Left, Right, Left, Right: Muscular Bonding and the Hive Trigger

PROJECTS DOWN THE DRAIN!

reply to post by NorthKorea


Mr. Il?

Is that you?

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

Most things incorporated in Nazi Germany was from the Romans, and most things incorporated by the Romans was from the Greeks and the greeks well the chain just goes on and on, and a great lot of those things pertain to war. In those times it was beneficial to be ants when the times called for it. Today however, not so much.

It is never beneficial to be an ant, unless you're the queen.

That aside, the Romans consumed the Greeks, and were subsequently consumed, the Nazis didn't incorporate, they attempted to emulate and that was of classical culture in general, not just the Romans, but Greeks too. The Nazis were the ultimate syncretists, had they not been in such a hurry, or been so hurried, they might have succeeded too. What was discussed on the Eleusian thread, the hero of a thousand faces, is integral to the Nazi ideology and the deep psychological understanding that some of the Nazi intellectuals understood about creating a 'storyline' was what made the Nazis so incredibly successful at achieving popular support, but that could not be achieved without first achieving sameness. And that is important to understand because it also required the creation of a common enemy. The thing about the social human, something you and I know nothing about, being essentially loners, is that in order to unite, they need something or someone to look down upon. It is because they are unformed, and need that base of reference to see what is 'right'.

Originally posted by SibylofErythrae
An old saying for how to teach skills:

"I do it once fast. I do it once slow. You do it with me, then off you go."

(there is a great John Cleese video on training that has him using this phrase. I'll link if I ever find it.)

Excellent point. I am primarily a kinetic learner, being a very practical person by nature, and a doer, I only ever learn or input information, once I have put it into practice. Instruction booklets, manuals and the such are a foreign language to me unless I physically, in some way, apply that information, even if that is just note-taking. I seldom refer to my notes, but I have to make them or it just doesn't stick.

reply to post by Biliverdin


What you said about needing, actually not even needing. But requiring a common enemy is to true, I really don't think there is one instance no matter the place or the time were that was not true. Or now a days its the "scapegoat" more so then the evil common enemy, though we even had a few of those, and there never seems to be no end to that constant stream of supply of boogieman. You ever wonder what happened to that whole Obama Bin Laden thing, I bet you most do not and never will. Or how about any of the new boogieman or evil doers out there. And you can go back and see that the whole thing is steeped in ritual and practice even back into the stone age no doubt were they were probably sacrificing rabbits and chickens to some god for tribal purpose.

And what has all the new boogieman and scapegoats accomplished but, if not the same things that it has then, only now more on a more global scale.

In some ways we did not abandon our practices and rituals, most especially scapegoating, and its been ingrained into our life's in pretty much anything. Just look at religion, even in the old testament god required sacrifice, mostly the "sheep" kind. And even other gods like Moloch and others required human sacrifice, and in a way if you think about it. What was Jesus but a continuation of that practice and ritual, Jesus was a scapegoat for the sins of all who believe in him or a born again, which again in many ways its another form of scapegoating, so what does that make organized religion?

To me absolution of sins, sounds much like absolution of responsibilities, and that is what that whole needing a common enemy or someone to look down on is about, a way to forge chains on the minds and the ingrained habits and instincts of peoples, and absolve them of responsibility and installing in its place orders. And I am sure your familiar with the most common quote of the German soldiers of WW2. That is "we just followed orders" which is again nothing new and more absolution or sacrificing common sense for group indoctrination, for the safety of the group, to make them feel whole within the fold or the hive.

Trading individuality for safety in numbers, the very first instinct of all animals insects and anything that walks, swims, and flies this earth. A common trait of all living things, other then flight or flee. You have fight, flee, or take refuge in the fold of the herd. Again playing on the most old of instincts, so ingrained into our life's that its just natural.

But the whole scapegoating or needing someone to look down on, In the end it is a form of old blood magic, every civilization has had a bit of this although with different rules and different requirements, and you can see it today. Even it is a sort of muscular bonding by way of rituals and also a hive trigger as it even to this day gets people to move in certain pasterns and ways without even thinking about it like a herd, like a hive, of one mind, sometimes it literally is witch trials and nobody wants to question the status Que, because as soon as you question or challenge the status Que, you steep outside one of the boundaries of the herd/hive.

A scary thought for some it seems, but its a pretty reasonable fear I suppose.

And like I said before on this thread, what for? and why? And more importantly why should I care? The whole left, right, left, right muscular bonding like E23 said is nothing new, nor is it something special, nor some mystical magical power. Its as natural as breathing, and people forget that. The funny thing is that things have more oft then then not ended up worse for those who sought the safety of the herd, then for those who didn't since for some strange reasons things seem to escalate or end at end cliffs were they proceed to jump of off.

Whats that saying.

"Yours is not to wonder why, yours is but to do and die"

Or here the poem by Alfred Lord Tennyson.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

ChargeoftheLightBrigade

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


There is absolutely nothing that you have said that I disagree with, and certainly nothing that I can argue with. What is that other saying though, about he who lays down his life for others? There is a lot to be said about that mentality too. Either way, I think that we, humans in general, messed up somewhere along the way, big time. I am not sure if there is any going back from that, too many of us want someone to tell us what to do, how to feel and how to think. And there lies a fundamental problem. Why did we evolve the capacity for independent thought if it was not beneficial to us, and our survival?

I really lost my temper with Christianity, in general, and with Christ as a teacher specifically over the whole Mary Magdalene issue, it really got my back up, but through studying her more closely I have found that I am returning to it, or rather to him and his teachings. Not the canon, not the doctrine but the core teachings, that which lies at the heart of all the decorative nonsense, ritual and pomp. In that sense it is very much in line with all those teachers of the Eastern tradition. I mention this because at it's core is the singularity of self, of finding your own balance and inner equality, and ignoring the herd. When we choose to absolve ourselves from responsibility and follow orders that we know are wrong, we do ourselves harm, and what harms the individual, psychologically, has as much of an outward resonance as healing ourselves does. You can't just buy a ticket, sign on the dotted line and expect entry, you have to do the work on yourself, or you will be stuck in the never ending cycle. Most of us, faced with that 'fight or flight' reaction, are able to engage the full capacity of our brains and beings and rationalise or reason our passage through the problem, but most choose not to. They look left and right for someone else to fill in the details and tell them what to do, or they scarper or maim like base beasts. All conflict is avoidable. Inner and outer.

Those soldiers who follow orders, when they know that they are doing wrong, are not only causing harm to others but doing harm to their own psyche. Do you know, that not one member of the Einsatzgruppen or Waffen-SS was ever punished for refusing an order to murder innocent civilians? Not one. It was voluntary duty. The instance of alcoholism, and mental breakdown related to those duties was such that special treatment centres were set up at the behest of Himmler to cope with the deluge of broken men who knew what they were doing was wrong. We see this pattern continuing. If someone is fighting for right, why do they need psychological support once they leave that situation? Someone who has fought an attacker, saved an innocent life, or defended their own life, or their family's life, may need counselling to come to terms with that act and PTSD, but they don't damage their being. Only someone who knows what they did was wrong, and still did it, requires that. You can be externally absolved, but on the internal scale, you need to seek redemption before peace will ever find you again.

And this works at the other end of the spectrum too, doing good, because you are told to. Same difference, it may gain you acceptance, but inwardly, it has no meaning and is of no benefit.

reply to post by Biliverdin


Ah! I see you have been thinking on this a whole lot biliverdin, as your really knowledgeable on it.

But ya, cant argue with what you said.