Iran: Discovery will NOT collapse Christianity

reply to post by Jordan River

p.s jesus went into wildenress

1. He did. But did he go to Kedar? (i.e place named after a son of Ishmael )

2. Did Jesus shame the idolaters?
Mohammad did. In fact, idolatry in Arabia came to an end after Mohammads arrival.

3. Also, when did Jesus say he was "a light for the Gentiles"?
On the contrary, Jesus said he was sent only to "the lost children of Israel."..and instructed his disciples to avoid gentile towns.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I also think that some of Isaiah referances are not just Jesus, but also a combination of Him and the 2nd coming as well.

Jesus did become the light of the gentiles, it open up dialogue between the goyims and the chosen (jews)

uhhh as far as Kedar, you got me there

reply to post by Jordan River

I also think that some of Isaiah referances are not just Jesus, but also a combination of Him and the 2nd coming as well.

If so, then there exists NO objective way to interpret prophecy. One is free to twist and stretch scripture to arrive at a conclusion thats already been determined.

Or maybe Isaiah 42 is about Mohammad...as Mohammad objectively fulfilled it.... so there is no need to invoke the "2nd coming".

As a doctored up version of the gospel, I suggest there are or were many similar copies. If you are an Iranian scholar this is the safest bible you could own. A real bible could get you hung. This copy could have been made so its owner could read it without fear of reprisals from the Islam clergy, or to slant religion in his favor. Guess we will never know.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Freewill certainly changes the outcome of all futures, even prophecy. But how much of true prophecy will you accept as truth is up to you

Originally posted by Jordan River
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Yes it is a very good conspiracy that really needs to be open up some more

There is no conspiracy there. True prophets rarely get any clearer than what Isaiah was saying, they usually speak in riddles and prophetic language to hide the real meaning. All the prophets fortell of Yeshua but his main prophets are Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Zecharia and Hosea.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If so, then there exists NO objective way to interpret prophecy. One is free to twist and stretch scripture to arrive at a conclusion thats already been determined.

Nope, Christ's Holy Spirit tells us where he is. How do you think i found him? I've only been a christian a little over a year now. He wants to be found, thats why he put it there. Those books are His witnesses.

John 10: 11-14

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Nope, if you read the entire chapter in context, it is Yeshua (Jesus) the chapter is about not Muhammad.

I am reading the entire chapter in context.... I just highlighted the parts which were very specific about places pertaining to Mohammad and things that Mohammad did. Isaiah 42 is unique in the sense, it refers to certain places and events.


Verse 11... Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
- This is a specific reference to Arabia. Jesus had nothing to do with Arabia.

Verse 17... But those who trust in idols, who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’ will be turned back in utter shame.
- A very specific reference to Mohammad's ending of idolatry.


Verses 11 and 17 were not arbitrarily put there, were they?
If its not Mohammad, then which Biblical prophet was involved with Arabia AND shamed the idolaters? That's a pretty objective way of identifying the servant of Isaiah 42.
We know for a fact that Jesus wasn't involved with Kedar and the wilderness...nor did he shame any idolater. The only biblical character ever involved with Kedar and the wilderness, i.e Arabia... was Paul. And we know Paul did not do anything to "shame the idolaters".

So that prophecy, along with the others.... could have only been fulfulled by Mohammad.

P.S - Isaiah 53 has nothing to do with the one being prophecied in Isaiah 42. Even if it did foretell Jesus, it does not mean Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 42.

edit on 24-5-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Christianity had already spread to Kedar by 450 A.D. and went a little further into Arabia at the time. Keep in mind the biblical Arabia is not the same Arabia as today which most people think is Saudi-Arabia where Mecca lies. By the time Muhammad began conquering the region paganism had just about dwindled away until Judaism and Christianity were dominant by 600 A.D. The doctrines of Christ were already shaming them.

Paul did make a sojourn to Arabia, where he went exactly or what he did is undisclosed or has yet to be discovered if he left anything about his time there.

So, Jesus did fulfill Isaiah 42 with his Spirit.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


If you dont think the zionist/rothschild thing is a conspiracy, oh well

Hello

I am no expert in anything or do I claim to be. I am just as human as the next person here. My heart tells me that Love, Compassion and Peace is the true way.Despite of all the debating about religion/bibles and anything else that follows, seems to me that religion is a plague that scars the world. Throwing bible verses at each other with an attempt to be right is wrong in my eyes. My mind is so polluted and corrupted with everything that is going on in our world today, I cannot let it speak. What if our creator / God/ Divine father or whatever you choose to call it, message to us is so simple- Love and Peace. We decide to make things hard and complicate issues and situations. All we know, mans "God" could be the greatest form of energy that exists in the universe. No one truly knows. The word God is used so carelessly in this present time.

"We are our own tragedy and tragedy re-writes itself." -KyleR-

Be Safe- Peace

Originally posted by Jordan River
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

If you dont think the zionist/rothschild thing is a conspiracy, oh well

Oh believe me, that definately is a conspiracy and of the worst sort. There isn't a bank in this world that doesn't belong to Rothchild, i'd be willing to wager he is probably the Antichrist. Arts or Usury which is basically legalized theft putting taxes and interest on people is straight up thievery and taking advantage of people, especially poor people.

From what i have read in the scriptures based on current world events Zionists read an awful lot like the "jews who say they are jews but are not" Christ warned about. This will end up tying into the debate on who owns the land ancient Israel once sat on and the disagreement between palestinans and the jews some people say are really Nazi Khazars and that will turn into a bloody mess.

The problem is all of this mess is linked together, and tracing every tentacle on this monster is probably impossible and certainly tedious if anyone tries. I have peices of the puzzle but i am still missing alot.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

By the time Muhammad began conquering the region paganism had just about dwindled away until Judaism and Christianity were dominant by 600 A.D. The doctrines of Christ were already shaming them.

Idolatry was infesting Arabia till Mohammads arrival. The idol worshippers were the biggest obstacle in Mohammads path....and they had to removed and shamed through conflict... before Islam was established in Arabia.

There is NOTHING in the bible about a biblical prophet/character shaming the idolaters of Arabia.

Paul did make a sojourn to Arabia, where he went exactly or what he did is undisclosed or has yet to be discovered if he left anything about his time there.

Paul made a trip to Arabia....yes(Galatians 1:17)
But he did nothing to "shame the idolaters"... Nothing is even known about his work in Arabia. The idolaters were only shamed and run out of town 500 years later after Mohammads arrival.

Read Isaiah 42:13.... it took armed conflict to get rid of the idolaters. Both of us know that neither Jesus nor Paul were involved in armed conflict in Arabia. But the only historical character who shamed the idolaters through conflict was Mohammad.

And islam stands today, 1500 years later... as the ONLY other religion (apart from Christianity) that reveres Jesus as the messiah.
You think its just a co-incidence?
You still think the Islam is of the devil? If yes, then I guess you believe the devil can bring people to accept Jesus as the messiah.

If the church policy is convert or die, you are sure to have a bountiful congregation. However, that is not a religious doctrine.

Originally posted by redneck13
If the church policy is convert or die, you are sure to have a bountiful congregation. However, that is not a religious doctrine.

It is not profitable to force a religion on newborn children and raise them without giving them a choice to choose their own destiny. It takes away their God given right to make that choice for themselves.

Forcing christianity on someone will not save them, they must come of their own will and volition freely. Murdering people who chose to take a ride on a different boat other than islam is also not the way.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Bacon was not created by men, it was discovered that we can cook it, technically speaking.

But f people really think this'll collapse Christianity, think again. Christians believe what they want to believe, and nothing else matters. No amount of facts (not that this new discovery is a fact) will convince a true believer to change their mind.

When you found out that bacon was slices of skin from a pig did it stop making it taste like the exquisite perfection of tastiness that it is?

.

Originally posted by stupid girl
When you found out that bacon was slices of skin from a pig did it stop making it taste like the exquisite perfection of tastiness that it is?

I wouldn't care if bacon was slices of skin from Kevin Bacon. It is delicious.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by stupid girl
When you found out that bacon was slices of skin from a pig did it stop making it taste like the exquisite perfection of tastiness that it is?

I wouldn't care if bacon was slices of skin from Kevin Bacon. It is delicious.

True 'dat.
So is real butter.

And you want extra thick slices of Kevin Bacon's bacon. Got it.

Originally posted by stupid girl
So is real butter.

You keep consuming butter and you will eventually have to replace your organs and other body parts with robotics and cybernetics. No amount of force chokes, laser blasts, or carbonite freezings will cause me to join the lard side.

Originally posted by stupid girl
And you want extra thick slices of Kevin Bacon's bacon. Got it.

Well, he does have that little piggy nose going on.

That bible is fake verified by muslim expert, apparantly the text state's "Muhammad as a messiah" is incorrect because nowhere in the quran mentions muhammad has a messiah.
______________________________________________________

The plan seems to be, to have Muslims get all excited about this, promote on Facebook and the chatrooms, only to have some "expert" come along and prove the whole thing was a fake. This tears down the true dawah of Islam, makes Muslims look foolish and turns our own youth even further away from the deen of Allah.

Let me give only a brief summary of the findings we have collected and verified so far:

To begin, notice the claim "Messiah" shall be called Mohammed (peace be upon him)?
This is a problem.
Quran clearly tells us JESUS IS THE MESSIAH (meaning 'annointed', translated into Koine Greek as 'Christos' and to English as "Christ"). Muhammad, peace be upon him, is called by Allah in the Quran, 'Rasool' (messenger) not Messiah.

Next point - It says, "Mohammed is his blessed name.."
Again, this contradicts the Quran. Clearly in surah As-Saff, chapter 61, verse 6, Allah says, that Jesus, peace be upon him, said "Huwa ismahu Ahmad" (His name will be AHMAD) Not Mohammad.
This is a different form of his name, and one that we all agree is one of his names.
However it is incorrect - because Allah did not say Jesus used the name 'Mohammad'.
Allah said, Jesus used the word 'Ahmad'.

Next point, "Jesus DENIED being the Messiah"??
All Muslims know, Jesus, peace be upon him, was and is - the Messiah (Annointed) of Allah.
That is what he is called in the Quran.

Another point, "..claiming that he or she"??
Since when did any of the accepted scriptures contain this type of reference to a prophet or messener of Allah? (never).
The 'Messiah' of the Old Testament was referred to as a male being born of a virgin (maiden) in Hebrew and the word was masculine - not feminine.
So how could the prophecies of the Old Testament, prophecy of New Testament and the fulfillment of prophecy in the Last Testament (Quran), all be wrong regarding the gender of the 'Messiah'?
Didn't the translator know the Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic languages all have the same capability as Spanish and Italian to indicate within the noun itself what the gender is of the person?
True, in certain Germanic or European languages like English do you need to say, "he or she".
So again, there is no question of the gender of the 'Messiah'.

Just this one verse alone, clearly indicates someone played with scripture, as it would never contain such obvious contradictions.

Incidentally, someone wrote a COMMENT (below) about the words "Messiah" and "Rasool".
These are NOT the same at all. Read . . .

Messiah is the anglicized version of a Hebrew term (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ; Aramaic: ‎משיחא, Məšīḥaʼ; Arabic language مسيح, Masih; all meaning "anointed one");
generally transliterated as Mashiach, designating a king or High Priest, who were traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil as described in Exodus 30:22-25 (the term was not applied exclusively to Jewish kings; the Hebrew Bible refers to Cyrus the great, king of Persia, as a messiah).
Following the death of Simon bar Kokhba, who ruled Judea from 132-135 until defeated by the Romans and who was considered by some to be the last messiah, the term came to refer to a Jewish king who would rule at the end of history.
In later Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, messiah refers to a leader anointed by God, and in some cases, a future King of Israel, physically descended from the Davidic line, who will rule the united tribes of Israel[1] and herald the Messianic Age[2] of global peace.
Muslims see this as the word in Arabic language مسيح, Masih; meaning also, "anointed one" or "wiped" or "rubbed" as this was the tradition of the ceremony of installation of office for a ruler/king of Israel. Reference in Quran is to Jesus, peace be upon him, as the Masih ibn Mariam. The Chosen, the son of Mary.

Rasool means Apostle or Messenger (Arabic: رسول‎ rasūl, plural رسل rusul) is a prophet sent by God.
According to the Qur'an, God sent many prophets to mankind. The five universally acknowledged messengers in Islam are Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad[1], as each is believed to have been sent with a scripture.
Muslim tradition also maintains that Adam received scrolls as did some of the other patriarchs of the Generations of Adam
The term Apostle or Messenger is also applied to prophets sent to preach to specific areas; the Qur'an mentions Jonah, Elijah Ishmail and Shoaib and other prophets as being messengers as well.

Link

reply to post by DumbTopSecretWriters

That bible is fake verified by muslim expert, apparantly the text state's "Muhammad as a messiah" is incorrect because nowhere in the quran mentions muhammad has a messiah.

If the newly discovered Turkish bible indeed states that "Mohammad is the messiah", then I'll say it myself... its fake and a forgery.

Islam never claims that Mohammad or anybody else is the messiah, but rather confirms the bibles statement that Jesus is the messiah.