Riddle me this christians

So in reference to christianity... If god is omnipotent... all seeing, all knowing, all powerful. God knew the results of creating lucifer. God knew what lucifer would one day do (remember god is omnipotent now) God knew that humans would sin. He knew that satan would fill all with sinful nature... God knew all this and intentionally created satan/lucifer. Since God is omnipotent he knew what he was creating to begin with. Now we are told that angels do not have free will. So how could lucifer do what he did unless God made him? If god is omnipotent and created angels to be without free will then how could one defy that? Basically what I am getting at is that by christian belief satan was created by god. So was evil. Therefore evil is gods will. Satan has nothing to do with it he is just doing what god wills. So evil is gods will as well as good and god is responsible for all evil as well as good. So why would he send people to hell knowingly influencing them to be evil and commit evil deeds? Why would god knowingly create something just to send it to burn for being what he created it to be?

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
So in reference to christianity... If god is omnipotent... all seeing, all knowing, all powerful. God knew the results of creating lucifer. God knew what lucifer would one day do (remember god is omnipotent now) God knew that humans would sin. He knew that satan would fill all with sinful nature... God knew all this and intentionally created satan/lucifer. Since God is omnipotent he knew what he was creating to begin with. Now we are told that angels do not have free will. So how could lucifer do what he did unless God made him? If god is omnipotent and created angels to be without free will then how could one defy that? Basically what I am getting at is that by christian belief satan was created by god. So was evil. Therefore evil is gods will. Satan has nothing to do with it he is just doing what god wills. So evil is gods will as well as good and god is responsible for all evil as well as good. So why would he send people to hell knowingly influencing them to be evil and commit evil deeds? Why would god knowingly create something just to send it to burn for being what he created it to be?

I don't know of any scripture that says that angels don't have free will. Why do you think they don't?

Not Christian,, but pagan, but was raised that way,, and remember this:


Isaiah 45:6-7
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."


so,, he unabashedly admits it...

I am a firm believer that just like it is in humans,,, 1 in 25 Deities are schizophrenic Or psychotic. Some are just worse than others.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin
Because god gave man freewill to test us and i don't follow the bible.

reply to post by Redux


Every church I have been too which would be methodist baptist and a couple others i dont remember the names all said so. Also that is pretty commonly stated by many of the religious people I have encountered

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


hahaha thats great. Will have to remember that

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


You pose a good and tricky question but I'm not sure how theologically sound it is. The Bible, the only work Central to Christianity, says almost nothing about Satan or lucifer. What your describing comes from Milton's Paradise Lost and does not appear in the Bible as you told it. So if your considering Paradise Lost, a non-cannonized book written in like 1600 as Fact then I guess your question is still valid.

NOT trying to be a wise a$$ here but SERIOUSLY.. Have you EVER thought about asking HIM? Some of you will debate this and argue about this kind of thing for DAYS on end but it always comes down to one thing: YOU! Years ago I had a supernatural encounter with God and that was it for me, I KNEW who He was and I didn't have to ask whats up with all this crazy stuff that makes NO sense. You NEED to meet GOD face to face or else you are just wasting YOUR time.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin
Well he does give people a chance, and like i said before i do not follow the bible like some do. but
the commandments are there he gives you freel will to do good or evil so i am not sure what these churches are telling you .

Originally posted by Murgatroid
NOT trying to be a wise a$$ here but SERIOUSLY.. Have you EVER thought about asking HIM? Some of you will debate this and argue about this kind of thing for DAYS on end but it always comes down to one thing: YOU! Years ago I had a supernatural encounter with God and that was it for me, I KNEW who He was and I didn't have to ask whats up with all this crazy stuff that makes NO sense. You NEED to meet GOD face to face or else you are just wasting YOUR time.

Give him my number and tell him to call me because hes allways engaged and won't pick up

Originally posted by MurgatroidYears ago I had a supernatural encounter with God and that was it for me, I KNEW who He was and I didn't have to ask

Really tell us ?

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
So in reference to christianity... If god is omnipotent... all seeing, all knowing, all powerful. God knew the results of creating lucifer. God knew what lucifer would one day do (remember god is omnipotent now) God knew that humans would sin. He knew that satan would fill all with sinful nature... God knew all this and intentionally created satan/lucifer. Since God is omnipotent he knew what he was creating to begin with. Now we are told that angels do not have free will. So how could lucifer do what he did unless God made him? If god is omnipotent and created angels to be without free will then how could one defy that? Basically what I am getting at is that by christian belief satan was created by god. So was evil. Therefore evil is gods will. Satan has nothing to do with it he is just doing what god wills. So evil is gods will as well as good and god is responsible for all evil as well as good. So why would he send people to hell knowingly influencing them to be evil and commit evil deeds? Why would god knowingly create something just to send it to burn for being what he created it to be?

False, they do have free will. Satan was not created evil, either. He was created nearly perfect (though not perfect, otherwise he wouldn't have Sinned).

Ezekiel 28:13-19
Notice a few verses -

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.

Evil is not God's will. Evil is a lack of God. With our free will, we choose to obey God, or disobey. By "doing the will of the Father", which is to believe in Christ and the redemption and forgiveness through the blood of Him, we can go to Heaven - once we receive "the Helper", which is the Holy Spirit, we do not do things out of our own desire, because our desires are wicked, but instead we do things of God - the most important being Love. We learn to Love and we learn to forgive, and we learn to sacrifice. Only things that is in God's nature.

Finally God doesn't send anyone to Hell. He is unwilling any should perish - look at the accounts of Jesus, when the High Priests brought an Adulterer before him, and he said to the crowd that those who were without sin may cast the first stone. Once everyone dispersed, Jesus asked the Adulterer where her accusers were, and after saying there were none left, he said to her, "Nor do I accuse you - Go, and leave your life of sin."

The only one who had the right to condemn her, and he chose not to. So don't say God is sending people to hell. People are sending themselves. God made it super easy to avoid eternal damnation - simply by believing in Christ and that all your sins are forgiven, and repenting of your ways.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
you are going to debate this and argue about this kind of thing for DAYS on end

No i have better things to do than argue over religion .

A) Im not 'Christian.'
B) There is no such thing as 'good' and 'evil.' It just is. Humans define, judge and separate everything.
C) satan was god's greatest gift to us. Without being able to know what god is NOT how are we ever supposed to know what god IS. This life is about experiencing what god is not so we can choose with our free will to go back to him.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin

The only one who had the right to condemn her, and he chose not to. So don't say God is sending people to hell. People are sending themselves. God made it super easy to avoid eternal damnation - simply by believing in Christ and that all your sins are forgiven, and repenting of your ways.

Pretty much what i said

Follow the rules the ten commandments its that simple.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
Not Christian,, but pagan, but was raised that way,, and remember this:


Isaiah 45:6-7
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."


so,, he unabashedly admits it...

I am a firm believer that just like it is in humans,,, 1 in 25 Deities are schizophrenic Or psychotic. Some are just worse than others.

God is the Creator of all things. But it's His nature to be good, to be perfect. And just because you create something does not give you the attributes of what you create, you simply have knowledge of how to make it, and since God has the knowledge of everything, he is the creator of everything.

Now this might be tough to understand, but bear with me - Did you know, that if I built a watch, that does not make me a watch? It's true, I remain who I am. In the same way, God has knowledge of both Good AND Evil - so when Satan deceived Eve, he was using his usual tricks - throw in a bit of a truth, with a whole lot of lie. We DID gain knowledge of Good and Evil, but we surely did die. The wages of Sin are death, and through Adam came sin, and death by sin.

reply to post by Redux


Angels do not have free will because free will was a gift bestowed upon Humans from God.... If the Angels had it, then it would not have been a big deal.

Originally posted by denver22
Pretty much what i said

Follow the rules the ten commandments its that simple.

Following the Commandments doesn't get you to Heaven. The OT and the Law is put there to show us what God's standards are, and how man failed all these years. There's only one way to Heaven. The Thief on the Cross found out who he was, and all he did was ask Jesus to remember him, and he is now in Heaven.

The Hebrew word 'rah' that was translated in that instance has many other meanings. I believe in this context it would be better translated as 'disaster' as in a natural occurrence rather than 'evil'. I am just human though so there is chance I am wrong.

I believe you are trying to make the arguement that God is evil because he created evil? Is that correct?

Originally posted by denver22
Give him my number and tell him to call me because hes always engaged and won't pick up

DUDE... He HAS your number already! .. He's waiting for YOU to return HIS call!

AS AN ANSWER TO A DYING MOTHER'S FERVENT, DAILY PRAYERS, GOD MIRACULOUSLY CAUSED TWO DISTANT TELEPHONES TO RING SIMULTANEOUSLY

Vincent Tan, a chemist in Chattanooga had a supernatural encounter with an Angel named Gabriel in March of 1993. (Explained here) A woman in Iowa who was diagnosed with cancer and near death read about Vincent's experience.

On Saturday, April 6, 1996, Vincent was awakened at 4:30 a.m. with a burden to pray. He slipped to his knees beside his bed for a few moments, after which he returned to bed and to sleep. He arose later, and at 7 a.m. began his morning prayer time. At 7:30, as he was still praying, the telephone rang. So as not to be disturbed, he decided to let the answering machine take the call.

"Hello," Vincent said. Surprisingly, the other party also said, "Hello." Again, Vincent said, "Hello." Again, the lady on the other end said, "Hello." Vincent asked, "Do you want to speak to me?" The lady said, "No."

Vincent then asked, "Then why did you call me?" The lady said, "I didn't call you." Vincent explained that his phone rang and he had answered it. The lady said the same thing happened to her--that her phone rang and she had answered it. Vincent told her his name, and she said her name was Doris, and that she was in Iowa. They both concluded that somehow their lines must've become crossed, causing this freak mishap.

But in another surprise, Doris asked, "Are you the same Vincent who had an experience with an angel?" Vincent said yes. She said that every day for the past six months her mother had prayed that she would be able to meet or speak with Vincent before she died. In her prayers about this, she had claimed the promises of Jeremiah 32:27, which says, "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" and Jeremiah 33:3: "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Doris explained that her mother was near death, and how that very morning, at 3:30 a.m., Iowa time (the exact same as Vincent's prayer at 4:30 a.m., Eastern Time) she was awake and felt led to seek the Lord and remind Him of her mother's request. She asked if Vincent would speak with her mother, to which Vincent agreed. At the end of his description, Vincent heard the mother say weakly, "Praise the Lord. Amen." This was followed by silence. All was strangely quiet. Vincent waited, thinking that Doris was taking him off the speaker. After a few moments, Doris broke the silence and came back on the regular telephone. "Praise the Lord," she said. "My mother just died." Quoted from here

"Long distance... (prayer) the next best thing to being there..."