Exposing the tragic fabrication of a saviour of the world

reply to post by Archon23

... well to the prophets before Yashua of course.

Since I am not an ancient Syrian, I don't recognize that name.
Are you possibly thinking of the person in the Christian Bible, named Jesus?

reply to post by wildtimes


Thank you, same goes to you too. I appreciate having informative conversations and people that can add useful insights to your thoughts and opinions rather than put them down and say they're "over the top" or "looney" or whatever people want to call it.

Yes i agree, we won't know until we get there, i am a spiritual believer, and yes i agree with your statement regarding death, but i think that we are born onto this earth for a journey, death is simply our ticket home just until we feel like coming back to this earth.
PS: can not wait until 21st Dec 2012, very excited to experience the start of the age of Aquarius first hand and can not imagine what will happen. but that's a topic for another post

Namaste.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Yes it is becoming apparent lately that the actual name in the original Hebrew bible Jesus was actually called Yahshua or with the correct spelling i assume Yehoshuah , (sorry for my earlier mistake)

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Too bad. By the time you realize what Christianity really is it's probably too late. Unless you are young.

Why would it be too late? Plenty of people arrive at it later in life; plenty of others are born into it. It makes sense to me to question things until they make sense. Just my nature. This is neither good nor bad, I'm just curious and interested in the Truth.

I have found that lots of others are, as well. But that doesn't mean everyone is curious or interested in "proof", and that's fine, too. We are each on our own paths. We will each have a unique set of difficulties and problems, and because we are all individual, we will arrive at unique points along that path. I get frustrated not "knowing"...

my recent obsession with the subject I realize has been a coping mechanism in dealing with the death of my father - the first time I have lost a dearly beloved family member. It sent me reeling...my dad was a believer in God, but not religion. I am perhaps vicariously exploring what his decisions were based on. In any case, I am healing from the grief that blew me away like a twig in a tsunami.

My dad always taught me "look it up" when I asked questions........so, I do. He also told me "get it in writing".... and never to leave home without enough money to make a phone call...among many other things. Perhaps my most recent indulgence into things spiritual is prompted by him in some way...I don't know. Yet. So I'm looking it up.

reply to post by Archon23


We agree on much, then. Precisely with the reincarnation thing...

Thanks for your participation...I'm excited for Dec 12 too!!
It's a very cool time to be alive...but I have always enjoyed my life. I awaken every morning excited to know that today I will learn more than I knew yesterday. I think cheerfulness and hope and optimism is very important for the journey.

Your avatar is really, cool, btw.

reply to post by wildtimes


It's great that we have the same view on things, it is hard to find people that take the time in their life to reach for the knowledge that most of the population takes for granted.

I think though we're getting off-topic now, but i'd love to continue this conversation and share some thoughts through messages or something like that, because i think we're heading towards a less relevant subject at the moment towards this topic

Btw thanks

reply to post by wildtimes

Why would it be too late? Plenty of people arrive at it later in life; plenty of others are born into it. It makes sense to me to question things until they make sense. Just my nature. This is neither good nor bad, I'm just curious and interested in the Truth.

Imagine living for 20 years and then figuring out all you lived for wasn't worth much.

Now imagine living for 50 years and doing the same. The longer you live and get used to how you live, the harder it will be to see the truth. Mainly because you've lived longer accepting something different than what is peeking your interest.

my recent obsession with the subject I realize has been a coping mechanism in dealing with the death of my father - the first time I have lost a dearly beloved family member. It sent me reeling...my dad was a believer in God, but not religion. I am perhaps vicariously exploring what his decisions were based on. In any case, I am healing from the grief that blew me away like a twig in a tsunami.

My condolences(if worth anything),

Your curiosity is not ill found I might add. One of my interpretations of the bible(for the ease of explaining) is that it is a book that explains human psychology and universal balance through analogies, parables and the sort.

We will each have a unique set of difficulties and problems, and because we are all individual, we will arrive at unique points along that path. I get frustrated not "knowing"...

I definitely agree here. The frustration can become heavy. One advice, on how to deal with not knowing, I got was that you can always pray for wisdom. So if you even faintly believe, give it a try

I, like your father, believe in God, but I do not subscribe to any religions.

reply to post by Archon23

Yes it is becoming apparent lately that the actual name in the original Hebrew bible Jesus was actually called Yahshua or with the correct spelling i assume Yehoshuah , (sorry for my earlier mistake)

I make it a habit to counter any use of a name other than Jesus to refer to the person in the New Testament known as Christ.
I see the use of other names as a tool of subversion to destroy Christianity by people questioning the very existence of such a person. I doubt people on this forum willingly are doing that but think it is somehow trendy and "cool" to take on airs of superiority over the "ignorant" Christians who use the Greek version of the Old Testament name of the protege of Moses. The reality is that in the time of Christ, most Jews did not actually live in Judea, including Jesus himself, and the majority of those in the diaspora probably spoke Greek and used the Greek forms of the older traditional names.
There is a real conspiracy that has been ongoing over the last 200 years to eliminate traditional Christianity with a worship of Judaism, not to actually convert to Judaism, but to become slaves to those already in the "tribe".

reply to post by InfoKartel

Now imagine living for 50 years and doing the same.

I don't have to imagine it. I am 53 years old. I learn more every day, and go through cycles of interest in topics that fascinate me.

Thank you for your response; I expect to go to my grave still "not knowing", and that's okay. I do pray for wisdom, and I have some, I believe. My reasons for opening this thread are not to feel sorry for myself; but to bring to light some ideas that others may have missed before, that I have recently come across on my own journey.

My aim is not to "destroy" anyone's faith, but to encourage them, and empower them with info I have found, to open their eyes and minds. We are all connected, we need to help one another.

I'm very weary of wars and hatred and narrow-minded stereotyping and intolerance. Just doing my part to try to stop it.

Question: "Is Jesus a myth? Is Jesus just a copy of the pagan gods of other ancient religions?"

Answer: There are a number of voices claiming that the accounts of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament are simply myths and were the result of the writers borrowing stories from pagan mythology, such as the stories of Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Attis, and Mithras. The claim is that these mythological figures are essentially the same story as what the New Testament ascribes to Jesus Christ of Nazareth. As Dan Brown claims in, The Da Vinci Code, “Nothing in Christianity is original.”

However, once the facts are examined, these claims are proven false. To discover the truth about these particular claims and others like them, it is important to: (1) unearth the history behind their assertions, (2) examine the actual historical portrayals of the false gods being compared to Christ, (3) expose the logical fallacies that the authors are making, and (4) look at why the New Testament Gospels can be trusted as accurately depicting the true and historical Jesus Christ.

Detailed comparisons given in full link below:

www.gotquestions.org...

reply to post by jmdewey60


I can't make a comment on what you said simply for the fact because i don't agree or disagree, what you said makes sense, i like to refer to Jesus as Yehshua at times because that is what his origin stated from in my belief, i think of it rather like a Rapper name.. for instance take Eminem, He's known around the world as Eminem, but i meet people at times where i mention Marshall / Marshall Mathers, and they do not know who he is, same i think with Jesus, Jesus is a rather wide spread easier name to remember kind of like a Rapper Stage name, catchy at times, looks good, sounds good, and than he has his real name, but thats just my opinion ~

reply to post by Deetermined


What can't speak can't lie as the Brits say


Isis and Horus or is it Mary and Jesus

reply to post by jmdewey60


Hi jmdewey60

I have been thinking about it like this:
For the past 2000+ years humans have used a very black and white style of thinking good/evil - black/white - you are either with us or with the terrorists - if you are not a christian then you must be in league with Lucifer
sort of thing

This type of thinking is called Aristotelian logic but what I’m noticing is that we humans are starting to move away from that style in to seeing life as actually many different shades of gray

black< a lot of shades of gray > white

and are beginning to see black/white answers as useless and even dangerous for our future wellbeing

so we might be at the beginning of a global change in human consciousness – ok so not as exiting as some of the ideas about the future you can find on ATS but if I’m right the change will be profound

reply to post by Archon23

. . . and than he has his real name . . .

Regardless of my opinion of the lack of historical accuracy in Acts, I think it was written close enough to the events to at least know Christ's name. It tells us that the disciples would get arrested and beaten up for just saying his name in the temple. Pthena brought up in another thread that Greek was not allowed to be spoken except for in the Greek Court of the temple. Jesus was called by Philip to speak to some Greek speakers who had to meet him in the Greek Court in order to have a conversation with him. He would have only gone if he was going to talk to them in the Greek language.
I have to accept that Jesus could speak in three languages. But, I do not have to consider Jesus as a translation but a name itself in common usage. Now if suppose you were yourself a native Aramaic speaker who knew no other language, then it would be appropriate to use the variant in that language, but to me, any other use is an affectation which is unbecoming of a Christian and something for the "Judaizers" who are our enemy.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
"...but to me, any other use is an affectation which is unbecoming of a Christian and something for the "Judaizers" who are our enemy."

edit on 9-5-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

yes i understand where you're coming from...

by the way, i could not help but bringing up that quote above, how can you worship Jesus and enforce the use of Jesus Christ instead of Yehshua when you speak of the people that don't as of your enemies... doesn't that go against Jesus's will? ( i know i simply picked on a little fragile detail that may have been misunderstood by me or not, but I'm curious of how you can be so loyal yet speaking of enemies (no disrespect intended))

reply to post by racasan

. . . and are beginning to see black/white answers as useless and even dangerous for our future wellbeing . . .

Ok, but who is thinking what?
Is it the "masses" that are allowing for the grey, and the powers that be who are in the black/white mentality?
Are they going to bring us into a world war that will eventually settle out to a coming back to sanity?
I do not see that as a viable option since we see the high ideals represented by the Nuremberg trials and the formation of the UN Charter, and the institution of war crime laws and laws for humanity, at the end of WW II. Only to see them go straight down the tubes in the 60's with Vietnam and the Six Day War.
I think we need to wake up now, and not later after billions of war dead.

Originally posted by windword

Putting emphasis on his death as opposed to his life and teachings is the downfall and corruption of Christianity.

very relevant...imo the smoking gun to the corruption of the Chruch is its need to focus on the death, fire, and brimstone...fear to keep individuals in submission...

i believe the idea of Jesus to be facually inspired; however, i believe the Church has influenced his reality in our experience to suit the needs of the more influential priests.

i dont understand how people can say they agree the Church is corrupt, but the Book is fact/divinely inspired...the Bible says in itself that the flesh of man is whicked...yet they follow a book crafted by the flesh. The Church uses the Bible, so how can they not be one in the same? if one is understood corrupt then the other should by associaion as well.

reply to post by shepseskaf

Of course it matters whether Jesus really lived, or not. If indeed he is a created historical figure, then none of his so-called covenants with humans on this planet are real. Salvation, as currently "achieved" by "believing on Jesus", is a sham. A person who claims to "feel" Jesus' presence is experiencing nothing more than a figment of his or her imagination. It is something that individuals obviously want so badly that it appears to actually manifest itself.

As far as the lessons go, as has already been stated several times in this thread, the bible writings were all based on much older religions and sacred writings. Those lessons on morality and other matters are certainly valuable, but have absolutely no bearing on christianity as it is expressed in modern society.

I think it should be obvious to anyone who studies the New Testament that there are several Jesus'es. If most or all of these versions are incorrect, it does not by itself detract from his very existence. I believe that the important "version" of Jesus is the one that people experience themselves. If you have never experienced Jesus, then perhaps this is not the path to God for you, and you may want to seek something else. I would suggest as you probably agree with, that one has himself examined for possible insanity if they find themselves experiencing God in a strange sort of way.
I doubt that there is a covenant that we can use to demand salvation with, and that if it uses what looks to be that term in the New Testament, it is probably meant in a metaphorical sense.
God sent His son into the world to save the world, and he claimed to have done just that in the Gospel of John, by judging the world in its lust to fulfill the idea that success in the world means gathering material goods for yourself at the expense of others. What seems to be loss to the world, will be gain in the eyes of God.

reply to post by racasan

so we might be at the beginning of a global change in human consciousness – ok so not as exiting as some of the ideas about the future you can find on ATS but if I’m right the change will be profound

I certainly hope so....although it is mildly disheartening to realize that it really isn't a "new" idea...the first 'Great Awakening' happened in the mid 1800s...Jonathan Edward I believe....
but, 200 years is a nano-second in the grand scheme of things, and if we are here to see a Global awakening that will be fabulous indeed!!

I've noticed the same thing, and even here on ATS there are more people speaking up now, there seems to be a bit more courage to do so lately...but then, I've only been here a little over a year.

The Urantia Book was written in the early-mid 1900s, and is still online today....it had the same shift in consciousness, too....but that's off topic for this thread, which may very well have run its course..

reply to post by Archon23

. . . you speak of the people that don't as of your enemies... doesn't that go against Jesus's will?

The can only think of one person on this forum who is (in my opinion, very suspect ) intentionally subverting Christianity. This person going by the name starting with an E and ending with a T (just so no one needs to think I am talking about them). I think everyone else is not the enemy to Christianity, but are being sucked into an argument being presented by people who are the enemy of Christianity. Even with that being said, I don't go around thinking these are my personal enemies as if I need to do something to them. I just try to do some education and ignore the one person I think is beyond that.
Luke 1:71
that we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all who hate us.

The Gospel uses the word, enemy, but it is how they see us. We don't need to have reciprocal feelings.