You Westerners Are Deluded

Originally posted by JAY1980
Asia is rising to power i'll give you that. But do we really have any idea where that power is going and how it's distributed. Like you said OP they are tired of "Groveling to America and the EU. Now it's the wests turn to grovel" Last I checked the average Joe in china has far fewer rights than the average Joe in any western nation... So in reality Asia isn't getting a damn thing. Well the people of Asia anyway. So I ask you how is than any better? We are just condensing power down to an even smaller group of people who care even less about human rights.

You talk like the "NWO" only exists in America and the EU. Do you not think it's a global network? How could it not be! America and the EU are the real threat because we still have half a leg to stand on... Rights, freedoms, some times our voice is heard, and gun's lots and lots of gun's. The populas of nations like China and India are left completely exposed when there government decides to take "A new direction". Typically at the peoples expense. Here in America I would prefer to be taxed to death rather than worked to death... Neither if I had a choice...

Well the NWO has always been a "white" conspiracy so to speak that is being driven by white bankers, elitists and so on. I don't know if you've noticed but there aren't that many white people in China or India, those nations aren't in on the "white nwo", but nevertheless they (most likely China) have an agenda of their own.
If you watched the video you will hear the guy say that Belgium has more shares in the IMF than India!!! I mean thats just absurd, this is why Asia wants to create its own financial body because it is "discriminated" against in the IMF.

If you really think the EU and American people are still a threat then why don't you look at where your computer was made, or the chair your sitting on, or the lights in your house, or the food in your cupboard? The East has already economically subdued your people into feeding China instead of America with your hard-earned cash, they don't need guns.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital

OK...Your post is not based on REALITY. This is reality. If today...the United States chose to stop buying products from China and India...and stopped payments on Chinas MASSIVE investment in the United States as if you think about it...China could have invested it's money anywhere in the World but chose to invest by way of Loans to the U.S. as China knows that this is the safest investment it could make....and if the U.S. stopped making payments on these loans and stopped buying product....CHINA WOULD BANKRUPT AND IT'S ECONOMY WOULD COLAPSE.

Now what could China do to the U.S. in the event this happened? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! China's Military is no match against the U.S. Military...the U.S. is Chinas main trading partner by a GREAT MARGIN and the U.S. is the Worlds Number One Consumer Nation. There is no existing alternative to sales of Chinese products and MILLIONS if not more than a BILLION Chinese people would no longer have a job.

The U.S. on the other hand is perfectly capable of producing it's own goods and the things that a Country Really Needs to survive...Food, Water and Energy...the U.S. can either grow in abundance or in the case of Energy...either buy from countries besides China or if really necessary...the U.S. has the Worlds Largest supply of Coal as well as a current project with Canada to utilize Canadian Oil Sands which contain more oil than the Middle East. Plus if really put on the spot...the U.S. could release Secret U.S. Military Research that is now being held back...that is Ultra-High Tech. Energy Generation Tech. in the areas of Solar...Low Temp. Fusion as well as other exotic energy generation tech. that has not been made public due to it's possible Military Apps.

So in one swoop...the U.S. could bring China to it's knees. If you loan money to someone who you have no way to force them to pay it back as well as be dependent on them for your paycheck...YOU ARE NOT IN THE DRIVERS SEAT...THEY ARE! Decline of the United States? No Chance. Split Infinity

I find that those who like to give others reality checks, not to mention "sad reality checks" are the ones who are generally delusional. The East is rising? I've got new for you, my friend. The sun has always risen from the East, and has always set upon the West. All of which has nothing at all to do with anything, just as this thread has nothing at all to do with anything other than contributing to more of the same old delusional divisive crap.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Okay I was thinking in the future not in the past. As you mentioned the empire I am a part of by birth and not choice is on the way out. What comes from the remains will either be freer and more open or crueler and more repressive than the current regime. You seem to want to perpetuate this fraudulent nation-state game with your team on top, so does that really make you personally more enlightened and powerful than us "deluded (though we are) westerners"? If your team takes the lead then there will be just as much oppression and injustice in the world and you are implicitly fine with that, as long as it is coming from a different geopolitical angle that supports your preconceptions.

With that kind of thinking you are just empowering a different clique of oligarchs

And going by the logic that I and my fellow citizens are personally responsible for all the wrongs this country has done then I guess it is the exploited Chinese worker's fault that the Chinese worker is exploited, and it is his fault that they are polluting their land to an enormousness degree. It is the Chinese citizen's fault for Mao's Long March, for his Great Leap Forward which resulted in enormous famine. It is also the Chinese citizen's fault for the cultural revolution, Tienanmen square, for the mass censorship of the internet, and many many more things. So yeah. Those are all your bad I guess.

edit on 7-5-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

I'm not taking any "glory" out of your collapse if thats what you mean. I am an Australian, but what I want Westerners to know is that out of your collapse there isn't going to be a world order arise. The West has ruled for over 500 years in economic, financial, technological, cultural and just about everything else.
This is the greatest change that has been experienced in over half a millenia, this doesn't happen often and I suspect the East will rule for a lot longer than 500 years if you ask me.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


as far as i was aware most people knew, talked about, and accept places like china are becoming the new world power. people do not talk about a n.w.o doing things on purpose (whether true or not) to their countries because of a shift in power to the west. people talk about that stuff because they see, hear and experience things constantly that suggests they are being lied to, losing their freedoms, and witness corruption or mistreatment of citizens etc.

all of which seems to suggest to people something is wrong with the way their country is heading or being run and is out of character of the values their county once held themselves too.

there is a power shift from east to west maybe, but that's not the cause of why people think there is an agenda or conspiracy caused by a n.w.o. or some other group to change their country for the worse in a lot of peoples eyes. the reason people think there is a n.w.o is because their country is seemingly more like a prison/police state with each passing day.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


It's your reference to European colonialism in the following quote you offered earlier:

Well maybe its because you kicked them around, exploited their lands, and made war against them? Many countries in Asia haven't forgotten how they were treated under European colonialism, why can't they do the same what you did to them?

I just have this pet peeve about making this kind of argument. This stems from the arguments that it's ok for Obama to do X because Bush did it/started it. And of course it's not ok for Obama to do it. It just needs to stop. You know. "We've had enough killing for one day."

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I find that those who like to give others reality checks, not to mention "sad reality checks" are the ones who are generally delusional. The East is rising? I've got new for you, my friend. The sun has always risen from the East, and has always set upon the West. All of which has nothing at all to do with anything, just as this thread has nothing at all to do with anything other than contributing to more of the same old delusional divisive crap.

How am I being divise, please share that one.

I am talking about westerners who believe their civilization is the centre of the world, and at the moment it is. But this fear that if they collapse there will be a nwo is rubbish, the only change that is coming is in the East, a great change as well.

America should lead the world on merit not might.That is really what we believe and what we stand for anyway.This loose cannon will be silenced soon and we should regain our balance. If the east wants to play superpower then they too will feel the sting of ironic failure.I would state ,however ,might makes right tactics are causing world issues.If the east can regain it's ancient wisdom that would be great.But between communism and Muslim supremacists it would be an uphill battle.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Oh I see. My mistake, no divisiveness in declaring "You Westerners are deluded" because you're just talking about a specific set of Westerners, and nothing divisive about declaring it is the Easts time to "reign" either, right?

Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

It's your reference to European colonialism in the following quote you offered earlier:

Well maybe its because you kicked them around, exploited their lands, and made war against them? Many countries in Asia haven't forgotten how they were treated under European colonialism, why can't they do the same what you did to them?

I just have this pet peeve about making this kind of argument. This stems from the arguments that it's ok for Obama to do X because Bush did it/started it. And of course it's not ok for Obama to do it. It just needs to stop. You know. "We've had enough killing for one day."

The West has been doing this for over 500 years, the British were in India and Singapore, the French were in Indochina, the Dutch were in Indonesia, and the Americans were in the Phillipines.

I feel the same way as you do, as Gandi once said

"An eye for an eye leaves the world blind"

And in this instance it is very true, but I am not the one who is angry, Asia has not forgotten its colonial masters, they are the ones seeking revenge not I.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


One word: cheap

While you point out China and other Eastern nations are busy on top of general manufacturing, the U.S. in particular is busy with the industries of pharmaceuticals, banking, and weapons and in the meanwhile buying everything else from other nations where labor is cheaper. I do believe you're failing to look at the big picture. Our resources are hardly being touched in comparison to half a century ago, while our "economic crisis" has driven down our own labor cost and the wars are improving our military technologies, which are now actively tested on the battlefield.

The East would not be rising had American corporate collusion with gov'ts and lobbying for international free trade crippled the future of USA for ever. There's no going back now.

However...the east owes these corporate shills their thanks. They brought capital, industry, and modernization with them.

But the East still likes their western stuff. Everything from fake Starbucks, to counterfiet western merchandise. The East still wants to be like big brother, they just ain't there yet.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Oh I see. My mistake, no divisiveness in declaring "You Westerners are deluded" because you're just talking about a specific set of Westerners, and nothing divisive about declaring it is the Easts time to "reign" either, right?

If you read my OP smartarse you would know that title is befitting only to those westerners who believe their collapse would trigger a nwo.

Once again, I am not declaring it is the Easts time to reign, for it has already begun. If you truly believe the West will reign forever than I am afraid you are deluded, my friend.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital

Once again, I am not declaring it is the Easts time to reign, for it has already begun. If you truly believe the West will reign forever than I am afraid you are deluded, my friend.

Once again your own words betray you. I never said anything about the West reigning "forever" or at all. This is your obsession, not mine. East, West Left, Right, Up, Down, take a side and you divide. That is simple math.

Originally posted by Goldcurrent
The East would not be rising had American corporate collusion with gov'ts and lobbying for international free trade crippled the future of USA for ever. There's no going back now.

However...the east owes these corporate shills their thanks. They brought capital, industry, and modernization with them.

But the East still likes their western stuff. Everything from fake Starbucks, to counterfiet western merchandise. The East still wants to be like big brother, they just ain't there yet.

edit on 7-5-2012 by Goldcurrent because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-5-2012 by Goldcurrent because: (no reason given)

This I can agree with, if it were not for the West the East would still be in medieval times. However, I think countries like China don't want to be "western" so to speak. They are looking to build their own empire but with a formula that ensures they do not repeat the decline of EU/America.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Once again, I am not declaring it is the Easts time to reign, for it has already begun. If you truly believe the West will reign forever than I am afraid you are deluded, my friend.

Once again your own words betray you. I never said anything about the West reigning "forever" or at all. This is your obsession, not mine. East, West Left, Right, Up, Down, take a side and you divide. That is simple math.

Nice way to put words in my mouth, you are trying to make me bite, but I won't. Read my OP again and you can see that I don't care for west or east. BUT this delusion that westerners have that makes them feel they are the sole civilization has come to an end, the East whether for better or worse is here and its not going anywhere .

I don't divide, I am neutral in this, as an Australian the rise of the East will greatly increase Australia's and other Asia/Pacific nations voice on the international stage.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


And this would be to invest in, and buy up all tangible, real-world producing, self sustaining, businesses, properties, etc. around the globe.

I see it every day. Yes. The east will rise and create an empire.

Like I said, there is no turning back for the U.S.

Free reign trade has done nothing but to hurt the average American.

Once the globalist agenda has fully taken place, it will be an even playing field for everyone.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Quoting you ver batim is not putting "words in your mouth", nice attempt at backpedaling. You can keep yammering on about how innocent you are in this matter, and keep suggesting I re-read your O.P., but I would suggest you re-read that post and all subsequent posts and take a good long hard look at your language, as well as your obsession with Westerners.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Now of course this is not aimed at you.

Are you referring to Asia as mostly China? Or the middle east? Philippines and others don't really seem to be part of this discussion en masse. And I guess that China hasn't forgotten? What did we do to them? They are the ones with the money and resources right now and not the others. Are they acting out of justice in representation of another country exploited by the West?

Remember, if you've read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, you'd know that the west made deals with the leaders of those nations and those leaders exploited them. Slaves that came to America were sold to the white man by the leaders of those tribes in Africa as that was just normal business of the day.

I would say that it's only in this modern time of the last 80 years or so have the West been taking by force, but deals are still being made behind closed doors with lots of money to be made.

My point is about the deals being made and China's deals with the U.S. have only made each of them stronger. China can't and won't do anything to hurt the U.S. as we are their mule pulling the cart.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Quoting you ver batim is not putting "words in your mouth", nice attempt at backpedaling. You can keep yammering on about how innocent you are in this matter, and keep suggesting I re-read your O.P., but I would suggest you re-read that post and all subsequent posts and take a good long hard look at your language, as well as your obsession with Westerners.

Firstly, I don't have an obsession with westerners, I'm WHITE.

Secondly, you said "saying the East will reign is divisive". To which I replied "well the west ain't gonna reign forever", to which you said "Your own words betray you I never said the west would reign forever.
Well of course you didn't I was responding to the "saying the East will reign is divisive"

I suggest you take a good long hard look at your posts.