Mystery Of F-22 Illnesses Grows

Maybe the people who manufactured the plane purposely allowed a contaminate on plane to be transported to the US and take out the military. That's what you get when you rely on other countries to build your product. You assume it's safe, when in fact it's not and it might a death trap. Therefore your enemy just got the best of you.

Perhaps the pilots (most off which come from alaska too i believe,) are starting the jets canopy open in the hangar.....?
This may be the same problem for both pilots and ground crew then, and the exhaust gasses are sucking back through the air intakes or cooling for the cockpit.....the pilots take off, and right away the trapped exhaust gasses get used up before the fresh stuff comes through the pipes.....just as the G crew are sitting canopy open and sucking up too lean exhaust filled air.....then feeling woozy....no doubt they would....
How many jets get started in the same hangar in a shift also?
the problem may be worse as the shift goes on so theat the later planes and crews and pilots get very stale air to breathe in the hangar at best of times....

reply to post by zorgon


I was going to suggest the breathing system used by the pilots but if the ground crews are getting sick as well then that is unusual!?

Could it be related to the engines in the F-22's and the amount of oxygen they are burning (the engine/turbine system) in the surrounding area both on the ground at low power and in the air?

Perhaps there is a combined issue of the breathing system and oxygen intakes coupled with the engines burning or using up too much oxygen?? They are a very high powered and high performing jet engine system.

This report goes all the way back to December last year -

Stripes.com

Fatal problems plague the costly F-22 Raptor fighter jet

Even before the fatal Alaska crash, there were numerous complaints from pilots that the jet’s oxygen systems weren’t feeding them enough air — which caused wooziness in flight. Because of this, the entire fleet of F-22s was grounded for nearly five months beginning in May. But even after the grounding was lifted, investigators still had no answers as to why the malfunctions occurred.


Previous oxygen systems in fighter jets used a separate bottle that fed air to pilots. In an F-22, the air intake system uses air from the jet engine’s compressor section to supply oxygen for pilots.


Full Article

Pratt and Whitney F119 Engines

PW Site

Another advantage of the bypass air is that it greatly adds to the oxygen content in the jet pipe, which provides a distinct advantage over a basic turbojet: when the afterburner (or augmeter) is introduced, the fuel has a lot more oxygen to mix with which means that the afterburner can provide an even more substantial thrust boost.

All that money and they still can't get it right

The F-22 Raptor is hands down the baddest jet on the planet. While it does have this oxygen mishap taking place let's get some facts straight. The Raptor was built in AMERICA. Not China. Marietta, Georgia to be exact. I'm guessing it could be issues with the paint on the aircraft causing issues with the breathing. Overexposure to it surely is not a good thing. Also these pilots are not used to flying 60,000 ft in the sky, that could be another reason, but the fact that the mechanics are getting sick as well leads me to believe it's the paint or something with the fumes.

reply to post by Manhater


Lockheed Martin built the Raptor 22

I don't want to drift to much off-topic but this does relate to the F-22.

I am interested in why the US did not export the raptor to any of it's allies?

In the intital planning, development and building phase Australia bid for the F-22 and we budgeted for a small amount of them as it seemed we would have been able to purchase them, but then going right back to 2007 the US defence dept suddenly decided not to export this jet to any other country (Allies)... why??

Instead we were left only to buy the F-35 which in my opinion is like a cheaper and lower tech budget version of the F-22...

Although going by the safety issues, maybe it isnt such a bad thing but in time those bugs will be fixed, the technology on the F-22 is amazing so far.

The F-35...

reply to post by Irish614


What makes you think it would be the paint causing issues?

Dry paint right?

hypoxia-like symptoms

Which is oxygen deficiency, that is different to chemical or toxic poisoning.

reply to post by Irish614


Ok I am really sorry but I have to add to your comments and I'm sorry as it is going to seem critical -

let's get some facts straight.

Yes lets do that

Also these pilots are not used to flying 60,000 ft in the sky, that could be another reason

There is a reason the cockpit is pressurised and has a dedicated oxygen supply in all high altitude and high velocity jets or planes...

The fact that the mechanics are getting sick as well leads me to believe it's the paint or something with the fumes.

There may have been paint fume issues when the paint was first applied to the jets, which is why the people in production wear mask's or respirators to protect themselves. After the paint dries this is no longer an issue though....

The problems are in the oxygen supply, intake and consumption systems used in the F-22.

It is within my understanding that the F-22's armament comes equipped with hyper-sonic mini gun that chambers depleted Uranium shells.

Radiation poisoning is most likely the cause of this illness.

People handling armament may also be prone to radiation poisoning.

Maybe its something they put in the fuel,and the 5 jets in question are test subjects.
Just a thought .A new way to contaminate the air we breath.

reply to post by Pepeluacho




They can be armed with those rounds but so can many other fighter jets, heavy vehicles and heavy mounted weapons...

They are not loaded as standard rounds.

However the rounds are more toxic after being fired whether it be the discharged round itself or the dust coming off the fired round.

In an enclosed cockpit the dust would not be an issue and the rounds are fired at such high velocity that the pilot would not be at risk. The same goes for an military personnel using these rounds.

It is the recipients that are at risk in danger.

reply to post by Havick007


Whenever you are working in close proximity of depleted uranium or any radioactive substance, it is not unlikely to exhibit signs of radiation sickness.


Please wiki Radiation to further understand the risks involved with radioactive substances.

Also, do not forget to learn about the preventative measures that must be taken in order to block radiation.

I highly doubt those associated with the aircraft handling and functioning are not taking the necessary precautions.

reply to post by Pepeluacho


I understand radiation poisoning and how it works.

I am talking about how the shells are housed/stored until they are actually fired from the weapon.

reply to post by Havick007


There! You just called it!

There must be a problem with the housing/storage of these munitions.

The loading of these munitions onto the aircraft may explain the sicknesses among the associated flight crew.

reply to post by Pepeluacho


This has nothing to do with radiation sickness.

It's unrelated...

When I talked about the housing and storage, I meant they they are there to protect the operator. I wasn't being critical of how the munitions are stored.

reply to post by Pepeluacho


Stand around a high velocity turbine even at low throttle on the ground, during maintainance or pre-flight checks and tell me if you feel a lack of oxygen breathing issues.

A little experiment for you to try at home, although I am sure you have already done this once in your life. Stick your head out the car window (when someone else is driving of course ) going say 80mph.... try breathing normally??

It's a similar princible to working in proximity to a turbine jet engine. It's not so much about Oxygen quantity but more about air pressure.

Especially given the F-22 uses a different system to previous fighter verison and uses a higher flow oxygen intake system.

It’s also our opinion that it’s unacceptable that neither the U.S. Air Force nor any of the F-22′s manufacturer’s can give a definitive answer on both the root cause of the oxygen system failure (bleed air intake system malfunction?) Source: DefenseReview.com (s.tt...)

 

Another advantage of the bypass air is that it greatly adds to the oxygen content in the jet pipe, which provides a distinct advantage over a basic turbojet.

Pratt and Whitney Engine Specs/Info

So it has a higher oxygen intake system than previous jets.

They may get used to working in those conditions but over time and for pro-longed exposure it could lead to Hypoxia or related symptoms.

Hypoxia (medical) Wiki

Hypoxia, or hypoxiation, is a pathological condition in which the body as a whole (generalized hypoxia) or a region of the body (tissue hypoxia) is deprived of adequate oxygen supply

It is possible to experience hypoxia and have a low oxygen content (e.g., due to anemia) but maintain high oxygen partial pressure (pO2). Incorrect use of these terms can easily lead to confusion, especially as hypoxemia is among the causes of hypoxia (in hypoxemic hypoxia)

Hey ATS, I have a question on this. Given the site we're on, perhaps it isn't so far out of line to ask and someone might just have an answer.

Years ago when everyone first heard about the F-22 development program, I recall hearing rumors that this plane had extreme altitude capabilities and other real classified type aspects about what it could actually do. Could there be any truth to any of that? Could the physical aspects of flying in new ways be causing any of it? I realize it's out there a ways... but so is the entire cost of the program to build that plane. I feel like it's understandable when looking at a B-2 bomber. It's a plane that shouldn't even be aerodynamically possible. Computers are such a wonder. lol.... The Raptors though?

Oh well. Can anyone put those rumors to rest with personal knowledge of the aircraft though?

reply to post by redoubt


It was announced this week in the newspaper that F35s in Canada were also having the same problems...

reply to post by NowanKenubi


I haven't heard any problems as yet although we are still waiting for ours in Australia lol... talk about slow!!!

Although I'm not sure if the version we are getting is the same as the current version in Canada -

The JSF, the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, is being developed as a fifth-generation, stealthy, multi-role fighter for the US and UK armed forces and allies.

Joining the international JSF program enables Australia to access capability and technology a generation ahead of other contemporary aircraft.

It is very unlikely that Australia will purchase the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, as proposed by some commentators. The F-22 Raptor cannot perform the strike or close air support roles planned for the JSF

Source: RAF - Defence Australia

I have read that Australian fighter pilots had concerns about problems with the Raptor going back a few years, even in test flights and US/Au cross flights. We were never going to get them as the US didnt want to export them to any country at all even though we did bid and plan for them in the beginning stages.




Edit;

Either way they are both awesome aircraft I am drooling lol I love my gadgets and tech!!




Although I just realised my love for "toys" is making me a hypocrite

I always go on about having no need for war and waaay too much defence spending and now here I am drooling over a fighter jet.... it's hopeless

im going to take a guess here:

The heat isnt taken from the stealth engine properly and some of the surfaces with the radar reflective paint (and other types of layers of stuff) are letting out gases that are causing the apparent oxygen deficiency

Somthing like that im betting, keeping everything on the inside of a fast jet is trick business!