ATF to Outlaw Shotguns

Sad state of affairs when 3-4 posters in 8 pages are the only ones to bother to fact check before going off half cocked.

Infowars was wrong? Whodathunkit?!

Credit to dailypaul for correcting themselves.

guns don't kill people. people kill people. where is the personal responsibility.

the government has taken a grade school approach to governing in general.

i.e. if jake chews gum in class and gets detention, then everyone gets detention.

instead of taking jake by the ear and kicking his ass until he plays fair, they punish everyone.

if there were no guns, people would use swords and knives like they have been doing of thousands of years.

that's the problem, not guns.

There are more citizens with shotguns than there are enforcers who would try and take them away. Add to that number the citizens that have long rifles, muzzle loaders, black powder, side arms, compound/long bows, etc..

It's not gonna happen. Maybe only in big liberal cities where the populace eats this stuff up and turns in their neighbors, certainly not going to happen in small town USA and GOP Central.

They can ban the new sale of certain types by blocking the interstate commerce, but they're not going to take the owned ones away. They're not going to prevent intrastate commerce of weapons if the state is upholding the rights of the citizens.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Dont worry Chadwickus...........

Theres enough too worry about,that makes this relevant.

Im sure this will be brought up again,in the near future. For now,enjoy the Patriot Act,NDAA,and Gitmo......

The term "Assault Weapon" is something made up by media and government to help keep sheeple scared of the evil black rifles and handguns. I can assault people with any weapon available to me.

It was asked earlier why if one was just a sport shooter why you would need a repeating weapon. The answer is because most people do not just sport shoot simply to poke holes in targets or break clays or even take the occasional tasty animal out of the forest. One of the biggest reasons the 2A exists to begin with is to help keep us safe from those that wish to control us to the point of tyranny as well as the bad people that pick employment that involves trying to take their stuff or lives. So many practice or train to be able to protect ones self form bad people that would wish to do us harm no matter where these bad people come from. So bottom line is you might need to expel more than a round or two of ammo in a timely manner. and reloading takes a lot longer than the time available sometimes.

To the idea of accidental discharge; While it was more prevalent in the older days when weapons where not made with things like firing pin blocks you could see a weapon go off if dropped. Especially if a trigger job was done to decrease the effort to work the trigger. But you will see over the years most weapons are made in a way that these things do not happen any more. You can throw most handguns fully loaded and they will just get all scratched up. Even the now 100 year old 1911 has been made to not go off unless you have your booger hook in the trigger guard. This makes the idea of accidental discharge something that just does not happen anymore. The more accurate term would be negligent discharge. You might want to call it an accident when little 6 year old Billy gets dad's pistols and shoots his sister. But it was solely dad's negligent handling of firearms that allowed the "accident" to happen. Place responsibility where it should be.

Sure, guns are dangerous, but so are many other things. A push lawn mower is dangerous if you do not use it properly. To blame the tool for the carpenters work is just not logical.

It's really simple, don't point the muzzle anywhere you are not willing to poke a hole in something. Don't use your mower to trim your bushes. Don't use your car to get rid of your secret girlfriends. When properly handled a firearm is no more dangerous as the mower.

The "Sporting Purposes" thing is just so stupid I can't even get my head wrapped around it. The 2A has much more to do with than sport shooting. It's only real reason for being is the idea of keeping the citizens at at disadvantage as a means of control. That's why black rifles are scary. Because the powers that be are more afraid when those they wish to control are not so easy to control.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by benrl

 

Banning gun ownership + DHS buying 450 million rounds = Martial LAW and UN Agenda 21!

I don't like this math!

You should be afraid, because the day they take our guns away, the first amendment will be next and thats where the MotB starts going into your right hands and foreheads. They will be chipping people to keep track of them and from what i have been reading there will be a kill command imbdded in them which they can use to terminate disobedient slaves.

reply to post by randomname


Yeah except the people that want guns taken away want the government to still have them... DUH, that's the main reason that the second amendment exists so that the government can't threaten to take away the power of the people.

The duh... isn't directed at you btw.

Jaden

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I think the original poster is jumping to premature conclusions.

Shotguns should never be outlawed because they are primarily used for sport hunting. Militarised versions that accept magazines should be outlawed though, as well as automatic rifles/carbines.

Everyone makes a big deal about using a shotgun for home defense but I personally think it is too bulky and noisey for my taste. Sure it is a viable solution, but I would rather have a quiet and small .22lr or .25acp to prevent my neighbors from knowing I have been robbed.

Flip the pistol out *james bond style* bang, bang, bang

Concealed weapons are fantastic, no?

edit on 5/28/2012 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

If you truly believe the nonsense you spouted above then you have no idea the purpose of owning firearms in a free society and specifically the purpose of the second amendment.

Maybe you have erroneously fallen for the rhetoric of those who have tried to convince the world that America's freedom to own firearms is solely about recreational use, hunting or even personal (home only) protection.

Wrong!!!! The SOLE reason for the second amendment and the right to keep and bear arms in a free society is to ensure that the power of the free nation lies in the people within that free nation, that the government not be able to deny them the right to keep and bear arms so that their freedom is not infringed. The second amendment should really be the first amendment or even the first sentence in the constitution because all freedoms are predicated on that ONE....

Jaden

Since I have a shotgun that can hold more shells than they allow, I suppose I will become an outlaw. Hence I'll be known as "Ricky the Mouse". That's my new outlaw name.

Originally posted by hawkiye
I did not know the ATF was a legislative body and had such authority...

These idiots should all be arrested for treason and stupidity! Good luck banning shotguns. Course their MO is not to try and mass confiscate they know better. They use fear to get people to turn them in and also whenever someone gets detained that is just another excuse to arrest them. Also they harass gun stores for selling anything remotely close.

California proved that the majority of weapons will not be turned in or registered. When they first passed their assault weapons ban less the 10% complied. They will rue the day when the people have finally had enough just like King George did!

edit on 28-5-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Actually, the ATF does not have the power to ban ANY weapon, they can't ban silencers or anything related to firearms. They know this. The firearms act that they were formed under is related to taxation. It should be ruled on shortly and their powers curtailed or eliminated by the SCOTUS.

When people are arrested for firearms violations they are NOT arrested for firearms violations, they are arrested for tax evasion...

Jaden

reply to post by seabag


It would appear this is a year old issue that the DailyPaul picked up from Infowars, who are not exactly known for their due diligence or accuracy.

Here's the article infowars copied, from april of last year:

ATF to accept public comments prior to outlawing shotguns

www.greeleygazette.com...

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Sad state of affairs when 3-4 posters in 8 pages are the only ones to bother to fact check before going off half cocked.

Infowars was wrong? Whodathunkit?!

Credit to dailypaul for correcting themselves.

To bad infowars didnt do actual journalism and see if there was any update from this YEAR OLD NEWS instead of just copy and pasting a year old article and pretending it was new so they can increase their page views on their crappy website.

The ATF completed a study regarding the importability of certain shotguns. The basis for a possible ban is based on a loosely defined “Sporting Purpose” test.

My Mossberg pistol grip, twelve gauge is not for sport.

It is for protection from enemies..............both foreign and domestic

Originally posted by ShiningBeneath
reply to post by nenothtu

 

This is a massive statement to make. Guns work with mechanisms, and mechanisms are prone to be faulty from time to time. I know of a incident in which a man had his rifle leaned up standing in the leg well of his car as he drove - hit a ditch in the dirt road and blew his face off.

I'm against guns in civilian hands, mainly because I know how unintelligent and quick to anger the majority are...and this is before we take into account egos, drugs, alcohol and other reason-impairment.

edit on 28-5-2012 by ShiningBeneath because: (no reason given)

When i read posts like this i like to think back to when a tangible scenario was immortalized by "our great leaders" actions, and i wonder was it alchohol, or the ego the DICK cheney used when he shot his huntin buddy ? and then kept the cops at bay for 12 or so hours because they needed the time to "straighten up" before they made their new "revised" report.

reply to post by poopadoopoulis

When i read posts like this i like to think back to when a tangible scenario was immortalized by "our great leaders" actions, and i wonder was it alchohol, or the ego the DICK cheney used when he shot his huntin buddy ? and then kept the cops at bay for 12 or so hours because they needed the time to "straighten up" before they made their new "revised" report.

when I read posts like this I wonder if the poster has ever in his life done any sport shooting. Ever in his life ever experienced shot raining harmlessly on to his back.
ho hum!!!
Now about Tangibility, where were we???

Ah yes, a typical election year gun issue...

reply to post by sonnny1

reply to post by Chadwickus 
Dont worry Chadwickus........... 

Theres enough too worry about,that makes this relevant. 

Im sure this will be brought up again,in the near future. For now,enjoy the Patriot Act,NDAA,and Gitmo......

You got that right!

Even though the story is a year old retread the fact remains it was attempted by our government. 

Continuous attempts are made to rob Americans of their second amendment rights (and other rights). As long as there are powers that wish to control others there will always be an attempt to disarm the people they are trying to control.

It doesn't help that there are willing idiots running around trying to deny or justify these actions by our government. Some of you obviously don't give a crap about our rights.

And how much more inaccurate is Alex Jones than...say....any MSM outlet anyway? It was a true story even though the date was wrong and it was carried recently on dozens of other sites as well. 

I've been wondering how long it will be before the US government start taking the guns away.

There is no way, with things going as they are, that the US government would want a crisis to take over America where by the majority of the population is armed to the teeth.

I've always admired America for the simple fact that you can defend yourself and your property without being dragged through court for several years, which is what happens here in the UK, where it was a crime to even think of defending yourself under Labour, thankfully that's changing, but only slightly.

Americans, I sure hope you stand your ground on this issue. If they take your guns, you've had it.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by sonnny1

 

reply to post by Chadwickus 
Dont worry Chadwickus........... 

Theres enough too worry about,that makes this relevant. 

Im sure this will be brought up again,in the near future. For now,enjoy the Patriot Act,NDAA,and Gitmo......

You got that right!

Even though the story is a year old retread the fact remains it was attempted by our government. 

Continuous attempts are made to rob Americans of their second amendment rights (and other rights). As long as there are powers that wish to control others there will always be an attempt to disarm the people they are trying to control.

It doesn't help that there are willing idiots running around trying to deny or justify these actions by our government. Some of you obviously don't give a crap about our rights.

And how much more inaccurate is Alex Jones than...say....any MSM outlet anyway?

It was a true story even though the date was wrong and it was carried recently on dozens of other sites as well. 

Dont worry brother......

If ANYONE thinks this is a dead issue,think again. We both know,they will try again. Many laws,or changes to existing ones,get looked over more then once,even if they are struck down.

The Obama administration is seeking to limit the importation of some shotguns via rulings made by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF.) ATF has issued a “Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns” which provides the logical underpinnings for a ban of some weapons. In Part 1 we looked at how the ATF defined “sporting purpose” to exclude the popular action and practical shooting sports. In Part 2 we saw how several features that would cause an imported shotgun to be banned are useful in home defense. In Part 3 we looked at how the unconstitutional Gun Control Act of 1968, which introduced the “sporting purpose” test for importation, came to be. In this final installation we’ll look at the implications of the current study on pistols, rifles, and domestic shotguns.

Banning Guns by Changing Definitions, Part 4


This is how they go about doing it. I am sure,they will try again.When havnt they stopped?

Gun owners at getting it from all sides our own government and the UN,and maybe the US is just using the UN to give the anti-gun crowd what the always wanted, a pacified populace, the last step in tyranny.

It may not come as surprising news to many of you that the United Nations doesn’t approve of our Second Amendment. Not one bit. And they very much hope to do something about it with help from some powerful American friends. Under the guise of a proposed global “Small Arms Treaty” premised to fight “terrorism”, “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates” you can be quite certain that an even more insidious threat is being targeted – our Constitutional right for law-abiding citizens to own and bear arms.

www.forbes.com...

A gun,a gun, my kingdom for a gun, cause when the zombie apocalypse finally arrives, I am sure there will be someone standing around and saying, "Damn maybe we shouldn't have banned all the guns, and the person standing next to them saying,," Yeah and the ammo.".