A question for the ladies.

reply to post by Gazrok

The ONLY reason people ACTUALLY have for not having sex, a relationship, or both is because they don't have someone right now who they are attracted to, and who's also available and is attracted back. Any OTHER excuse is just that, an excuse...and it's BS. Single people will even lie to themselves about this, but in the end, it's still a lie, any way you slice it. We all want that companionship. Anyone who says differently, is only BS'ing themselves...not this guy.

Sorry, but you can't speak for all humans, and I personally resent that you think you can call others who you've never met liars. Please speak for yourself, and leave others who now full well why they don't want a relationship out of your pseudo analysis.

Sometimes relationships are more work than some care for, and the companionship isn't all its cracked up to be.

You can have companionship with friends of both sexes, when you want, and often supposed "romantic" relationships end up full of annoying little quirks , and expectations.

Some of the loneliest people I know are in relationships , and some of the happiest people I know have chosen to live single.

Sorry, but you can't speak for all humans, and I personally resent that you think you can call others who you've never met liars. Please speak for yourself, and leave others who now full well why they don't want a relationship out of your pseudo analysis.

Nope.

It's a forum for discussion, so if I want to use a logical fallacy and claim to speak for all humans, then I'm perfectly allowed to hang myself with my own rope.

And, it's my opinion...that you're lying to yourself and really do want a relationship.
Weeks or months from now, you'll probably have a thread here about how happy you are in your new relationship.

Originally posted by Gazrok

Sorry, but you can't speak for all humans, and I personally resent that you think you can call others who you've never met liars. Please speak for yourself, and leave others who now full well why they don't want a relationship out of your pseudo analysis.

Nope.

It's a forum for discussion, so if I want to use a logical fallacy and claim to speak for all humans, then I'm perfectly allowed to hang myself with my own rope.

And, it's my opinion...that you're lying to yourself and really do want a relationship.

Weeks or months from now, you'll probably have a thread here about how happy you are in your new relationship.

By all means then, hang yourself with your own rope.

My opinion is you can't speak for all humans, and calling them liars because they disagree with you sounds immature at best.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


Lets just say then, that in my four decades upon this Earth, I have YET to meet a single human being who truly desires to be alone, and that experience is the basis for my statement. Your mileage may vary. (and of course, if said person really wants to be alone...guess I wouldn't have MET them, hehe...so point there..)

That doesn't mean there aren't times when we all want to be alone, but as for people wanting to always be alone? Haven't met such an animal yet.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

Lets just say then, that in my four decades upon this Earth, I have YET to meet a single human being who truly desires to be alone, and that experience is the basis for my statement. Your mileage may vary. (and of course, if said person really wants to be alone...guess I wouldn't have MET them, hehe...so point there..)

That doesn't mean there aren't times when we all want to be alone, but as for people wanting to always be alone? Haven't met such an animal yet.

Ok, fair enough, you haven't met anyone yet, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I don't like that you would go to the extremes of calling those who legitimately feel happier being single, liars.

Alone and single are two different things, though some do feel happier spending more time alone. (humans can be irritating to some)

Many people not in a relationship spend much quality time with friends, and lead very rewarding lives, without all the drama and headaches that can accompany romantic relationships.

You are judging by your experiences, and how you feel, and that is understandable , but I wish you could realize that not everyone thinks and feels the same, and through the experiences they may have had, have come to realize that they are much happier without the baggage of a relationship.

If Gazrok were correct, not a single human would ever have joined a monastery. And yet they exist.

How is that?

Originally posted by Isabelx
For me; I've been single for a few years solely due to lack of real connections. I have been through the casual dating / friends-with-benefits ordeal, and in the end, I realized that it was a deadend road and would never lead to my desired destination..

Sex can be had any day of the week, but an intimate connection to another... deeply knowing, trusting and connecting with someone... not only as a partner, but also as a friend and supporter... is the ultimate prize and well worth the wait.

I know exactly what I want now, and I'm completely content alone with myself until I find that.

However... I also believe that it takes some experience and growing up to do to reach that point..

If someone had told me even 5 years ago that casual sex only led to headaches, I would've never believed them..

edit on 11-6-2012 by Isabelx because: (no reason given)

Do you think that knowing yourself really well is a big part of finding someone you can connect with?

In other words, if you're always asking yourself why you do the things you do, can realistically expect to find someone you can connect with when you can't even connect with yourself?

I'm not saying YOU personally, just people in general.

BTW, casual sex only leads to headaches if you get too attached to someone. You have to be kind of selfish for it not to be a headache for you. Do it for YOU. Just like the other person is really.

Originally posted by tovenar

If Gazrok were correct, not a single human would ever have joined a monastery. And yet they exist.

How is that?

They just feel that, for whatever reason, that's the only recourse they have to being happy. That doesn't mean they WANT to be alone.

They're settling.

Gazrok is right IMO. People can lie to themselves all they want, no one WANTS to be alone their entire lives. It's just that some people give up and tell themselves that they do.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds


Many people not in a relationship spend much quality time with friends, and lead very rewarding lives, without all the drama and headaches that can accompany romantic relationships.

............... the baggage of a relationship.

If that's the case, then I'd be happier on my own as well. If a relationship has drama, headaches, and baggage then it's not a relationship worth having. On a side note though, any relationship is going to have baggage unless both people have been hermits their entire lives. You might be surprised at how well love can unpack that baggage though.

You, as well as Gazrok, are speaking from what seems like your own experiences. Again, I think Gazrok is right. It's not so much that I'm sticking up for the guy, it's just that I haven't seen a valid argument against his yet. The guy just has a habit of making sense.

What you said is true. I'll give you that. But that doesn't mean that the person WANTS to be alone. They simply feel that they NEED to be for the sake of their peace of mind.

As Cheryl Crow said: "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got."

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds


Many people not in a relationship spend much quality time with friends, and lead very rewarding lives, without all the drama and headaches that can accompany romantic relationships.

............... the baggage of a relationship.

If that's the case, then I'd be happier on my own as well. If a relationship has drama, headaches, and baggage then it's not a relationship worth having. On a side note though, any relationship is going to have baggage unless both people have been hermits their entire lives. You might be surprised at how well love can unpack that baggage though.

You, as well as Gazrok, are speaking from what seems like your own experiences. Again, I think Gazrok is right. It's not so much that I'm sticking up for the guy, it's just that I haven't seen a valid argument against his yet. The guy just has a habit of making sense.

What you said is true. I'll give you that. But that doesn't mean that the person WANTS to be alone. They simply feel that they NEED to be for the sake of their peace of mind.

As Cheryl Crow said: "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got."

I speak from experience, and much observation of others relationships .

I'm not saying that its impossible to be happy in a relationship, because good relationships do exist.

What I'm saying is that I've seen enough relationships, to see they can add a lot of stress, and some of the happiest people I know are single by choice. Yes they WANT to be single, plain and simple.

I think Gazrok sees things from his own perceptive, which is fine. He has the right to his own opinion.But to say that all people who disagree with him are liars, or lying to themselves, is a bit much.

Yes, he can make sense at times, but he can also be off base on some of his theories, and I think he is on this call.

American woman here in my 40's and single. I'm attractive and sexual, but still in Love with Ex...so for me having sex with anyone else would just be too painful.....I tried once and had a "one night stand" when ex stood me up one night...I was all dressed up and went to a bar all by myself, within 5 min. this guy approached me and for a "brief" time, I felt appreciated and beautiful........BUT when the reality set in and I realized What I was doing, I fled the hotel room without even saying good-bye....I was sick with grief and regret...I did tell the ex the following day......one of many nails in the coffin of that relationship.

I'm still so heartbroken over the loss of that relationship, that the only sex I'm having is with him, in my heart and my mind......lol.....so I guess to answer your question, I'm not having sex because on some level I am "punishing" myself for my fault in the failure of that relationship....I "saw" him 3 mns. ago, and since then barely shave my legs, let alone seeking another "Lover"......maybe I'm going to end up being a crazy, lonely lady with too many pets

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
American woman here in my 40's and single. I'm attractive and sexual, but still in Love with Ex...so for me having sex with anyone else would just be too painful.....I tried once and had a "one night stand" when ex stood me up one night...I was all dressed up and went to a bar all by myself, within 5 min. this guy approached me and for a "brief" time, I felt appreciated and beautiful........BUT when the reality set in and I realized What I was doing, I fled the hotel room without even saying good-bye....I was sick with grief and regret...I did tell the ex the following day......one of many nails in the coffin of that relationship.

I'm still so heartbroken over the loss of that relationship, that the only sex I'm having is with him, in my heart and my mind......lol.....so I guess to answer your question, I'm not having sex because on some level I am "punishing" myself for my fault in the failure of that relationship....I "saw" him 3 mns. ago, and since then barely shave my legs, let alone seeking another "Lover"......maybe I'm going to end up being a crazy, lonely lady with too many pets

You sound like someone I know so I'll tell you what I tell her; Move on. Focus on the business aspect of your life. She has one and it's something she's never done before. That's what I was for really. I could give her an example of a woman who did that and became successful, but that wouldn't be...........appropriate. Normally I like the fact when a woman "thinks' of me that way, but not in this case. We have a child and that keeps her focus off of the child.

Speaking of which, the lesson to be taken from what you said is something I won't have to teach my child if the mother keeps staying in the place she's at. Our kid will see firsthand how self-destructive it really is.

As far as you staying lonely because 'Picturing" him is good enough, let me give you a mans point of view. You're the type of barfly that we dream of. The jackpot of one night stands. The reason why some guys wait to go to a bar until half an hour before closing time. Why? Because more times than not when they close their eyes, they're thinking of someone else. Do we mind? Why would we? We both know what we're in it for, so it's all good. We know why YOU'RE there and you know why WE'RE there. Pathetic......but true. Besides which, we don't really have to be that good because WE'RE not the one having sex with you if you "think" about it. Women like you make it a win-win situation for us. You make it easy for us to be there when we don't really have to be.

So there you have it hon. Keep holding onto a man that let you go a long time ago and you're leaving yourself with two options: The barfly who's always the easy catch at closing time or the crazy cat lady on the 5th floor apartment. Trust me, you don't want to be either one of those women. You'll end up prowling the all night convenience stores being friendly to strangers.

PM me if you want advice that's more direct.

youtu.be...

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Yeah, all good advice.....and things I already know.....I'm not really "wired" for casual sexual encounters....so for now just focus on other aspects of life and work.....mourn the loss....and let things "unfold" as they are meant to. I miss sex, but not enough to have it with someone I don't care about.

Happy Father's Day...

reply to post by MountainLaurel


That's good to know. And you're right, what's meant to be is what's meant to be. If you ever get that gut feeling that something is meant to be, pursue it. By all means possible.

And thanks. I might go see the little one tonight. Hopefully she doesn't have other plans.

reply to post by tovenar


Lets not even go there...(monastery).

For starters, that doesn't mean they never had relationships prior to it....or that they still desire them.
Indeed, there are quite a few who run to it because they can't figure out why they like little boys....

I don't like that you would go to the extremes of calling those who legitimately feel happier being single, liars.

You're the one who keeps using that word (liars). I simply said you weren't being honest with yourself. That's different than the term "liar" you use, which is lying to others, and a whole different ballgame.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by tovenar

 

Lets not even go there...(monastery).

For starters, that doesn't mean they never had relationships prior to it....or that they still desire them.
Indeed, there are quite a few who run to it because they can't figure out why they like little boys....

I don't like that you would go to the extremes of calling those who legitimately feel happier being single, liars.

You're the one who keeps using that word (liars). I simply said you weren't being honest with yourself. That's different than the term "liar" you use, which is lying to others, and a whole different ballgame.

edit on 19-6-2012 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

hmmm..nice try on dodging what you actually typed and implied.

Any OTHER excuse is just that, an excuse...and it's BS. Single people will even lie to themselves about this, but in the end, it's still a lie, any way you slice it. We all want that companionship. Anyone who says differently, is only BS'ing themselves...not this guy.

Sorry but the above statement sounds like you are accusing them of lying, even if it is to themselves, and the reason I used the word liars is because you used it....plain and simple, so please save the back peddling on what you typed or how it was intended. I'm addressing the point that I have quoted above, which is an implication that they are not being honest about not really caring if they are in a relationship or not, or even prefer to not be in one.

As far as your reasoning of why those who join monasteries, you can't speak for all of them. Some may have issues with being attracted to boys, but it seems that there are many men in heterosexual relationships that seem to have the same problem.

I know women who are very happy being part of communities living as single people, and I can tell you that they seem to be far happier, and at peace with themselves, than many of the women I see struggling through their relationships.

For some it is worth it to suffer and struggle through the bad times, and hope that it gets better, and hopefully for them it does. Relationships can take a lot of work, and it can be worth it, and I'm not saying that it isn't.

I'm merely saying that they aren't for everyone, and some just don't think the negative aspects to them outweigh the good.

All my point is ... is that I disagree with your "everyone" statement, and found it presumptuous and incorrect, and a degrading to say these people are lying to themselves, or simply "BS'ing" (which is the same as calling them liars in my opinion.)

Understand?

reply to post by Gazrok


I realize your reply was to another member, but I wanted to address it considering you used a quote in it from one of my posts.

Originally posted by Gazrok
For starters, that doesn't mean they never had relationships prior to it....or that they still desire them.
Indeed, there are quite a few who run to it because they can't figure out why they like little boys....

Clearly you haven't met many monks. I have and only a couple of weeks ago I spent a very pleasant evening with a monastic community and I am sure that they would have been amused by your comment about 'little boys' and taken it for the gross show of ignorance that it clearly is. In the old days, the Church was a means of getting rid of 'problems', and sadly, because of that some very sick individuals were placed in positions of trust which they abused. But otherwise, paedophiles, those that like little boys and little girls, are drawn to professions that expose them to children, such as teaching, health care, youth groups, sports clubs, etc. Monastic communities though, for the most part, have very little contact with children, so no, that is generally not a good choice for the paedophile. It is though a good choice for those who wish to devote their lives to prayer and charitable work. The counselling that now accompanies the taking of orders, ensures that those that are simply 'running away' from worldly problems are sifted out and assisted in finding solutions to those problems. It is not an escape, but a choice.

And some people, just aren't interested in relationships, either in the church, or in normal life, because it does create a distraction from achieving the goals that they have set for themselves and because sometimes, experience has taught us not to compromise on some things, and that also, sometimes, some of us, are better off on our own.

Obviously this is not the 'norm', but then you should understand, given the non-standard nature of your own relationship which hardly fits the 'norm' either, that we are all different, and because of the difference, we all have different priorites, and experiences that shape what we do or do not need or want.

In short, always take care in judging others by your own standards.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


UK women here,

To be quite honest TIME!! theres just not enough hours in the day,

It sounds sad but working all hours to make enough money to pay the rent and bills and the stress of just everyday live can be a big prevention,

Just having the time to focus on someone else with the added "Sex" and all that comes along with that can be a put off,

Personaly i have figured a way to balance both but for quite some time i just felt that there was so much other things to worry about i just did not have the time to hold a job, make money pay bills and have a fella lol,

Originally posted by tovenar

If Gazrok were correct, not a single human would ever have joined a monastery. And yet they exist.

How is that?

But they're not truly alone. They have their fellow monks and form bonds of friendship.