ATF to Outlaw Shotguns

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

A question, not being familiar with American laws. ( I,m aware it varies, state by state...) I assume if you shoot and wound or kill an unarmed burglar on or in your home / premises, you will be the one who goes to jail ...? Would I be right in thinking you can only use a gun to detain a burglar until the L.E.O,s arrive ?

It depends on the State. If the Locality has what is called "Castle Doctrine" then you can use deadly force to defend your property. Other states might require that you felt your life was in danger.

Originally posted by rebellender
seabag,
is it really pointless though? all kidding aside.

a weapon in the closet is a prop really when it comes down to it

compared to these demonstrations of serious fire power


or these war stoppers


we can wage war with our selves in a primitive way
but we cannot be taken seriously against this,

can we?

Yeah tell that to the Iraqi Afghanis Chechnyans and Vietnamese who defied all that so called power and tech....

reply to post by babybunnies

I've got a 12 gauge pump shotgun that I inherited from my uncle. It has a capacity to hold more shells than the article states. Why should this gun be classified as a banned weapon. I have no felonies and would never use it against law enforcement or anyone unless they were breaking into my home. That old gun has sentimental value to me. My uncle shot a lot of rabbits with that gun and it helped him live when things were tight.

Serious question and conclusion to American problems ... why dont Americans fight back the system that corrupts, limits, robs and kills you everyday ? Lock and laod your guns, wave em in the air, come together as a revolutionary-army, and see if the system will try and stop you then ? At least some places in America you CAN weild a gun (regardless the limitational laws).. dont be push overs Americans, dont take their sh!tty laws and take from you each year what is valuable and important to your indiviudal security and saftey!

You have the numbers.. I dont understand how you take the sh!t from the system and their laws.. law enforcers are willing to kill, hurt, beat, stun, blind, break you.. defend yourself and your rights! You dont need some "imendment" paper sh!t to live!! What a joke! Think and do for yourself, before its too late... because soon, its too late. That isnt just directed at America, all developed countries as well.

~ Love is an art

reply to post by SanguineDenial


Thank you, sounds very much like a grey area, unless you shoot unarmed Billy Burglar in the back as he is leaving your home..Then you are in the wrong....?

Sorry to be a pain... Can someone tell me what this new Americanism. " My bad " means ? It does,nt appear to make grammatical sense to me, but then I am English !

reply to post by seabag


More stupidity,from those wiling to take our rights away..........

Support your amendments. BUY GUNS !


S&F

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I think the original poster is jumping to premature conclusions.

Shotguns should never be outlawed because they are primarily used for sport hunting. Militarised versions that accept magazines should be outlawed though, as well as automatic rifles/carbines.

Of course they should not be banned,
ANY TYPE OF SHOTGUN (and any firearms) should be legal
to own, and that IS the whole premise of the OP.

Chicken little's running around with their head cut
off, THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING..

Quite comical to see these folks say ban this and ban that,
maybe they should be banned from breeding.

If people can't or don't want to live in society,
( LIKE THE U.S.A/AMERICA the greatest country in the world mind you.)
with guns, then leave, JUST get the HELL out of here and this country.
It will be much better off without them..
People are so silly, people will be loosing their husbands, wifes,
and those people will loose their families left and right they come for any
of the American peoples guns. Gurandamntee it.
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!

reply to post by popsmayhem


I love that video !!

This DOES NOT appear to be a current issue. This study was from January of 2011, comments were due by May 2011.

www.atf.gov...

Additionally, Little Noticed Provision Kills ATF Shotgun Ban Plans

www.ammoland.com...

A little noticed provision tucked into a large appropriations bill obviously flew under the radar of the “Brady Bunch” and the “Illegal Mayors.”

The new law effectively kills ATF’s plan to stop tactical/military shotgun imports by way of abusing the “sporting purpose” requirement and their agency rulemaking powers.

The “Fiscal Year 2012 Agriculture, Commerce/Justice/Science (CJS) and Transportation/Housing/Urban Development (THUD) Appropriations bills”, also known as the “Mini-Bus”, was passed by Congress, and signed into law by President Obama on November 18, 2011.

The new law reads as follows:

SEC. 541. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses of personnel to deny, or fail to act on, an application for the importation of any model of shotgun if–

(1) all other requirements of law with respect to the proposed importation are met; and
(2) no application for the importation of such model of shotgun, in the same configuration, had been denied by the Attorney General prior to January 1, 2011, on the basis that the shotgun was not particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes

Fortunately for INFOWARS this was not a particle done by the staff only a posted link. The staff of InfoWars might want to delve a little further prior to posting info like this.

NEVER trust what ANYONE says people!

Source:
www.dailypaul.com...

now lets look at this from our experience as soldiers and marines.

Squads of 12 men with this list of weapons
1ea Radio PRC-77
3ea Radio PRC-127
1ea M-240b
2ea M-249 saw's
4ea M-16/203
5ea M-9 Beretta's
4ea M-16a3
1ea combat medic
2+ personnel combat lifesavers

all with optics
night optics
Thermal optics
Food for 3 days
2 gallons of water
fire support by mortar
Arty Direct fire support ability
Navel Direct Fire support ability
Air support ability
Air support logistics support ability



are we not just a little grandiose in our own minds?

oh I forgot Seabag you and I know how to command a squad of 12 men
how many of you and I are there across America
Now that is a serious threat to a government, is it not?

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


It just depends how well you know the local sheriff who show's up to the scene
Some states you can shoot to kill for Trespassing. Other states there has to be a imminent threat to you. I've been told by LEOs that even in states with strong castle doctrines, do not shoot until they have crossed the threshold of your door and keeping an unregistered throw away gun can come in handy...

My Bad = Appologies = My Mistake.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

You have the numbers.. I dont understand how you take the sh!t from the system and their laws.. law enforcers are willing to kill, hurt, beat, stun, blind, break you.. defend yourself and your rights! You dont need some "imendment" paper sh!t to live!! What a joke! Think and do for yourself, before its too late... because soon, its too late. That isnt just directed at America, all developed countries as well.

~ Love is an art

For love being an art then I can't
seriously believe thou hast learned
that skill. Calling for the murder of leo's
in response to some said violence..
It is mans nature an eye for an eye but
is not what is suppose to be done..
For a thread on the ATF trying to ban shotguns
it is interesting to read this communist socialist marxist
manifesto in it.. Get out of America before it is to late
the good people are getting tired of the commies who only
hate and want to impose their rule of law on us.

reply to post by SanguineDenial


Many thanks for taking the time to clarify this for me .....

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

Thank you, sounds very much like a grey area, unless you shoot unarmed Billy Burglar in the back as he is leaving your home..Then you are in the wrong....?

Sorry to be a pain... Can someone tell me what this new Americanism. " My bad " means ? It does,nt appear to make grammatical sense to me, but then I am English !

The bottom line is you can legally shoot to kill ONLY if someone is A DIRECT THREAT to you and your property.

More to your person(body) than to your property. If a crime has been commited and the burglar/rapist is running away then it is too late to shot someone.

Basically the same rules apply everywhere where people are legally allowed to own firearms. It is better to play it conservatively in this regard than take your chances in court. How many people you know in law enforcement also plays a role.

reply to post by seabag


THIS IS LAST YEARS NEWS and IS NOT CURRENT… The ATF document is from Jan 2011 with a May 31st deadline for comments to the email in this OLD PIECE. In November of 2011 another ammendment was attached to another bill stripping the ATF of the ability to act in this case.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Thanks for expanding on previous posters info, EarthCitizen07, Appreciate your effort...

The ATF wants to ban shotguns that happens to be the top choice for home defense. The shotgun is the best weapon of choice in a close quarter hold out situation and they know it. They want to continue to undermine our rights, to the point where you have nothing for defense or no substantial firepower. Most semi auto shotguns you can get a tube extension to hold 7 & 1 in the pipe and 1 extra if you take the time to ghost one. So you have 9 initial rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger to start with and if your a skilled marksmen and trained to fast reload, you can reload 3-4 more rounds in a couple seconds. Sure a drum can carry 20 rounds but 9 rounds of sabots will make a nice mess of things.

reply to post by Maxatoria


As my dad always says, they'll have to pry my legally owned guns from my cold dead hands.

Taken from: www.americanrevival.org...
To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. – George Mason

Try to halt violence by restricting gun ownership and you won't halt violence. But you will create entire classes of new criminals – people who make paperwork errors, violate technical specification of the law, or rebel against the new restrictions. And you'll create new bureaus, new enforcement arms, new prisons to punish them. You'll make hordes of lawyers and bureaucrats very happy. Organized criminals will be grateful to the naive moral crusaders ("useful idiots") as they profit by selling an illegal product. And ordinary street criminals will bless fools, legislators, and "leaders" for making their job so much safer. – JPFO's "Bill of Rights Sentinel", Fall 2001.

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. – John F. Kennedy


Criminals obey "gun control" laws in the same manner politicians follow their oaths of office. – Anonymous

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry

...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them. -- Thomas Paine

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. – Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD.

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. – Mahatma Gandhi, in Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446

They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here? – Paul Harvey 8/31/94

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. – William S. Burroughs

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

Where I live, everyone seem's to have a shotgun hanging in the back window of their pick um up truck. Plus a number 3 and a Rebel Flag.
Go figure how the Hell the ATS or even the Sheriff's Dept would get these Gun's?
We open carry our pistol's on our hip's and everyone knows everyone has one or more gun's at the ready.
The Fed's couldn't find Randolf for a reason. Everyone is related.
Let them do whatever but it don't mean nothing out here.
If we wished, we could close the corridor's into our area and then they'd have to hike in on trails we got marked.
Our National Guard is our National Guard get it?
The best snipers ever come from these mountains also.
God help anyone trying to get our gun's.
You city slickers should worry cause your trapped with million's of others. Just suckers waiting for them to gather you.