Who killed the prophet Muhammad? A 1400 year old murder mystery.

Originally posted by Jameela
An entire thread to insult the Holy Prophet (saw) of another religion!

Correction .... An entire thread to ask the question how a person in power, with a violent history of ordering 'hits' on his political opponents, died.

Originally posted by Jameela
So the Holy Prophet (saw) is not going to commit a sin by eating such meat, because the Holy Prophet (saw) is without sin or error.

Excuse me? You think Muhammad .. a thief and admitted murderer ... never sinned?


LONEWOLF .. never thought I'd say this ... star and flag for you from me. You asked a qood question. Scientists should find what's left of the rotted corpse, dig it up, and test it. Let the truth be known .. not myths and fairytales ... but truth.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
reply to post by MeesterB

 

Seriously though we should not discuss anything bad about him because people worship him as a prophet. A prophet like muhammad who went around committing the evils he did was bound to be assassinated by the jewish woman whom "just wanted to see if he was the real deal".

Want to solve this problem? Don't self annoint. Prophets must confirm prophets, unless God shouts down from heaven he/she is a prophet or prophetess.

Kinda ironic that Allah kills by grab grabbing your aorta with his right hand and severing it, then Muhammad was like "Ah...my aorta it's been severed!"

reply to post by Sahabi

If Muslims say, "Allah is the Arab word for the monotheistic God of Abraham and Creator of All," then yeah, Christians and Jews believe in Abraham's God.

But do Christians sincerely acknowledge muslims worship the God of Abraham?
I'd reeeaaallly, really like to hear that from Christians.

Secondly, note that the guy in the OPs video relies on a Koranic statement (about the aorta).... to conclude that Mohammad was a false prophet.... So in order for his argument to be valid, the guy in the video needs to accept that Allah (God in the Koran) is the true God who carried out his warning of "severing the aorta"...as recorded in the Koran...

Funnily, the speaker in the video who relies on Allahs warning in the Koran in this video..... goes on to criticize the Koran in his other videos.
www.answeringmuslims.com... (in the right column)

reply to post by Sahabi

Christians do believe Jesus died on the cross.

Sure they do...but do they also believe that Jesus was a false prophet for the reasons that ...
a) Jesus died a very painful death(like Mohammad)
b) Jesus died at the hands of Jews (like Mohammad) AND some Roman thugs.


???

And are they also willing to consider Jesus words as he was dying on the cross.... "Why have you forsaken me?" to conclude that Jesus was a false prophet and not divine?

I mean, if it was indeed Jesus on the cross....and if Jesus was indeed divine as Christians believe...
how could he not know why he was forsaken? Why did he even think he was being forsaken in the first place, if he knew his role was to die for mankinds sins?

So the guy in the video used Islamic dogma to argue the point; "Allah saved Jesus from a lynch mob of Jews by allowing his ascent to Heaven, but yet Allah allows a Jewish woman to poison Muhammad?"

The guy in the video was basically mocking Mohammad....when he pointed out that Allah saved Jesus, but let Mohammad die of poison.

This silly man needs to realize that according to his christian beliefs, God allowed the Jews and Pagan Romans to torture and crucify Jesus half-naked on a cross.

Is he even christian?

The division between Shia and Sunni goes even deeper than merely who to follow after Mohammed's death.
The Shia sects have a much more esoteric interpretation, whereas the Sunni sects take an extremely exoteric approach. However, although we know very little of the esoteric approach, as much of it went deeply underground after Ali and his descendents were murdered and wiped out as far as was humanly possible. Ali himself was known as a very powerful sorcerer and if we look to Shia sects and what we can glean from them, it is more of a Pythagorean approach. The Al-Jafr and the Mushaf Fatima are, in any case, much more likely to be closer to the original Islam.

It's a shame they're so demonized, isn't it?
Thanks to extreme syncretization, few of us will ever read the real Koran.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Kinda ironic that Allah kills by grab grabbing your aorta with his right hand and severing it, then Muhammad was like "Ah...my aorta it's been severed!"

So what is it...?
You now believe that the Koran is a revelation of God....and that Allah is indeed God.... because the warning of the aorta was fulfilled?
Or do you still believe that the Koran is "garbage"... as you said in another post elsewhere?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Well, that is a fair point to ask. I'd ask the same about why there was a rash of real sharp edged posts about Christianity for awhile here too. It was a passing 'fad' or something because it faded back to the occasional new thread where it was really coming non-stop there for a bit.

Lol. Try everyday man.

I got tired of fighting that war.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Kinda ironic that Allah kills by grab grabbing your aorta with his right hand and severing it, then Muhammad was like "Ah...my aorta it's been severed!"

So what is it...?
You now believe that the Koran is a revelation of God....and that Allah is indeed God.... because the warning of the aorta was fulfilled?
Or do you still believe that the Koran is "garbage"... as you said in another post elsewhere?

Nope, the Quran is still garbage. I just thought i'd make mention that real prophets cannot be killed by accidentally eating something poisoned. They can stand in fire and not be consumed, as did Daniel and his 3 friends.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Nope, the Quran is still garbage.

Well, the video that you posted in OP, had a christian who seemed to take the words of the Koran as the word of God, because of the warning of the aorta. You mean you disagree with him on that?

I just thought i'd make mention that real prophets cannot be killed by accidentally eating something poisoned. They can stand in fire and not be consumed, as did Daniel and his 3 friends.

Jesus died from the torture and crucifixion.
John the Baptist died from decapitation.
Peter was crucified (ok, he's not a prophet, but neither were Daniels companions)
And who knows how all those other prophets that the bible accuses Jews of killing died.

Or is it that true prophets have immunity only against fire.

Originally posted by Sahabi

However, the guy in the OP video was offering an argument in accordance to Islamic belief. Muslims say Jesus never died, but was instead ascended to Heaven.

So the guy in the video used Islamic dogma to argue the point; "Allah saved Jesus from a lynch mob of Jews by allowing his ascent to Heaven, but yet Allah allows a Jewish woman to poison Muhammad?"

First, what does it matter, Prophet Isa (as) is a messiah and will be returning at the end of time... The plan of Allah for Both is a different matter, it does not mean Allah favors Isa (as) more. Was Elijah favored above Nuh(as) or were They two Prophets with different roles?

I've read those Sahih Hadith about the pain in Muhammad's aorta from the poison, but I've never considered these hadith in regards to the Qur'an saying if Muhammad was a forger that his aorta would be severed.

I can't say this is the opinion I stand behind, but it sure is one heck of an ironic coincidence....

First, these 'sahih' ahadith are not sahih. Abu Hurairah was a fabricator of ahadith, he did this for a living. (according to ahadith) Many of these ahadith that are narrated concerning Prophet (saw) being poisoned from a Jewess are narrated through his testimony in these sunni books.



let us see this narration in Mustadarak, vol 3, page 191

3327 – أخبرني أبو بكر محمد بن أحمد المزكي بمرو ثنا عبد الله بن روح المدايني ثنا يزيد بن هارون أنبأ هشام بن حسان عن محمد بن سيرين عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال : قال لي عمر : يا عدو الله و عدو الإسلام خنت مال الله


Narrated Abu Huraira saying: Umar spoke to me saying; O enemy of Allah and Islam! You have done treachery with the property of Allah!

This chain according to the opinion of Hakim and Dhabi is

هذا حديث صحيح بإسناد على شرط الشيخين و لم يخرجاه
تعليق الذهبي قي التلخيص : على شرط البخاري ومسلم

this hadeeth is sahih upon the condtion of Shiekhayn but they did not write it

Dhabi said; sahih on the condition of Bukhari and Muslim

There are many more weaking Abu Huraira's testimony (to say the very least!). We could go through the chains on all these ahadith even in Bukhari and Muslim and find the ahadith narrated on this topic to be daif. You cannot believe every ahadith regardless of what book it is in. You must examine them fully.

These ahadith are simply not acceptable. Neither in content because no Muslim believes that the Holy Prophet (saw) will sin by eating the meat of the Jews, it is haram to do so... Neither in logic because it does not take years to die from poison, neither in chains of narrators. No Matter whose books you look at.

Also, many of the ahadith do not say that Prophet (saw) felt his aorta cut! Some say He felt as if His heart may burst! Leading one to deduce (properly) that He (saw) was describing a feeling of pain.

People wanted to destroy Islam, they fabricated ahadith in an effort to this end, or sometimes to make a living or to eat, this is why we are so very careful to examine in proper context ALL ahadith. We do not remove the words from books because if we are wrong we hid a truth, but neither do we accept them when on more than one level they appear false! Wallahu Aalim.

(This post is not meant to say anything against sunnis and their beliefs)

To Add:
The only thing Muslims believe is protected by Allah from people changing of the words thereof is the Holy Quran. This does not mean we do not accept ahadith because we do, what this does mean is that we are exceedingly careful in the examination of every ahadith, does the content contradict the Quran? Are the narrators known as being truthful? Are there other ahadith from different chains of narrators (without touching the first chain in the other like hadith) that further authenticate the hadith? Does the content of the ahadith contradict other ahadith?

There are many things to take into consideration before saying yes I do believe I can accept this ahadith and incorporate the words thereof into my beliefs. This is why it is called the sciences of hadith. Remember, seeking knowledge is extremely important, and a duty upon Muslim.

I dunno who killed the "prophet" but people have made a "profit" ever since and before with the same action.
Second line reserved for witty remark.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well, when it comes to knowing who ordered the hit. Consult the books in which it is recorded as history. Some say it was a jewess, some say it was Aisha, but the Quran ultimately points at the killer being...Allah himself.

Silly people...

God is the only one who gives life, saves life, or takes life.

It is the vanity of Man that causes them to take credit for the will of the creator.

This has been written, thus it is God's will.

If you disagree, remember, God loves variety.

How many unique stars dot our night time sky?

Even Jesus told Pontius he could not kill him but by the will of God.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Kinda ironic that Allah kills by grab grabbing your aorta with his right hand and severing it, then Muhammad was like "Ah...my aorta it's been severed!"

So what is it...?
You now believe that the Koran is a revelation of God....and that Allah is indeed God.... because the warning of the aorta was fulfilled?
Or do you still believe that the Koran is "garbage"... as you said in another post elsewhere?

Nope, the Quran is still garbage. I just thought i'd make mention that real prophets cannot be killed by accidentally eating something poisoned. They can stand in fire and not be consumed, as did Daniel and his 3 friends.

So is the Bible,,,,

All religions are antiquated, irrelevant and at the same time necessary (for some)

No one needs a book filled with dates, names, stories and parables to live a good life,,,,but if it causes some to do so,,,,,thats beautiful

However screaming "My God,,,MY religion is "the right one" is based on WHAT?

That is highly egotistical,,,which in my opinion is counter productive to ANY religion

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


Seriously, why don't you take your ignorant crap to twitter, instead of bugging us here. I'm sure there's alot of idiots on Twitter that you could identify with. Sorry, but you can't fix stupid. We don't have the technology.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
I thought he ascended to heaven; didnt know he was killed, isnt that why the Muslims revere the Dome of the Rock, where he ascended?

The Dome of the Rock is not Masjid al Aqsa.. two distinctly different buildings, and only Masjid al Aqsa has significance according to the Muslims.

The Prophet Muhammed (saw) was transported from Masjid al Haraam in Mecca, to Bayt al Maqdis (Jerusalem) or Masjid al Aqsa, where Prophet (saw) led in prayer the other Prophets (saw). It was Sulayman who built this masjid and the only one venerated by the Muslims because this is the direction of the first qibla and a place where the Prophet (saw) and the other Prophets (as) prayed.

The Prophet (saw) however, did not die at this time, this was an experience during the life of the Prophet (saw)

The Dome of the Rock is different and it was originally built because the Jews venerated it and the Christians at that time were dumping garbage upon it from their dislike for the Jews. When Umar went there and saw this from respect of all faiths he cleared the trash and made the area nice for all people. In the time of the early Muslims there was no Dome of the Rock however, this was a later addition built by ‘Abd al-Malik ibn Marwaan in 72 AH.

The only real argument for Dome of the Rock being a holy place is that the entire compound has great religious significance to all 3 faiths.But specifically for Muslims it is Masjid al Aqsa which is our holy site on the compound, and that has religious significance to our Prophet (saw) in specific.

reply to post by AManYouALL

Even Jesus told Pontius he could not kill him but by the will of God.

True.
Jesus also begged for help ("let this cup pass from me") before he was arrested, tortured and crucified....

How can Jesus' painful death, which caused him to cry out "why have you forsaken me?", make him a "sin sacrifice"... and Mohammads painful death make him a "false prophet"?

Am I the only one who sees this hypocrisy/double standard in Christian thinking?

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx


Im sorry but how is stating factual truths about a historical figure ignorant?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Originally posted by skOrpiOn
And are they also willing to consider Jesus words as he was dying on the cross.... "Why have you forsaken me?" to conclude that Jesus was a false prophet and not divine?

I mean, if it was indeed Jesus on the cross....and if Jesus was indeed divine as Christians believe...
how could he not know why he was forsaken? Why did he even think he was being forsaken in the first place, if he knew his role was to die for mankinds sins?

Psalm 22: 1-2

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

I’m not sure how much I buy into this, but there is a theory, that Jesus was singing Psalm 22, on the Cross; which although sounds very negative, is actually all about keeping faith in God, through trying times.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


If Jesus was indeed singing psalms 22.....then does it mean....

a) God answered Jesus' prayer to be saved (v21) ....as it says in Psalm 22.
b) God hid His face from the afflicted one (v24) ....as it says in Psalm 22.
c) Did the speaker of Psalms 22 also happen to be the "seed" that "shall serve him". (v30), is he the same as the one who spoke in verse 1???

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
How can Jesus' painful death, which caused him to cry out "why have you forsaken me?", make him a "sin sacrifice"... and Mohammads painful death make him a "false prophet"?

Perhaps your question was rhetorical?

If not, you would have to ask someone who believes this. I do not.