnosis for 'knowledge.' Dictionary definitions, which are often worse than useless, tend to depict it as the position that certain things, like god(s), are unknown or ultimately unknowable; in common usage it is a third religious position between Atheism or Theism. The Oxford World Encyclopedia goes so far as to declare that it is a \reasoned basis for the rejection of both Christianity and Atheism.

However, neither dictionaries nor common usage reflect Huxley's intent in coining the term. His original formulation of the concept goes as follows:

Agnosticism is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the vigorous application of a single principle. Positively the principle may be expressed as, in matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it can carry you without other considerations. And negatively, in matters of the intellect, do not pretend the conclusions are certain that are not demonstrated or demonstrable. It is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can produce evidence which logically justifies that certainty.

In this characterization, which we can take as authoritative, there is no mention of belief in general or of religion in particular. Rather, it addresses what we should and can claim to know. It is akin to skepticism in the less extreme sense: not that it is impossible to have knowledge or that we have none but that we should not claim to have knowledge that we do not have.

Agnosticism, then, is not a branch of religion but of epistemology, the philosophy of knowledge: what is it possible to say that we know with some acceptable degree of certainty, and how do we know that we know it?

atheists.org...

reply to post by Klassified


If humans really did evolve from apes and just happened to develop consciousness, intellect and the ability of free-will. Why dont we see monkeys and gorillas forming civilizations and language? Or even better why aren't apes having anymore human babies? If that was the case?

I know God does exist. The way religion perceives god can be inn-accurate .Our human understanding is too limited to understand the infinite. Our current technologies and luxuries are still run on ancient fossil fuels. Our science and most advanced technologies have barely been able to send rovers to Mars. We honestly don't even understand what's hidden beneath the depths of our oceans. So to come to a conclusion about the infinite is just sheer ignorance and honestly naive.
Good and Evil exists. Yin-Yang.
But hey to each their own. Feel free to comment.

Peace and love.

Originally posted by Gurru
I know God does exist.

Really?

And exactly how do you know?

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
I take the stance of athiesm.... For now, there is no way of knowing, but if evidence presents itself to convince me otherwise, i will make the change accordingly. more than likely theism is incorrect. There is simply no way of knowing for sure.

Atheist here, and there IS a way of knowing whether or not there is a god. Of course, the definition of 'god' might be different than the omnipotent intelligent entity most think of.

Tired, so I'll get right to the point. There is no way to get the information to create the very first living cell from inorganic material. Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon - these atoms do not contain the information to create life. This information HAD to be injected into these elements by an intelligent presence. It's the only way. Not the false biblical gods, but something out there created life.

reply to post by Annee

No one can Prove or dis-Prove a God exists - - - to state fact "no god exists" is incorrect.

A statement like that always makes me chuckle. It's impossible to prove something doesn't exist, that much is true- if i claimed there was a unicorn in my room (who is also pink), yet disappeared whenever you looked, you cannot prove I am wrong. You never, ever could.

However, that means the burden of proof is on me.

There are many ways to prove God exists, and for believers, we have found that proof. One, would be the authenticity of His word- the Bible. How do you confirm the Bible is true- with prophecy. Israel becoming a nation again was a prophecy, which came to being against all odds. Yet it wasn't just one prophecy, it was several- watch the documentary "25 Messianic Signs" and it shows an astonishing amount of prophecies that were fulfilled recently, and which were impossible to be self-fulfilling prophecies.

Another way, is through miracles. I can testify to witnessing the healing of God's work through my Mother's life, in which I testified here.

There's also another way to prove the historical accuracy of the Bible, and that is through the research and evidence found of a world-wide flood. Kent Hovind does an excellent job of this in his creation seminar, easily found on YouTube.

There's also the witnesses- the Stars and the Great Pyramids are two of them. The stars, as shown in the documentary "Glory of the Stars" (links to a YouTube video), explains how the Stars actually tell the entire story of our Bible, including the Gospel, and many prophecies.

The second, the Great Pyramids, are also a great witness. Watch the documentaries, "The Lost Legend of Enoch", "Message from the Stars", "Gateway to the Galaxy" - which are a three part series in "The Great Pyramid" - look up and watch these, and if you don't question your disbelief, probably nothing will except the appearing of Christ himself in your living room.

There's an ample amount of evidence to prove God exists. The question is, are you willing to look for it?

Originally posted by Gurru

I know God does exist.

So to come to a conclusion about the infinite is just sheer ignorance and honestly naive.

Look at what you said last and what you said above it.

Need I say more of your conclusion?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
I take the stance of athiesm.... For now, there is no way of knowing, but if evidence presents itself to convince me otherwise, i will make the change accordingly. more than likely theism is incorrect. There is simply no way of knowing for sure.

Atheist here, and there IS a way of knowing whether or not there is a god. Of course, the definition of 'god' might be different than the omnipotent intelligent entity most think of.

Tired, so I'll get right to the point. There is no way to get the information to create the very first living cell from inorganic material. Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon - these atoms do not contain the information to create life. This information HAD to be injected into these elements by an intelligent presence. It's the only way. Not the false biblical gods, but something out there created life.

True.
Something.
Not someone.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Lionhearte

However, that means the burden of proof is on me.

There are many ways to prove God exists, and for believers, we have found that proof. One, would be the authenticity of His word- the Bible. How do you confirm the Bible is true- with prophecy. Israel becoming a nation again was a prophecy, which came to being against all odds. Yet it wasn't just one prophecy, it was several- watch the documentary "25 Messianic Signs" and it shows an astonishing amount of prophecies that were fulfilled recently, and which were impossible to be self-fulfilling prophecies.

You can not prove a belief - - no matter how much you try to convince yourself and others.

The Bible is proof man can write. It is not proof of a god.

If you believe in prophesies - - you will make something fit.

reply to post by Annee


Though I'm inclined to believe that no matter how much "evidence" or material for you, I can never convince you- that's your decision if you want to believe or not.

However, for the open-minded individuals, agnostics, or what have you- I strongly recommend watching "25 Messianic Signs" - one in particular, a prophecy from the Bible, said that God would return a pure language to his people, when he gathers them again as a nation - that language is Hebrew-

For the skeptics, understand that, Hebrew was dead for 2000 years- and today it is now the accepted and standard language for the Nation of Israel. No one has used it as a daily language for 2,000 years, since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Now, I want you to think how impossible it is to suddenly bring a language back after it's been dead, ESPECIALLY when there are more modernized languages today, such as English.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

For the skeptics, understand that, Hebrew was dead for 2000 years- and today it is now the accepted and standard language for the Nation of Israel. No one has used it as a daily language for 2,000 years, since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Provide links to factual information for this claim.

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I found this site which presents a very logical and realistic history of Yiddish: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Other sites also give logical explanations for the decline and revival of the language.

There is no mystery involved. The problem with Believers - - - they often use only texts written by other believers - - - not actual researched history.

reply to post by Annee
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For me, as in my present state of mind and dimensional awareness. I have been able to find god through nature. Waking up in the morning and going out for a hike, i have been able to notice the complete randomness of every pattern on every leaf of every tree. The distinct tone of every bird of the countless species that roam the skies. God created all of this for us. And we as humans can't even appreciate what has been given to us as the greatest gift of life. Our bodies will die and be part of the earth. But the energy that is within us cannot be destroyed but only changes form.

Originally posted by Gurru
reply to post by Annee
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For me, as in my present state of mind and dimensional awareness. I have been able to find god through nature. Waking up in the morning and going out for a hike, i have been able to notice the complete randomness of every pattern on every leaf of every tree. The distinct tone of every bird of the countless species that roam the skies. God created all of this for us. And we as humans can't even appreciate what has been given to us as the greatest gift of life. Our bodies will die and be part of the earth. But the energy that is within us cannot be destroyed but only changes form.

I understand that.

I was raised Christian and went on a "Spirit Quest" for about 50 years. I've experienced most of the commonly known beliefs.

Atheist means only lack of belief in a god. It does not mean No Belief.

I do believe there is an Energy Consciousness. I DO NOT believe there is a sentient being God of earth/humans.

I believe there are multiple multiple multiple (without end) layers of created existences from the original source Energy Consciousness.

I think Mormons are probably closer to reality in believing the earth/human "overseer" is a real being from another planet/existence. And is involved in our progress of evolution.

reply to post by Annee


uhhh, yiddish is not Hebrew. It's bastardized for the Khazar ashenazim. The difference is like discussing what is English and the difference in pig latin claiming it is English.
Sometimes you just simply try too hard to be correct even to the point of being ridiculous.
But hey, at least you are consistant.

oh, btw, I loved the irony from you doing a google and then claiming something about researched history accusing others of ignorance when you claim yiddish i=s the Hebrew language you opposed and replied to as being a false statement. Yiddish is a lot of languages put together for the Eastern Europeans that converted to Judaism in the 8'th century a.d. You completely fail here claiming a knowledge of history over "believers" when claiming another party is ignorant where you relied upon a google for your own selective history lesson.
I don't think anyone has ever accused you of doing due diligence on this site.

reply to post by manna2


You know I do not respond to you.

You are a "baiter". Everyone should beware when - - - thinking of responding to you.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Lionhearte

For the skeptics, understand that, Hebrew was dead for 2000 years- and today it is now the accepted and standard language for the Nation of Israel. No one has used it as a daily language for 2,000 years, since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Provide links to factual information for this claim.

Here's the first thing I found on Google.

I found this site which presents a very logical and realistic history of Yiddish: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Other sites also give logical explanations for the decline and revival of the language.

I said Hebrew, not Yiddish - There's a difference.

There is no mystery involved. The problem with Believers - - - they often use only texts written by other believers - - - not actual researched history.

Mystery? Who claimed mystery?
The problem with "non-believers", is that they assume Believers credit everything to miracles and the unexplained. It's not like I think the language was suddenly spoken by Jews as they returned to Israel.

reply to post by Annee

You can not prove a belief - - no matter how much you try to convince yourself and others.

The Bible is proof man can write. It is not proof of a god.

You should buy Carl Gallup's "The Magic Man in the Sky", you can get it in amazon. interesting read.

God's fingerprint is all in the bible and wihe the heptadic code and the bible code and the geneaology of names.









This is the lineage of Yeshua from Adama to Yeshua. Interesting how the names have prophetic meaning, even before Christ came to this world and how they foretold of him. In the bible code Yeshua's name appears many times in the old testament alone. What i just showed you was the geneaology of names. In Hebrew the names have meaning that goes all the way back to the beginning.

Yes the bible was written by men, but inspired and authored by Yeshua who is the holder of the Name above all names. Archeaology supports the bible being true and even the tombs of Simon Peter, Lazarus, Mary and Martha have been found with Yeshua's name carved into them and a cross etched into them, Pope Pius 12 hid this discovery in 1966 so the R.C.C. could keep the lie that Peter was the first Pope.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by manna2

 

You know I do not respond to you.

You are a "baiter". Everyone should beware when - - - thinking of responding to you.

You don't have to respond. I wasn't debating because you are bathed in ignorance.
I simply pointed out to others your ignorance , repeatedly, of subjects you have no clue in.
Why you think a google gives you the right to declare others of your own ignorance always amazes me. I am not baiting you because you are allready walking talking, typing bait. Yiddish is not Hebrew no matter what your wiki source claims and your 5 minutes of googling is not and never has been due diligence in this matter or any other.
What is amazing is you actually accused others of ignorance in history while claiming this. You exposed yourself as the ignorant party and you don't even see it. Those of us with knowledge recognize you as a poser right away.
It's you that is the "baiter". You are projecting again.