PAYPAL - Judge, Jury and Executioner (the conclusion)

Originally posted by jannerfish
But your case sounds bizarre OP.

It is bizarre because either we're not being told the entire story, or the OP went against the T & C's of Paypal by not choosing to disclose his annual income.

I've been using Paypal for almost 10 years, and have a Premiere account with them for more than half of that, and have never had a problem with Paypal themselves.

Paypal doesn't just hold peoples' money because they feel like it. Paypal doesn't just take money out of peoples' bank accounts without permission because they feel like it. Something's going on here that we're not privy to and this whole thing stinks.

I will say, that you can't just sign up for a Paypal account, get paid, and then send that money to your bank all in the same day, or even the same week, for that matter. To have the money sent to your bank account, the bank account must be Verified, and Paypal does this by sending two small deposits to your bank, after you disclose your account number and routing number. You then go into your account, enter those deposit amounts, and then you are able to use your bank account for purchases, or withdraw money from Paypal and send it to your bank account.

I'm sorry, OP, that you have to wait 6 months to see your money, but something sounds fishy here. Paypal doesn't do this sort of thing without good reason, and I'm not seeing any good reason listed in your threads other than you not disclosing your annual income. Either we're not being told every single detail of this ordeal, or Paypal is pissed (and probably against T & C's) that you didn't disclose your annual income.

You feel that it's none of their business to disclose your annual income, but it is their business if you want to use their service, plain and simple.

Had you set your account up and had been as truthful/forthcoming as possible with the information they requested, you would likely not be in this situation. I hope that this ordeal makes you think next time before you try to tell a company who's service you want to use, that it's none of their business about information that they request.

On a final note, you're quite lucky you used Paypal for the Ebay transaction. Ebay explicitly states to never use Western Union or direct bank transfers. For a direct bank transfer like you were originally going to use, that would require disclosing your routing and account number to a stranger who can withdraw money from your account any time. You could potentially have put yourself at risk to lose much more money out of your bank account, had you gone with the direct transfer option. And good on the buyer for requesting Paypal instead of the more "shady" ways to pay.

That is why Paypal exists. So that Paypal can keep your credit card and bank information safe while you can securely purchase or sell things on the internet.

This whole thing stinks to high-heaven.

Okay, maybe the OP was directly responsible by not providing his annual estimated income
to Paypal as part of their normal business data gathering.

BUT

I fail to see why personal income information would be required to make a simple transfer
of funds via this Paypal third party.

And the question raised is pertinent. How much personal information are we willing to freely
give up to private corporations for the sake of conveience. In a free-market if you disagree
with the amount of personal information required by a third party to do business with
them, then you can "vote with your feet" as they say and seek a less intrusive company
to conduct business.

But, because of global corporations and monopolies in certain sectors we have fewer and fewer
choices, so voting with your feet is becoming a thing of the past.

An electric utility advertized a great rate yesterday. So I visited their website to inquire about
rates and WAS REQUIRED to give name, address, previous utility co., and e-mail---just so
I could view their rates...

I voted with my feet

Originally posted by mileysubet
So you refused and or lied about your income to a credit based money exchange company, and now your angry?

how is it credit based!!?!?!?!

Paypal do not give him credit, he receives money from a person for sale of goods, what nonsense is this?

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by jannerfish
But your case sounds bizarre OP.

Paypal doesn't just hold peoples' money because they feel like it. Paypal doesn't just take money out of peoples' bank accounts without permission because they feel like it.

yes. yes they do.. frequently, and to many many people. just type 'paypal scam' into google and it will bring you enough results to prove that to you.

Originally posted by ladyteeny

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by jannerfish
But your case sounds bizarre OP.

Paypal doesn't just hold peoples' money because they feel like it. Paypal doesn't just take money out of peoples' bank accounts without permission because they feel like it.

yes. yes they do.. frequently, and to many many people. just type 'paypal scam' into google and it will bring you enough results to prove that to you.

exactly, I would love to know how much frigging interest income they generate from disgracefully holding monies for 180 days in their OWN bank accounts- they should be forced to refund with interest and other *as yet undetermined* damages to their customers

Hopefully others will do the same.

I had a problem with something I sold on Ebay. USPS shipped the item and damaged it so the buyer wanted $30 to cover the price of a new wheel (for an amp). I agreed to pay and all was honky dorey. Except for Paypal who put a hold on my account and withdrew $300 from my bank account, sending my into debt and getting $120 in overdraft fees. I called, they admitted it was a mistake and the money was sent back. Except it takes them a week to send my money back when they can send and received instantly when its convenient to them. And they dont care I lost $120 in overdraft fees, neither did my bank of course So I sold something on ebay to get cash and ended up broke and in more debt. Paypal isnt breaking the law because their entire system is set up to cover their asses. That still doesnt change the fact they suck. The entire concept was created in order to suck even more money out of ebay users, especially now that its universally used by most on there so you have no choice but to give Ebay a cut of your profits and then paypal a cut.

when a bank gets robbed, does the bank manager send emails begging the thieves to return the loot.

what do you think the min. wage costumer service schmucks, if they are even in america, do when they receive multiple emails from the same person crying for his money back.

they pass the first one up the chain of command and then laugh at all the rest with the person in the cubicle beside them.

your only recourse is legal action with a lawyer that is willing to sue for your money back and legal fees.

or a youtube crazy video rant where you go mental with all sorts of vulgarities and then kill a basket of kittens in a fit of uncontrolled rage.

that would probably go viral, give paypal bad publicity, help with your legal case and put more coin in the bank because of the "mental anguish" paypal has caused.

I have to say, you know, paypal haven't dealt with this very well...

But still, you can't sign up for something then dictate their rules, you know? I think it's lousy that they have withheld your money from you, they shouldn't be allowed to do so, they should have either blocked the transaction completely, or given you the money before closing or suspending your account.

But they're well within their rights to define their own rules, terms and conditions, nobody forces you to sign up...it'd be like charging into the girl scouts and demanding to join even though you're a man...there's rules - girls only.

Nobody forced you to sign with paypal, I'm sure another potential bidder would have bought the goods in the end using your preferred method. From reading the original thread the other day I kinda got the impression you grudgingly signed up to use paypal, but really didn't want to.

They asked for information...and let's be honest - it's hardly sensitive information (how much you earn) and instead of just telling them you wrote a remark about how it's none of their business...didn't you say you sent them scans of something...was it a drivers licence or what? I can't remember, but to me it was more personal or sensitive than your annual income.

In summary, I think it's lousy how paypal handled this, I agree it's unfair that they can withhold your own money from you...but still, you kind of drew attention to yourself unnecessarily...so I think you're both wrong.

Sorry, hope you get it straightened out...and also hope you learned something...sometimes it's best to keep your opinions to yourself - we don't always like it but such is life.

Total , blatant nonsence, sorry OP...it sucks....how the hell could it ever be reasonable for Paypal to require your "personal" income to be disclosed to them? Sad thing is your probably stuck in a "legal" scam that was very cleverly thought out. I hope your efforts shine some light on the situation...Good Luck....

Originally posted by pikestaff
So paypal is an American business? so Americans wonder why the rest of the world hates America? (well, some of the rest of the world)

That actually isn't true at all. That is propaganda that the socialist MSM would have you believe so that you would start hating your own country, too. If you hate your own country you'll want "change" in the way of socialism. So far it's working on you, it seems.

You're a little rage-nerd, are you?

Do we need multiple posts on this now? You raged already on your initial form which you faxed to paypal and refused to co-operate with them, then you raged calling them..and now you are raging here with multiple threads.

Maybe, some day you'll learn that communication can be the better solution. IMHO; you behaved silly, childish and un-professional and its your own fault your acc. is frozen now.

As i replied in the OTHER thread already, this was likely a random, normal "routine check" about the transaction which is very common IN PARTICULAR with new accounts.

Instead of complying and given them the needed information, proof of address etc. you wrote some silly comment on the faxed form, basically telling them to ***** ****. And now you are complaining and raging.

With a simple phone call or a few emails back and forth you could have resolved all this.

reply to post by tauristercus


Is this theixxxx company going to pay you interest on your money they are holding for 180 days?

is there any way you can use the law to make enquiries to establish weather or not they have earned interest on the money and not passed it on you/ do your research and see if you cant hit back in some way once you have got your money back.

reply to post by flexy123


Why don't you address the issue of what right this company has to ask or have a need to know the OPs annual income? i suppose you always cough up this information to anyone who asks a? Tell me, how much do you earn anyway?

I assume you read the EULA from start to finish before proceeding with the transaction. The EULA likely said you might be required to accurately disclose your income in order for PayPal to comply with certain laws. Yeah, be mad, but be mad at yourself. You caused this to happen by disclosing the wrong information.

I have had zero issues with paypal over the years (don't use it much though). I have not read the EULA. Curious if you have, even after this has happened?

Originally posted by rival

I fail to see why personal income information would be required to make a simple transfer
of funds via this Paypal third party.

OP in his original thread stated that it was some sort of law to prevent money laundering of some sort. Could likely be used to make sure he is paying appropriate taxes, though he is in Australia so I wouldn't know. Flag likely came when a large sum was transferred and compared to his meager annual income.

reply to post by samerulesapply


Wether they are the companys rules, the goverments rules all anyone elses rules. that is is not the issue. The issue here is the fairness, approprriateness of such rules in relation to the matter under consideration or in dispute. How much the OP earns each year is NOT RELEVANT to paypal and none of their busieness in relation to this issue.

I like these people who say the law is the law. If a company or a government passed a law that said you have have to agree to supplying one of your kids for sex with the CEO each time you withdrew money from your bank I assume you would comply because according your own ideas, the law is the law is'ent it?

reply to post by learnatic


I did point out that it was unfair and handled in a poor manner by paypal...they shouldn't have allowed any transaction to take place at all or let him have his money before suspending his account.

I never said anything about anyone making up any laws, paypal are well within their rights to ask what they want...you don't HAVE to give it to them, thus - they have the right to refuse to do business with you or take action of some kind...why is this so hard for people to understand these days? Anyone can refuse to do business with you if you fail to disclose whatever information they ask for, I'm sure there are laws which stipulate what can and can't be asked...sure, but I don't think they're acting illegally by asking your annual income, they probably don't need that information or maybe they do...who even cares, iwhat can they possibly do with it?. He probably told them much more sensitive information than that in the sign up process...I don't get it.

To be honest I think the OP might have some anger issues as has been pointed out, I mean here's a guy who wants to sell something on ebay and finds a buyer...the buyer doesn't want to pay direct - which is fair enough...so if the OP didn't want to use paypal then he shouldn't have.

It seems to me that instead of making the choice not to usepaypal he signed up and was probably angry that he hazd to do so, and because the process wasn't going quick enough and they wanted more information out of him he got angrier and wrote an immature comment on a form, I mean come on.

To add...comparing a company asking you for you annual income to a CEO demaning sex with my kid (I don't have any...) is actually quite insane and rather disturbing...I'd also like to point out that one is illegal and morally repugnant act, the other isn't - so it was an irrelevant, disgusting point...what a repugnant thing to say.

Thanks.

Looks like because you opened a new account and couldn't or wouldn't disclose your income that PayPal decided to freeze the new account probably to make sure the deal was good. You always get in trouble when you have more than one account because they become agitated that you might be a hacker using information you stole to do transactions, which, if you were then the other "real" you could sue them. So they are just watching their asses. I'd keep patiently writing them until you received word from someone who is working on resolving the case. Make out like you are the poor victim and you don't understand what is happening. They should resolve it soon.

Originally posted by croweboy

Originally posted by rival

I fail to see why personal income information would be required to make a simple transfer
of funds via this Paypal third party.

OP in his original thread stated that it was some sort of law to prevent money laundering of some sort. Could likely be used to make sure he is paying appropriate taxes, though he is in Australia so I wouldn't know. Flag likely came when a large sum was transferred and compared to his meager annual income.

£300 dollars is not "large"- regardless of income, considering this is to do with sale of goods. This is not a business and, in all likelihood, the OP bought the item for less than he sold it, as is the case with erm the sale of most second hand goods.


So paypal are an arm of the tax collectors, God help us all...........