Proving the Existence of Ghosts

reply to post by satron


They have witnessed and recorded events that they personally attribute to ghosts or hauntings, but nothing is ever done in an environment with enough control and consistency to count the results as absolute verification. Their methods are extremely flawed if you come at it from a scientific method approach.

I grew up in a haunted house as well. Now I can contribute most things to explainable things, but still some I cannot. Me and my friend both saw a "shadow person" at the same time, when the lights were on, right in front of us. That's the one huge thing I cannot explain.

I still am skeptical about ghosts though, as I haven't had an experience in years. Nor do I want to, a haunted house is so uncomfortable to live in.

reply to post by Darkblade71


I concur, if one were going to try and document the existence, start with residual. It would be a small step and would really only somewhat prove that energy in some cases carries on.

I wouldn't think being able to scientifically prove the existence of residual energy would even remotely come close to proving an afterlife though per se, but it would be a small step in understanding a little of the puzzle indeed.

If I were to do an investigation of the caliber the OP recommends I would start with this particular category of the paranormal.

reply to post by XTTIOTX


That is true, but as Frank Zappa Says:


Someone has got to take the risk if anything is ever to get done.

Here's a short clip from ghost hunters in animated gif...

Not the greatest quality, but theres a 500kb limit on file sizes to upload to ats..

This was caught using a thermal imaging camera..




It's definitely better to watch the episode in HD if you can find it..

Season 8 ep-10 "haunted by heros"

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Exactly. Anything is possible really. I just mentioned the inter-dimensional thing because quantum particle physicists have been talking about that for a good amount of time now, not that they couldn't be totally wrong. I'm just not willing to take the "deceased souls" explanation as true with the current evidence being provided. I do believe people experience things that they can't explain, but are they ghosts? I can't logically go there without more. I also know that nothing is really 100% provable. I personally have never proven that the Earth revolves around the Sun or whether or not the air we breathe is actually made up of about 9 or so different gasses, but enough people have come to the same conclusion using the same experiments in different locations around the world that I am comfortable saying that they are true and factual.

When I was young I still really believed that TAPS were genuine for whatever reason. I think the first season aired when I was around 13 so that could have been why I was so gullible. It is a TV show and they never really find anything, some evidence is clearly faked on top of it all.

The soul that became ghost once found body as host
Upon deliverance from Earth, found hardship in search of worth
Line in the sand, dueling destinations,
Unanticipated hesitation brings forth material manifestations
Unresolved conflict, convict of bondage
Awaiting angels of mercy, an anticipated harvest

Well... that about sums it up.

As to proving this... meh.

reply to post by XTTIOTX

I am comfortable saying that they are true and factual.

The only problem with that is we as people are often quick to take what "they" say as proof positive, just because of certain credentials "they" may have. Not saying that we the people are always led astray, but I for one have read quite a number of threads just on this site that lead me to believe "all" is not always what we are made to believe.

reply to post by RealSpoke



I haven't had anything happen to me in years either. That is mostly why I attribute the things that occurred to my imagination or me not remembering the events properly. Most of my experiences happened during a time that was personally,emotionally stressful. I think it was around the ages of 10-14. I used to have a pretty good imagination, so I tend to think I may have been desperate for things that were not based in reality. There are some things that I can recall that may not have been imagination. Things that, at the time, scared the hell out of me, but I tend not to believe that it was the conscious soul of a deceased human being. I am open to the idea it very well could be some type of residual energy or some other phenomenon that is unexplained at this time. If someone did come out with evidence that met my criteria for proof that these occurrences were "departed souls" then I would not hesitate to accept it.

reply to post by UberL33t


I know not everything we are told by the "authorities" on all subjects is always the truth. I know we're lied to, probably about a lot more than I think. There are certain things that I am willing to accept as the truth though. I mean there are certain things you have to accept as the truth just to maintain sanity. If you don't have some sort of solid platform to base your beliefs on then you'll just keep treading water until you drown in a sea of uncertainty. I like to use science and mathematics as my platform because they have provided me with the answers that seem most likely to be true to me.

reply to post by RealSpoke


I was into TAPS a few years back, never really took them too seriously, but once it was revealed that they were faking evidence for sure and I realized how produced the show was I knew it was all bologna. You are 100% correct. It is a T.V. show whose sole purpose is to offer entertainment. No hauntings = No ratings.. So their credibility automatically goes out the window.

reply to post by XTTIOTX

I know not everything we are told by the "authorities" on all subjects is always the truth.

...and I feel it goes both ways, for and against certain subjects, like the paranormal imo. Just don't give up on searching for the truth is the key. I think you're on the right track by all means. The evidence of paranormal existence is not sufficient as you see it, but don't let that curb your enthusiasm for searching for the truth.

Like you said, we'll never know everything, to add to that, what we know today may be totally overturned tomorrow. Of course don't allow yourself to drown in a given subject matter, but don't discount it altogether ya know.

Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by UberL33t
reply to post by XTTIOTX

 

I know not everything we are told by the "authorities" on all subjects is always the truth.

...and I feel it goes both ways, for and against certain subjects, like the paranormal imo. Just don't give up on searching for the truth is the key. I think you're on the right track by all means. The evidence of paranormal existence is not sufficient as you see it, but don't let that curb your enthusiasm for searching for the truth.

Like you said, we'll never know everything, to add to that, what we know today may be totally overturned tomorrow. Of course don't allow yourself to drown in a given subject matter, but don't discount it altogether ya know.

Just my 2 cents

Good advice. Your right it is easy to get consumed by something, but I try to remain light of heart in my en devours. No harm, no foul kind of idea. I have been disappointed enough in the past by investing too much time and effort into futile ideas and goals that I try to base as much of my personnel growth in reality as I can. Well what is reality to me anyways. Regarding the truth, there is a saying about history being written by the victors. I always try to remember that when being exposed to any idea that could have multiple angles.

Get a ghost to sign an affidavit stating that ghosts exist and have it notarized. It should be valid proof by the laws of the USA. Oh ya, that's right they can't hold a pen.

reply to post by biggmoneyme


Search flimmern geists (if you havent already lol) i also see these from time to time, i think training my peripheral vision has made them more frequently noticable, all i wanted to do was train my auric sight and this is what i get haha

Peace

I do believe, but as you suggest, I wonder why no one researches this in a more logical way.

I remember reading somewhere, that many hundreds of years back, the bible held references to reincarnation, the pope ordered the bible to be changed, as he believed that if sheep stealers thought that they would come back after being hung, the punishment wouldn't be a deterent! Perhaps thats why no one researches the paranormal properly.

I live in a cottage that I can prove is two hundred years old, but going by the construction, I would say parts of it are at least 400 years old. Although it seems to have less activity than much newer properties I have lived in, things do still happen here.

If anyone would live to come and use it for research, they are more than welcome!

Originally posted by Propulsion
Ha-ha, people actually watch Ghost Hunters?

With all the sightings, you would think that there would be at least one ghost who wasn’t afraid to come out and say hi to everyone. How come they never do that?

Can I quote you on that one? LOL!

I completely agree with the thoughts expressed. I have always wondered why this also wasn't done.

Could it be because there is too much money to lose with the advent of proving/disproving? I dont even think that its an issue, I just think that people are too afraid to take a risk in order to convey their findings, and to possibly be made fun of.

Since i was a little boy i have had experiences, and have been drawn to research in this field.

Another problem is finding investors.

I am an audio engineer, and have the audio equipment, but not the funds for the other equipment. If someone dropped a pile of money in my lap, I would surely do what has been proposed, as a matter of fact, I would set up a donation system, that would track my pending on resources for this project, and make it transparent, and open to the public. I know that these things can be manipulated and so on, so it seems a losing battle to try and be righteous and helpful, but nevertheless, this is what i would do, as I feel that it is my lifes purpose. Either prove or disprove, either way it would be a service to both humanity and to the scientific community, the implications would be paradigm shifting if this topic could be confirmed or denied.

Interesting post! I have been for the last several years been working with raudive phenomena (EVP) ; what I believe is that we'll never prove or disprove the existance of ghosts... We will however build up a convicing database of knowledge that lends credibility to an unknown phenomenon existing. This is part of the reason why mainstream universities do not have paranormal studies departments anymore.

If you are the religious type then the matter is already proven to you. If your religious beliefs dictate an after life, you already hold belief in the spirit. If your an athiest probably not so much. You don't need equipment and hours of pouring over recording to prove such.

Recording devices, data logers, camcorders and for that matter all devices built by human hands; can only pick up and measure enviromental conditions, affects on environmental conditions, or capture reactions to conditions. They are not designed to detect or prove what a "ghost" is.

With that said I believe there are phenomenon occuring (such as evp for example) which when captured using adequete equipment and under controlled circumstances; lends credibility to "something" unusual occuring at a given location at a given time. Some of which seems to come from an intelligent source!