Hi, i really really need help identifying an old statue head

how about the local college, teachers for classes on archeology or some related field that could look at it for you...

This is a stone head of King Pacal. The nose, ears and forehead are classic indicators.
It is Mayan...probably from Palenque Mexico.
I can't tell from the photo if it is original...or a later copy for tourist trade.
If original, it would be about 1400-1200 years old.

Here is one in pristine condition; your's, while it still seems to have some of it's original paint, is unfortunately in very poor condition...probably due to exposure to the elements.

gtreaster.homestead.com...
The piece in the enclosed photo would have once been painted as well.

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reply to post by research100


Haha local collage with arceology classes. Did i tell you i live in Sweden. A country with aprox 9 million people in total. I live in à town with 30,000 people. At the local schools here, welding is the most cultural education there is.
/Jimmy

reply to post by IAMTAT


Hi there.
Thanks for looking at it. But i believe more on the greco buddhist devata from Afghanistan or Pakistan.
Partly because lots of other artifacts that comes from the same place as the head was marked with Afghanistan.
And partly because of the very close resemblance to other devata heads from that area.

The Pacal has a nose that stretches far up on the forehead wich my head dont. And pacal is depicted with straight hair, my head with wavy hair.
Thanks again, i really apreciate it
/Jimmy

I cannot definitively say, but the "look" of it is similar to heads from Mexico, extending into Central and South America. Maybe Mayan, or similar geographical group. Not Aztec though, lol. Definitely not European...At least not in the face, although the artisan could have been European. It may be old, but my guess just from the picture is that this is a recreation from a later period.

I am not so sure it is Maya in origin. This image is poor quality (been in my wallet for about 40 years now and the actual statue is in storage but it is Maya in origin and of a death mask. If it was Maya it would have a snake on its head ( all the books show this one feature) while this particular statue has both a snake and a frog. The ears are slit (blood-letting ceremonies) but the nose for the most part seem the same as yours.

Mine is made of onyx ( I think) and we took it to the Royal Ontario museum first (who wouldn't comment unless we donated it) but like us you might try a university that has a professor who actually goes out on digs. We saw the pics in his books of the snake but having the frog as well made this one unique...




edit: I forgot to mention this bust is about a 10 inches in height, 5 - 6 inches wide, maybe 4 inches in thickness

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Hello again
Well here it is. The head is bought on a fleamarket in Sweden where i live.
The owner of the fleamarket Said he had bought up a dead couples house with lots n lots of stuff inside.
Things from all over the world, but most of the things was marked with Afghanistan by the couple.

When compairing My head with devata heads from Afghanistan and pakistan i find lots and lots of similarities, in both size, facialfeatures and headdresses.

So My belief is that it is from there. And if it is from there it would be from arond 305-185 bce.
At that time those areas of the world was buddhistic and there buddhistic art was heavily influeced by the greek art of the same time. Since Alexander the Great had conqured most of the world.

If i understand it correctly it is only in this area that the buddhistic art has this influence from the greeks.

The pre colombian art however have fairly similar art BUT compared to My head they all have huge noses, and i have yet to see wavy hair on pre colombian heads.

But as i Said earlyer, i aint closing the book completley yet.
There still is the fact that it probably is old and with old unmarked stuff one can never be sertain.
/jimmy

reply to post by anoncoholic


Hi
Thanks for showing that wonderful picture of an even more wonderful thing.
I am not so sertain it is mayan either. I lean to afghanistan greco buddistic era.
As for the similaritys, the profile sure bears likeness, but the forward shot has a much to wide and flat look to the nose compared to mine.
Thank you for looking and giving input.
/jimmy

reply to post by jisujaaljo


I have better pictures here somewhere. There are actually three statues, a warrior and fertility god were included (I inherited them) and will post them if I can find them over the weekend.

Something I just remembered was the Taliban had destroyed rock carvings but the pictures I found weren't definitive enough to compare to yours. I did see color being used though...
Taliban destroyed

reply to post by anoncoholic


If u go back a page in the thread and look at kanzwelts flicker links you will se more
And yeah please show me more pics. I love this stuff.
/jimmy

reply to post by Kantzveldt


hi there again my good art historian friend
again, i really appreciate you taking your time to help me out.
i owe you.

first we have this wooden animal, with i believe tiger stripes, its two front legs are jointed so that they can move a little bit, and the toung hangs outside of the mouth.
the fact that the legs are jointed and that the toung hangs out, makes me believe it is a childrens toy of some kind.
i bought it on a fleamarket in a town here in sweden called Malmö, this town is known for having many nationalitys residing in it, i do believe that 80 percent of its inhabitants are of forregin origin, that makes it so that this little thing could be from practically anywhere in the world, the place where i bougth it had lots of asian stuff, so there is a good chance of it being asian in its origin.
thats all i got on this one








the next little thing is a lion carved out of slate, i do belive that slate is pretty hard to use as statue material, because its hard and easily broken cause of its layered composition.
it got an hole in its chest and it is broken at its legs, it also got som bright dirt residue in most crevises and scratches, its flat on the backside.
this one is bought at the same place as the other little things youve helped me out with before, and i do believe that it is from the same home even as the previous artifacts, those artifacts where from africa and afghanistan.

now the fact that it is flat on the back makes me think doorknocker,
and thats all i got on that one.







happy hunting, and thank you yet again friend
jimmy

got any smaller pics mate

Definatelo looks Mayan or Aztec by the pronounced nose

www.crystalinks.com...

reply to post by maryhinge


haha, thanks friend for pointing that out. ive sized them down

reply to post by jisujaaljo



The problem in identifying the tiger as i PM'd, is that it is probably a one off, maybe carved around a 100 years or so ago as a gift for a child, without a manufacturer or any greater religious and cultural context to fit it into it's difficult to say who exactly made it and when. Of course sometimes one has provenance with such objects were they have been handed down within a family, but if that is not the case here then like i said, difficult to trace...the type of wood might give some indication were it was made.


The lion does look like some sort of door knocker but i'm not sure slate would be the best material for that, maybe it was more of a wall mounted bell ringing set up to summon the servants, it could have been inside a big house and anything up to a couple of hundred years old.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


thanks mate, now i got some new leads to go on, what kind of wood, and some sort of bell contraption inside a house for servants.
aahh how i love these detective things
hugs/jimmy

Originally posted by dawnprince
To me it looks like a badly eroded molded bust of Queen Victoria.
They were mass produced as ornate garden decorations , during and just after her reign .

DP

I thought exactly the same thing. Probably from years of watching Eastenders and seeing it on the bar.

reply to post by particlezen

thanks for trying to help out mate

Originally posted by jisujaaljo
trying to find out where this head comes from . . .
find out what it is.

Try watering it.
. . . could be one of these :



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I think the statue is Mayan. They were into natural looking effigies.