Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual

All those people you're trying to convince- Hmmm, where do I even start here?? Ok... None of this even matters, because if you have to try to convince someone to stop hating someone, then they have completely missed the message. So, you may get them to stop hating gays, which is good, but what you should be "preaching" to them is that hating someone is not right to begin with. So, in essence, the people you are addressing are not Christians. Real Christians are such a small group, you'd have a hard time addressing them as a group. They aren't shouting things at the top of their lungs and pissing everybody off. In fact the Bible even says that the true followers will be a minority in their own church. A "remnant". So that should tell everyone that the majority of "so called" Christians are the most wrong. It's like me being a drunk, a gambler, etc and calling myself a Muslim. I can call myself one as much as I want. And if enough people do it, people will be complaining about "those drunken gamblers, the Muslims", when alcohol and gambling is forbidden in Islam. The real Muslims would say "hey wait a minute... these people are not Muslims!" Just like real Muslims today say about the terrorist factions. Just like real Christians say about Homophobes. Maybe its a sin, maybe not. It's not for me or any of us to say. But the Old Testemant has a lot of strange laws. Apparently if you believe the part that says Homosexuality is a sin, then you also have to believe in the laws pertaining to owning slaves, etc. Most Christians accept the New Testemant as a new agreement between man and God, and the Old Testemant as a history of our older, Jewish roots. We don't follow the stuff in the Old Testemant so much. The message from Christ found in the New Tesemant is what we focus on. And there is no homophobia in his message! It's a message of acceptance and love for all! Maybe back in the old testemant days, when the human population was MUCH smaller, there was a good reason for those laws against homosexuality. Now, though, it would probably be a good thing for our planet! I don't know, its not for me to decide. What I do know is that it is not a worthwhile task to bring yourself to hate anyone! Even if "the devil" came before me, rather than tell him to "go sit on a tac", I would see if he needed a hug!

reply to post by SaturnFX

Its simply associated with being anti-homosexual, or the club for homophobes.

We have an irrational terrifying fear of gay people?

Muslims are against homosexual sex also, so let me see if I got this correct. Christians and Muslims are the same thing, just religions invented to "hate" on gay folks right?

reply to post by SaturnFX

I would tend to agree with your assessment, considering it is thought that document #40266 I believe, of the Dead Sea Scrolls, is thought to be a record of Paul's excommunication from the church. I haven't had a chance to look into it further yet to see if the claim is legit, but I've read it in a few places.

Nevertheless, fundamentalist christians see Paul as being one of those Jesus was speaking of in the following verse.
Matthew 23:34

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

So to them, He's part of the word of God.

reply to post by Klassified


Excommunication? Paul was martyred during the reign of Nero about the same time Peter was killed.

reply to post by SaturnFX


This will be the last correspondence to you from me since you do not believe in respecting others.

In post by SaturnFX, you said

Yes, any group that tries to figure out what people are thinking is clearly working for the devil.

but I wasn't referring to just any group. I was referring to The Barna Group, a group that specifically targets Christians for their research. The fact that they specifically target Christians and not just random people, as you have implied, makes all the difference. If you look into whom they take these jobs, of studying Christians, from, you will see their customers aren't Christian organizations.

Since we know they're not working for the betterment of Christians it leaves their purpose open to interpretation. Thus, the remark about their work to further weaken Christianity.

You then said

Any godly group would completely ignore what 90% of young adults are seeing...after all, as we know, knowledge is anti-god..what with the tree and stuff...therefore knowing how your being percieved is clearly evil....best to keep doing what your doing and...wait...why is the church completely empty? hmm..maybe everyone got raptured...

and I'm wondering where you get off saying garbage like this? Mocking peoples religion is very rude. You should find a hobby that doesn't require you to berate others in order to make you feel good about yourself.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Klassified

 

Excommunication? Paul was martyred during the reign of Nero about the same time Peter was killed.

You and I know that from our studies. That's why I'm interested in checking out the facts behind this fragment.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


According to whom?

I'm fairly certain you don't know that for a fact. It's not like you actually saw it happen.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

According to whom?

I'm fairly certain you don't know that for a fact. It's not like you actually saw it happen.

Did you see Alexander the Great conquer any nations, huh did you??

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

This will be the last correspondence to you from me since you do not believe in respecting others.

In post by SaturnFX, you said

Yes, any group that tries to figure out what people are thinking is clearly working for the devil.

but I wasn't referring to just any group. I was referring to The Barna Group, a group that specifically targets Christians for their research. The fact that they specifically target Christians and not just random people, as you have implied, makes all the difference. If you look into whom they take these jobs, of studying Christians, from, you will see their customers aren't Christian organizations.

Since we know they're not working for the betterment of Christians it leaves their purpose open to interpretation. Thus, the remark about their work to further weaken Christianity.

Wait, what?
So, because they reported something you didn't like, that makes them not working for the betterment of christianity?
really?

The Barna Group is an evangelical Christian polling firm based in Ventura, California

You know what quality assurance is?
Lets say you work for pizza hut. You go and ask people what they think of pizza hut..people say whatever...crappy overpriced pizza
you then report back what was said.
Does that mean your actively trying to belittle or break pizza hut..for doing your job
or does that mean your trying to get a real understanding of what people think of your product and service

What is better, to ignore what people say and think, or to open it up and see what people are saying...with a possibility that you might be able to address and correct this image/product

or, are you saying this group is anti-christian because they are not deceptive and try to cover up and hide their findings well enough?

Not christian because they aren't good enough liars?

Mocking peoples religion is very rude. You should find a hobby that doesn't require you to berate others in order to make you feel good about yourself.

Naa, Mocking people is rude. mocking religion is a good hobby. and mocking mindsets ready to defend religion at the sacrifice of reason is certainly a good hobby.

Yes...blast this Barna group and their...being honest about their findings...how unchristian of them

reply to post by 3n19m470

It's sad that Christianity and gay people have to be politicized so strongly, and I hope it's just the US elections bringing the culture wars to a temporarily heated level, because recently I've actually enjoyed discussions with some Christian members.
We can get along fine as people, and examine a topic, and I don't need their approval to be happy, and they don't need mine.
I wouldn't call myself a Christian, although the Bible is still very important to me, but many gay people do regard themselves as Christians.

I think the issue nowadays for everyone is too few rights, or just the occasional bone from power, and we all think that somebody is out to get us and our rights.That feeling seems to be deliberately heightened by power, with assumptions that Christians will make us all live in an Old Testament dictatorship, or fears that homosexuality is really a system that's out to turn all the kids gay.
Meanwhile there are significant problems in religion, there are doubtlessly problems in gay minority communities, and there are huge problems in social transitions in gender power and all kinds of global competition and shifting populations.
It's really a time of spectacular transition, where the world left to people's grandchildren may look very different from the contemporary one.
So to an extent it's also a time of hyper-awareness of changing certain things, and in that there are politically tendentious and over-blown reactions to things that shouldn't be such significant diversions at all.

What's scary from my gay position is that everything about being gay is generalized, to the point where being gay and being Christian are two mutually exclusive polar opposites.
So one gets the feeling that individuals can be "known" by propaganda with generalizations like:
- all gays are ridiculously more promiscuous that heterosexuals, often with statistics dating back to the hippies, and even back then they weren't accurate www.jeramyt.org...
- Biblical bedroom politics about literally laying in certain positions, and what that meant from a time of polygamy, concubinage, rape and wife-borrowing; God-ordained heterosexual activities that would count as "fornication" today
- the idea that all gays are actively pro-same-sex marriage - few would be actively against it, but some would be indifferent, viewing monogamous marriage as a recent confine that didn't even work for heterosexuals

Yet, if one hears some electioneering conservatives, then they are more concerned about a "redefinition" of heterosexual marriage, rather than keeping gays from partnerships.
So there is an admitted crisis in heterosexuality and the patriarchal way it was organized, which lumps a whole bunch of fears onto gay people.

It's a dangerous tit-for-tat escalation to the advantage of politicians.
I would never like to see Christians bullied or treated badly just because they don't agree with me.
I agree with the OP that a fringe of very visible and vocal Christians have blundered badly in the culture wars, and their discourse comparing the US to ancient Israel is very frightening and cult-like.
However I'm not sure whether it's good for gay people to be treated as a kind of football to attack or deconstruct religion.
Clearly there's a lot of other issues behind such sentiments.
I'm glad if people are pro-gay equality, but I'd hate to see some of the more fruitful discussion I've had with Christians disintegrate just because we are constantly thrown in their faces.
It also doesn't make things any easier for gay Christians, or Christians (or other faiths) who want to live their faith without being actively gay.

There's a certain irony to it all, because there's hardly been a fascist/Marxist system of totalitarianism that didn't attack both the recognizable gays and the recognizable Christians.

Christianity can be many things, and has been many things: it has been anti-Semitic, misogynistic, colonial, pro-apartheid and Islamophobic, to name a few.
Yet many of those things are in the past (but not all, or always, and there were always some Christians who suffered for social justice), but we certainly wouldn't immediately say that anti-Semitic readings still apply clearly today.
So the question is why this specific reading is so pushed by politicians today, and why people are so eager to engage it.
Clearly there have also been mean-spirited gay people in history too, although the historical closet makes that more obscure.

So, just to reiterate what I see as a crucial point: many of the Christian speakers from the US I see on TV speak less on gay marriage than they do about a crisis in heterosexual marriage, or the dangers of "redefining marriage".
But is that really a gay issue, or an issue that gay people as such could solve for a vast majority?
Are there underlying fears, and what are they?

It's a heated debate once again on this thread, but when people are seen as generalizations and stereotypes like in some posts here, I do hope that behind the points one can still see individuals with complexities, fears and hopes.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Let me ask you why in the past 50-100 years has their been a war on Judaism and Christianity? To usher in the anti-christ who advocates, mass immorality, homosexuality, murder etc. How is the anti-christ going to rule the world without making people believe that homosexuality is acceptable?

Why mention homosexuality and murder in the same sentence?? One implies a 'natural' attraction to a person of the same sex, while the other entails violence/killing of another....

So the anti-Christ can't rule the world without making people believe it's acceptable? Your post is full of fail.

why is it that so many 'straights' spend so much time quoting anti-homosexual verses,

if it does not apply to them?

i mean, if they are heterosexual, why then are they not studying and quoting parts of the bible relevant to their straight, normal path, such as quotes about fornicating, spilling seed, etc?

it would make sense the gays would be quoting the homosexual-relevant passages of the bible - perhaps that's what priests/clergy are doing? lol but what about self proclaimed straight Christians?

something does not add up! - straights dwelling on homo relevant passages rather than hetero relevant passages!

reply to post by GmoS719


there's no such thing as sin

Originally posted by sam_inc
reply to post by GmoS719

 

there's no such thing as sin

And the thief says there is no such thing as theft.

reply to post by Raelsatu

One implies a 'natural' attraction to a person of the same sex

What's 'natural' about that specifically? Homosexuals cannot reproduce. That goes completely against 'nature'.

human nature is to reproduce?

oh yeah, so is using condoms and according to the Bible, "pulling out".

no wonder thousands of unwanted kids are killed or left to die of starvation, every day - that's natural!

reply to post by SaturnFX


"Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual"

Your statement is an absolute. There are no qualifiers. No "most", or "a lot of". It's complete within itself. Christianity as a whole, not in part, is anti-homosexual.

You sure you want to stick with that blanket statement?

/TOA

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Raelsatu

 

One implies a 'natural' attraction to a person of the same sex

What's 'natural' about that specifically? Homosexuals cannot reproduce. That goes completely against 'nature'.

edit on 15-5-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Yes, they can reproduce. Some of them choose not to. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean that their biological processes cease to function.

/TOA

The problem with Christianity and all of the Judaic religions is not that it is antigay, rather it is full of hypocrisy. And that is what is the base line problem in a nutshell.
From simple observations, too many times, what the actions do, and the passages used to justify the actions are only from one small part, failing to take into account the bigger picture. Too many times, the message does not equal out.

Take the anti-homosexual stance that many of the Judaic beliefs take, and in particular Christians. They tend to pick and choose from what is written, using such to justify their belief that they are right and gay people are an abomination on humanity. They, and others like them, miss the message and ultimately use religion as a weapon to get their point across, to be exclusive in their point of view, a very dangerous mind set. It is a curious thing to state that a serial killer, who repents on death row, is welcomed into heaven, while a gay man who has done nothing wrong will never be welcome. And many people see this.

The other problem is the lack of mystery and spirituality in the different religions and beliefs. Gone are the days when the wonder and splendor, the sheer mystery, and many people feel that lose. Gone are the days when the explanation that God was behind the reasons and events. But that is the trade off for the modern miracles of the world. It was best stated in the movie, Inherit the Wind:
Progress has never been a bargain. You have to pay for it.
Sometimes I think there's a man who sits behind a counter and says, "All right, you can have a telephone but you lose privacy and the charm of distance.
Madam, you may vote but at a price. You lose the right to retreat behind the powder puff or your petticoat.
Mister, you may conquer the air but the birds will lose their wonder and the clouds will smell of gasoline.

The other is from Ghandi: I like your Christ, but do not like your Christians.

For there to be a movement back to the faith, there has to be a new way to look at the teachings, and lessons in the bible, people need to stop using such as a weapon against one another, and start to use it the way it was suppose to be, a means to show them how to live, and to ultimately follow the one message that seems to be looked over: Be nice to one another.

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Raelsatu

 

One implies a 'natural' attraction to a person of the same sex

What's 'natural' about that specifically? Homosexuals cannot reproduce. That goes completely against 'nature'.

Yes, they can reproduce. Some of them choose not to. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean that their biological processes cease to function.

/TOA

The person I quoted said attraction to the same sex was "natural". Context.

/facepalm