The Truth About the Garden of Eden Story

Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by CAELENIUM


AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

um, right.

Quoting latin doesn't automatically make your opinion trump all others, nor make you look smarter than everyone else.

SHAMA LAMA DING DONG VERA DOUCHE

*top that*

Are they selling Ayn Rand narcissistic ego steroids in pharmacies now? Is that some sort of shtick? Is that ego fight for real? That's has to be comedy.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by CAELENIUM


AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

um, right.

Quoting latin doesn't automatically make your opinion trump all others, nor make you look smarter than everyone else.

SHAMA LAMA DING DONG VERA DOUCHE

*top that*

Are they selling Ayn Rand narcissistic ego steroids in pharmacies now? Is that some sort of shtick? Is that ego fight for real? That's has to be comedy.

Well, considering the fact that I am aware that "DOUCHE" is not a latin word, I would say that you are correct.

(sorry Randy, but I gotta skee-daddle myself. It's been real y'all....)

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Crazy? There are many who will dub me a ‘nut’ for what I have written in this book. My reply is this: Today’s mighty oak is just yesterday’s nut that held its ground. -David Icke

Mighty oaks have a way of dropping tons of nuts down where they stand.

Okay. I'll be waiting for a line-by-line refutation of everything written in Icke's book, but not holding my breath of course. You guys can heap your one-liners but can never back them up.

Haven't read this book, but have listened (in full) to a number of his speeches. Offhand, here are some examples

-stood in a magic spot in peru where he felt energy communicate truth to him, etc-
this of course cannot be disproven, as it is just a claim of something subjective and paranormal where nobody else with him noticed anything...he just stood in a spot and meditated for a bit, how do you refute something like that beyond...just stating what the objective facts are...no big ray of spacelight came down, no angels appeared, etc.

-believes reptile people walk around wearing skin to hide their reptilian face-
first off, no proof at all..whatsoever..no fingernail of a reptile found, nothing..just some wild conjecture based on ancient mythos.
But...BUT...lets say for a half second that his claims are true anyhow...lets toss out the sheer absurdity of it all and say..ok..sure..your right..reptilian aliens are here and disguised.
Since when is it ok to be racist? Not only is he crazy...but if he isn't crazy, then he is just some hillbilly wanting to hate on someone different..so two wrongs there.

-nwo stuff-
This is the biggest issue I have with him. There is global corporatists that control the world (more or less) now..but the fact that he pushes his insane rantings on the same road as this very real issue cheapens the discussion. This is disinfo..its a poison pill shoved into a proper dinner..you don't want to eat the dinner, because you will end up swallowing the pill..so you toss the whole lot out.

I don't know if Icke is literally clinically crazy or not..but what he did on the discourse of global dynamics is near unforgivable and the best anyone whom actually is concerned about the corporate ownership of this planet needs to dismiss icke as soon as possible as the disinfo it is (enough truth to listen, enough crazy to dismiss it all and prop up the status quo)

So thats my big beef with his movement.

(oh, and still waiting for that solar logos...mhmm...still waiting..)
2/3rds of his stuff is just ripping off Alice Bailey anyhow

reply to post by randyvs


Well, I'll happily take class as a compliment
I never said I was special. Just different.
Special would involve some sort of self-righteousness or self-aggrandizing nonsense.
My religion doesn't allow for that.

Now:

Yes, I read your answer. But, it wasn't really what I was asking.
I was asking, where is the scriptural evidence for your opinion that Adam and Eve were created as immortal beings?

Let's look at that verse again:

Genesis 2:17

17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now let's look at what God had to say after the fact:

Genesis 3:17-19

17) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

And that is exactly what happened. Adam and Eve died a human death.

Now, go look up every "in the day" in the Bible and compare it. It didn't always mean "on THAT day".

Back "in the day", people would have thought you were being blasphemous!

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


If God said you shall surely die if they eat from the tree.
Where does that leave them if they refused to be beguiled and didn't eat there of. It simply deduced that death would have no place with them.

Is it not ?

I sense you being very facetious here.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Crazy? There are many who will dub me a ‘nut’ for what I have written in this book. My reply is this: Today’s mighty oak is just yesterday’s nut that held its ground. -David Icke

Mighty oaks have a way of dropping tons of nuts down where they stand.

Okay. I'll be waiting for a line-by-line refutation of everything written in Icke's book, but not holding my breath of course. You guys can heap your one-liners but can never back them up.

Haven't read this book, but have listened (in full) to a number of his speeches. Offhand, here are some examples

-stood in a magic spot in peru where he felt energy communicate truth to him, etc-
this of course cannot be disproven, as it is just a claim of something subjective and paranormal where nobody else with him noticed anything...he just stood in a spot and meditated for a bit, how do you refute something like that beyond...just stating what the objective facts are...no big ray of spacelight came down, no angels appeared, etc.

-believes reptile people walk around wearing skin to hide their reptilian face-
first off, no proof at all..whatsoever..no fingernail of a reptile found, nothing..just some wild conjecture based on ancient mythos.
But...BUT...lets say for a half second that his claims are true anyhow...lets toss out the sheer absurdity of it all and say..ok..sure..your right..reptilian aliens are here and disguised.
Since when is it ok to be racist? Not only is he crazy...but if he isn't crazy, then he is just some hillbilly wanting to hate on someone different..so two wrongs there.

-nwo stuff-
This is the biggest issue I have with him. There is global corporatists that control the world (more or less) now..but the fact that he pushes his insane rantings on the same road as this very real issue cheapens the discussion. This is disinfo..its a poison pill shoved into a proper dinner..you don't want to eat the dinner, because you will end up swallowing the pill..so you toss the whole lot out.

I don't know if Icke is literally clinically crazy or not..but what he did on the discourse of global dynamics is near unforgivable and the best anyone whom actually is concerned about the corporate ownership of this planet needs to dismiss icke as soon as possible as the disinfo it is (enough truth to listen, enough crazy to dismiss it all and prop up the status quo)

So thats my big beef with his movement.

(oh, and still waiting for that solar logos...mhmm...still waiting..)
2/3rds of his stuff is just ripping off Alice Bailey anyhow

Icke claims to be able to sense energies. I don't have a problem with that and neither should any spiritual person. There is now scientific evidence to explain psychic phenomena. This doesn't make a person "crazy".

The point I was making are that the facts in the book, the history, the family connections, the symbolism, and the agenda is undeniable and indisputable. The facts don't lie. We are in serious trouble if they are left to finish what they started out to do.

As for the reptilian stuff, I don't even think Icke fully understands that this has to do with the "Higher Self" and with interdimensional energies. All souls are not the same and everything is evolving at different rates and is at different points of evolution. Compassion and benevolence is something that has to be learned. These people in that regard are no different from the animals. So this has to do with the nature of the soul, not the makeup of the physical body. You and I are just spirits trapped in a meat suit. Our spirit has the Divine Spark, theirs is lacking the Divine Spark, therefore they lack human emotions. Everything is about serving themselves. It is up to us to remove them from power. As long as we keep taking it up the butt from them they will continue accommodating our Masochistic whims.

Originally posted by stupid girl
Wow.
Your OP has taken delusion to a whole new level.
Between this thread & the "Jesus Was Gay" thread, I feel like I need to go scrub my eyes with bleach.

For what it's worth now that we've amassed 10 pages of discussion on this drivel, I will share my point of view which I stated in a previous thread a few weeks ago. I do this with the intent and hope that the person who needs to read it will find it and it will help to lift the veil of deceit and lead them on to further Truths.

Thank you so much for bringing a fresh perspective to what otherwise had become the same ole' same ole' never ending attack on Faith.
Hebrews 13:2
While reading your personal account I was moved in my spirit and now see the direction I was hoping to find.
I had left other forums because of the blasphemies, the slanders, the ill-will, and the evil that permeated throughout them all.. No amount of Love can destroy a barrier of intentional hate.

Being true to their nature is only natural for them. Since this battle of good vs evil has always been in the mind why do Christians not comprehend that the sole intent of evil is to mess with their minds in hoping to shatter that which is most dear, their loving outlook. No amount of historical evidence will sway the contrary opinions and as the Bible states, the path is wide but the gate is narrow.

To sink to their level doesn't benefit any but does hurt the believer.

They do not want to believe the Bible nor admit that Adam and Eve were real flesh and blood but instead push the concept of a fable stolen from prior cultures. They will treasure words of men and deny the divinity of God.

It had all been written and doesn't surprise but what is surprising that no amount of logic or reasoning will change them... true to their natures anytime a thread of Faith is posted they attack it relentlessly and in waves since they like to tag-team the believers.

Not so much here at ATS as the mods and owners do keep a fairly civil decorum but rather than ban a repeat offender they merely remove the offending posts and need to constantly police the boards rather than rely on the integrity of the posters.

In the beginning of creation as you yourself know, children are not only without understanding but without speech or meaningful language. What they emulate is gibberish as that is what it means in their developing brains. How then did God even tell Adam and Eve to not eat of the tree to begin with?

Imagery perhaps?

An interesting image I came across the other day was found in the field of molecular biology. There is a protein, one of tens of thousands in the body (they don't even know how many there are) that is a cell adhesion molecule... a building block of life since around it is formed the human body.




Laminins are major proteins in the basal lamina (one of the layers of the basement membrane), a protein network foundation for most cells and organs. (wiki)
What is interesting is that the cross of crucifixion is what binds all mankind together.

While I floundered on this action in thinking "Blessed are those who believe yet have not seen" (I didn't want to rob any of their rightful Blessing) it now occurs to me that not all are so Blessed even though the gates of Heaven will still be open for them if they only come to believe. Like a thief is made to feel I now Pray

My Lord, I Pray if it is in your will to do so, visit these unrepentant souls with three days dreaming
In the most precious name of Jesus I Pray,
Amen

Where two or more are gathered in His name He is there and seeing that there is still good to be found (as I was moved to this realization by reading your words and trust me, you are far from stupid) I now see that since history or the Biblical record isn't convincing them that only real-time manifestation will. A parlor trick? Hardly... a shared dream by the masses can't be induced via psychological triggering...

Thank you again for your direction even if it means I diminish my worth. The archangels have dominion over all and chaos needs to be checked. If my Prayer fails I also understand that it is not the Lords will but my own that seeks harmony amidst discord and some things are just meant to be.
I will cease in my efforts
We are judged by the company we keep and the falling away will commence. Writing off humanity is the final step that brings the end as it was eventually meant to be to usher in judgment day and since Faith without works is dead then this spirit in which I engage others is warranted.

It is time to take the kid gloves off and my "blindness" in Faith needs no justification to me but shall either become manifest for all to see or stifle my effort at proving.
Dear Lord, forgive my transgression You know heart and soul and my mind seeks resolution and justice

Originally posted by steve1709
reply to post by seamus

 

G'day seamus. An interesting take on it but re this part of your explaination, "(note, this source is not the authoritarian himself; the authoritarian is merely the faithful servant of the Infinite). ", if this authoritarian is only a faithful servant, how come IT is referred to as god? Is it a fake?, Is it a LIAR?

Good questions all! It is referred to as god because that serves the purpose of the experience (the fall and rise of humanity). It is a fake, and it is a liar (though he's supposed to lie). He might not even be a small-g god. But his heart's in the right place. Someone has to wear the devil suit when you live in duality, and he was willing to do it. He'll get his reward! As will everyone. The Creator truly is Omnibenevolent

hey, hang on, that what it seemed to be in the OP too, wow, sure sounds like IT is a top thing. Pretending to be the be all and end all of everything when, by what you say, it is only something elses' lacky

Yeah. we're all lackeys, man. Get used to it. I guarantee you haven't got the resources, mental, physical, or spiritual, to manage the multiverse.

Originally posted by Destiny10
I forgot to mention that people will do anything to get what they want, even sell their soul. Sometimes, I believe it is an accident or error, but often it is deliberate. Yes, I believe that some have actually sold their soul to the devil for the man, for the woman, for wealth, for anything their little heart desires. They figure God forgives and all will be well. "Do what thou wilt." huh, hope you're not the one in their way!

edit on 04/18/2012 by Destiny10 because: (no reason given)

They have no way that is not opened to them by the Creator. Remember, the devil himself has to ask permission to pick on Job.

ETA: if you are fuming over having been in the path of some OTO members at some point, just consider this: why did you choose to have that experience? No experience comes without benefit or having made the choice to have it. No matter how painful it may be, war is teaching humanity not to believe other men who instill them with fear. No man is worthy of your fear. The fictional character of Riddick said it best: "I bow to no man." It truly is better to die at the hands of criminals than to live in fear of them. Once most criminals see that, they will no longer see you as a target, as their way to cause you pain has been shut to them. Recall the instances of firearms failing to fire recently. It happens, and it's happening more. People are starting to climb out of the impossibly deep hole they have dug for themselves.

Silly Christies... always believing in evil and perpetuating the Original Sin (which is belief that the Creator might have something less-than-optimal planned for you)

So, Hoss... what force is there in the universe able to thwart the will of an Infinite, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent being? Hmm? Crickets?

Originally posted by stupid girl
And for me, your other question is moot:

Would you threaten them with death?

If I tell my child that by eating Oleander they will die, that is a fact not a threat. I have never questioned God's intent in that regard, therefore I disagree with your point of view and have nothing of value to share with you in the attempt to answer your question.

I'm not so sure. You could be right, but let's look at it like this: You've prepared a meal for your children. You've made fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and corn. It all looks delicious. Yet, you tell them that they can eat the fried chicken and mashed potatoes, but if they eat the corn they will die. Why put the corn there to begin with, and what will make them die? Is it poisonous? Will something jump out and kill them? What is the mechanics behind the death? Who invented it?

reply to post by ilian51378


1)..."why did he even create us in that case? Why would he create something that he would eventually have to destroy? "

Not all are destined for destruction. While God had cleansed the world in the past and reduced mankind to beginning roots the tree (family) of Adam and Eve did propogate via another son after Cain was outcast.
Gen 4:26 (the birth of Enos) ..." then began men to call upon the name of the Lord."

Gen 6:3 "...my spirit shall not always strive with man..."

"2) If God gave us the 10 commendments (one of which is "Thou shalt not kill), then why did he order us, in numerous ocasions, to go ahead and kill these or those other people (remember the promised land)? If we are prohibited to kill, then why didn't he do that job so that we don't have to do it? He could have taken care of the promised land and just told us to walk into it and live marily ever after... "

Ever seen an animal caught in a leg trap? Chewing off a limb to save the body.


"3) How come God can posses certain qualities that we are not allowed to, yet he teaches us to strive and be like Him? For example, He can be mad and furious and punish, kill and so forth, while he tells us that we can't do those things? Before you say that He can do it, because He is God and He is holy, think about the fact that he wants us to and teaches us to be like Him, yet he sets this example..."

Righteous indignation

"4) Why did God give us the choice between good and evil? He could have given us two positive things to choose from, such as, good and better so that the chance for us to go wrong are completely eliminated and He gets to be happy and so do we."

How can you teach about the color red to one blind since birth? By example

If a lesson isn't shown in contrast it will inevitably lead in other directions of understanding which in this case is the leaning towards evil. Without pointing evil out in recognition then man would learn it on his own and God spares us a hardship that would be much worse than loving guidance to bring it into the light of understanding.

How many demonic possessions could mankind endure all at once is the question and when all good is removed from this world that answer will become self-evident.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


I saw your post but I felt like I had already covered that by saying most of the opening post was/is his opinion that he used as facts. To argue his side of the interpretation you have to at least pretend to accept his opinion to what he thinks the root words were and that those root words change the meaning of the story. I don't agree with his opinion on those root words being the true meaning of the story.

Take this for example:


To follow his narrative you have to believe his opinion about the words meaning based on its root words. I feel like you can spin just about any word to mean whatever you want based on root words and so I didn't want to get into that line of thinking with you.

reply to post by SilentKoala



Sin in the world didn't start because Eve ate an apple, fruit is here for our food.

Eating the apple was symbolic for having sex with Satan, hence Cain was the result, seed of the devil. This was the plan to prevent Jesus from coming.

The story continues on, why did God flood the earth? Satan was trying to pollute the bloodline in which Jesus would come through.

Quit thinking so hard about it, and use a Strong's Concordance, break the English back to the Hebrew and the story comes together easily.


Watch the first 10 min of this video.

Originally posted by anoncoholic
No amount of historical evidence will sway the contrary opinions and as the Bible states, the path is wide but the gate is narrow.

You mixed the two. The path is broad and the gate is wide that leads to destruction and many find it. Small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to life and few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

Originally posted by anoncoholic
They do not want to believe the Bible nor admit that Adam and Eve were real flesh and blood but instead push the concept of a fable stolen from prior cultures. They will treasure words of men and deny the divinity of God.

You don't want to believe in the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita. You deny the divinity of those gods. But seriously, in the same way you don't believe those things, we don't believe your biblical stories either. Sure, there may be truth in them, but is it really the word of a god, or the acts of a god?

Originally posted by anoncoholic
It had all been written and doesn't surprise but what is surprising that no amount of logic or reasoning will change them... true to their natures anytime a thread of Faith is posted they attack it relentlessly and in waves since they like to tag-team the believers.

I ask questions to the muslims when they post too. Don't you? Are you attacking them when you do?

Originally posted by anoncoholic
While I floundered on this action in thinking "Blessed are those who believe yet have not seen" (I didn't want to rob any of their rightful Blessing) it now occurs to me that not all are so Blessed even though the gates of Heaven will still be open for them if they only come to believe.

I don't give a # about being blessed or receiving awards.

Originally posted by steve1709

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
genesis is a difficult read really. there are so many questions as you go along. i think it is important to remember that everything in the book was passed down orally through many many years before it was written. point being, there's no telling how everything really happened. the stories could've been butchered through the oral tradition over time. just my two cents. (:

I didn't know that clay tablets and cylinder seals could talk. Many of the bible stories are summaries of the information found in the Sumerian tablets. 10s of 1000s of them, DUG UP so for others on here alluding to them being fake, (that would mean someone must have dug up a mountain, put the many many tablets down ALL OVER THE PLACE and replaced the mountain) have been found and the early books of the bible show a very uncanny similarity to them. So the idea of the "stories" being passed down orally is old hat imo

i apologize if i offended you, it was just my take.

Originally posted by xstealth

Sin in the world didn't start because Eve ate an apple, fruit is here for our food.

Eating the apple was symbolic for having sex with Satan, hence Cain was the result, seed of the devil. This was the plan to prevent Jesus from coming.

Can you please point me in the direction of where this interpretation and information comes from?

Eve wasn't the only one who ate from the apple, Adam did too. So, what are you saying?

As you will recall, this all happened before Abel was born too, yet it wasn't the line of Abel from which Jesus was born either. It was from their 3rd son, Seth, that Jesus' lineage began.

Can you please explain this for me?

this is an idea i had and i figure ill share it in this thread and see if anything is thought of it,


the idea is that the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" is meat/flesh of other creatures........ im not sure what early mans diet consisted of,, but it could be that the snake tempted man to catch prey,,,, man now craving with temptation the meat of other creatures,,,, the meat gives man more energy, allows him do do more in less time, sharpens his mind with coming up with inventive ways to catch prey,,,,,,

"the tree of knowledge and good and evil" the tree could represent the animal kingdom tree... or it can represent a rooting path of potential,, if man did not take this path whatever it was, then no animal would be intelligent, nothing we know of that occurred on earth would have taken place, we would all be far more simple creatures, simple aspirations and needs, compared to the current model.... following the path we did,, in searching for knowledge, storing information, labeling and judging every speck of creation relative to ourselves,.. knowledge and extremely critical self awareness magnified the aspect of death by many fold,,, the fear of death and knowledge of limited time of life is a propellant for man to strive to be strong, maintain, and progress,, to live a fulfilling life... where as maybe a monkey or a cat does not feel much pressure or stress about the woes of death, those left behind, those who will miss, but a man, will surely die in every sense of the word.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by xstealth

Sin in the world didn't start because Eve ate an apple, fruit is here for our food.

Eating the apple was symbolic for having sex with Satan, hence Cain was the result, seed of the devil. This was the plan to prevent Jesus from coming.

Can you please point me in the direction of where this interpretation and information comes from?

Eve wasn't the only one who ate from the apple, Adam did too. So, what are you saying?

As you will recall, this all happened before Abel was born too, yet it wasn't the line of Abel from which Jesus was born either. It was from their 3rd son, Seth, that Jesus' lineage began.

Can you please explain this for me?

This will really help you understand quicker...

Originally posted by xstealth
reply to post by SilentKoala

 

Sin in the world didn't start because Eve ate an apple, fruit is here for our food.

Eating the apple was symbolic for having sex with Satan, hence Cain was the result, seed of the devil. This was the plan to prevent Jesus from coming.

The story continues on, why did God flood the earth? Satan was trying to pollute the bloodline in which Jesus would come through.

Quit thinking so hard about it, and use a Strong's Concordance, break the English back to the Hebrew and the story comes together easily.

Thank you for this post. I am not as Bible literate as I would hope (or should be) and my posts for the most part are drawn from what little I do know and I have never used a concordance. I always wanted to see the original text to be better able to deduce the meaning behind the facts... or translations as it were.

Anything I am saying comes from me on an intuitive level and now thanks to you my understanding should increase. I had never read that the tree is a family tree, it is something I surmised just like I interpret about being cast into (or just "in"and the translation changed the meaning) the pit meant (to me at least) being cast like a building block.(stone)

There is so much knowledge that brings wisdom contained in the Bible I am drawn to it like a hungry scholar searching for that answer to the most difficult of questions.

I think it is time to take a few days away from the contentious behavior and truly get back in touch with self - rather than reflect the environment I immerse myself.

Thanks again!