Calling All Carnivores Tell Us Why It’s Ethical to Eat Meat: A Contest, A Summary, A Winner

Disgustipated comes to mind. THIS IS NECESSARY. THIS IS NECESSARY. LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE FEEDS ON LIIIIIIIFE. As with anything, all things in moderation and you are what you eat. That's all that needs to be said imo.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie



The eating of the animals I have tried to justify and understand since youth. I tried and tried to convince myself that maybe the animals are all old bad energies recycled and them being treated cruel and harvested AND RE EATEN is part of what the energies did TO OTHERS in the past existence. I know bare with me. But the more I have matured I realize the processing involved to deliver chicken Mcnuggets ect. to my children and its very sad what has to be done to the poultry-beef-pork and other meat products to sell them to general populace. A part of me SINCE YOUTH always felt like what if humans had to experience this type of treatment or harvesting for another creature(s)/ species. STILL WORKING ON THAT answer since youth. In my recent years I have thought of maybe using technology to develop animal HUSK free of neurological connections&nerves (meaning these husk would pump blood thru their bodies but would lack the part of them that would make them conscious) the brain and all its parts related to pain/and awareness not grown within husk. I have observed the slaughter house activities and if you notice the animals NEXT IN LINE seem to carry a bit of fear as if they can hear/feel/sense the animals in front of them being slaughtered IMAGINE THAT FEELING AND THEY KNOW THEIR NEXT. If any believe in KARMATIC energy then there is much built up due to the treatment of these creations which are ALSO EA*RTH creations as well ***THINKS Georgia Guidstones comment about humanity being kept @ 500,000,000 population to sustain correct vibrations with wildlife. Then REMEMBERS*** humanity is approx.6.5billion past that mark HUMANITY SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND BETTER WAYS TO HAVE COMPASSION FOR THESE CREATIONS AS WELL. Use high techs make husk and move on. Allow the animal life to cycle itself the UNAWARE ANIMALS EAT UNAWARE ANIMALS. AWARE CREATIONS LIKE HUMANS EAT ANIMAL HUSK which eliminates the energy possibly related to these animals/food killed mistreated as they move from conception phase thru to slaughter. I guess its all based on the COMPASSION of the creation eating the other creations.

[COLOR=CYAN]As far as reasons WHY humans have a BLOODLUST. May it be related to possible genetic alterations?? Alterations related to something as simple as having a WORKFORCE OF HUMANS that CAN WORK MORE HOURS/LABOR due to them ingesting MEAT PRODUCTS instead of only VEGGIE PRODUCTS. If you want strong work force that can work more productive then you modify into the workforce a way to process more energized materials or MEAT within their GI TRACKS (genetic modification proof possibley) humans may not of been heavy meat eaters (other then large bugs maybe) in early stages of development but may have needed to be modified to be more work productive or STRONGER so it may have been assessed to upgrade their food intake abilities to make stronger. So in REALITY HUMANS MAY NOT BE ORIGINAL ANIMAL EATERS AND THIS IS WHY SOME FEEL BAD WHEN CONSUMING ANIMALS so no need to JUSTIFY-DEFEND EATING ANIMALS AS IT MAY NOT OF BEEN WITHIN THE ORIGINAL PLAN. So lets find a better way.

NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA
[/COLOR]

reply to post by antonia

Hot dogs don't exist in natural form, neither does sausage. It's called cooking. I don't see the big deal. Humans learned how to do it. It's not hurting an vegans out there so who cares? The point is they can get B-12 without eating animal products.

More BS. This is not about cooking. and not about the meat industry. The point is that some people claim it is unethical to eat meat. I'm saying that from a natural standpoint we need meat, we always have. Therefore, it can not be unethical, even though the last few decades, people have the luxury to have completely meat free diets, which causes some people to suggest that we don't need meat, from a moral standpoint.

A hotdog is meat, and meat naturally has B-12 in it. We need B-12. cooking meat that naturally has B-12 in it, is not the same as producing B-12 and then adding it to the produced nutritional yeast that also is produced using and killing another lifeform.

B-12

It is the largest and most structurally complicated vitamin and can be produced industrially only through bacterial fermentation-synthesis.

See some people are opposed to eating meat saying it is not natural and morrally wrong.

These people need B-12 and proteines to survive.

B-12 naturally is only found in meat.

Conclusion, people need meat to survive, from a natural and evolutionairy standpoint.

Now, we live in a time where people can get supplements in order to survive without meat.

They argue that killing another lifeform is wrong, and that eating meat is not natural.

So they eat something to get proteines that has to be produced, it doesn't exist in a natural form. Off course, there are other alternatives for proteine, but not for B-12.

B-12, which is industrially produced, has to be added to the other produced food, which happens to be produced by letting another lifeform live in it, and then kill that lifeform.


After reading this, how can anyone argue that it is more natural, and more ethical to not eat meat, when meat provides what we need in it's natural, ready form?

If meat eaters didn't care you wouldn't see them arguing that vegans are pale and sickly. I've seen plenty of threads around here over the years calling vegans out. Don't play like it doesn't happen because it does.

This usually happens after a vegan has called them out and acted like he was above them.

Meat eaters have no problem with veganism cause they don't care if veggies are eaten.

Vegans do care that meat is eaten, obviously, otherwise they wouldn't go vegan. Meat eaters also eat veggies usually.

Are you going to argue against this clear psychological difference?

Neat TRICK!!! Make the argument about ethics, insert some ideas about how far ethical boundaries should stretch, and then ask meat eaters to defend their decision. Brilliant!! We should discuss the ethics of vegetarians, as they willingly and openly partake in the harvesting and consumption of dairy with little or no consideration for those who make use of the whole animal- meat eaters enable vegetarians continued consumption of dairy, as the meat eaters selflessly consume the biproduct. Vegans are by far the least conscious consumers of them all, oh they may tout a stellar awareness of their surroundings, but they have failed to comprehend how the growth of their precious vegetables only serves to leach the nutrients of the Earth. Unchecked animal populations rapidly increase erosion and further destabalize the viability of the food chain. Meat eaters have made the conscious decision to regulate animal populations for the good of us all, and they then made the ethical decision of not laying the surplus to waste. Perhaps vegans and vegetarians should thank a meat eater. These examples may seem whymsical and extreme, but they only serve to flush out the hypocracies of those who claim to have obtained a higher conscious.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by antonia

 

So they eat something to get proteines that has to be produced, it doesn't exist in a natural form. Off course, there are other alternatives for proteine, but not for B-12.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally missing the point here or you just can't understand. B-12 is present in nutritional yeast, therefore Vegans can get B-12 without eating meat. That is the original point of the post you replied to. You can nitpick all day about if it's natural or not, but the fact remains you can get B-12 from nutritional yeast. Furthermore, meat eating won't save you from being B-12 deficient. Many meat eaters are deficient in B-12 because of the rather poor quality of most of the meat sold in the western world. Most people should supplementing B-12 no matter what they eat.

reply to post by antonia

I'm not sure if you are intentionally missing the point here or you just can't understand. B-12 is present in nutritional yeast, therefore Vegans can get B-12 without eating meat.

Are you blind or are you ignoring this on purpose,

because nutritional yeast is often used by vegans, who usually need to supplement their diets with vitamin B12, there has been confusion about the source of the B12 in nutritional yeast. Although yeast is closer to animals than plants in their genome and metabolism, they cannot produce B12, which is only naturally produced by bacteria. Some brands of nutritional yeast, though not all, are fortified with vitamin B12. When fortified, the vitamin B12 is produced separately (commonly Cyanocobalamin) and then added to the yeast.[4][5][6]

B-12,

It is the largest and most structurally complicated vitamin and can be produced industrially only through bacterial fermentation-synthesis.

B-12 is not present in nutritional yeast. it is added to some of them.


B-12 has to be produced industrially and then it is added to the nutritional yeast, which also has to be produced.

On the other hand, B-12 is in meat naturally, and the meat exists like that in natural form.

How can you even argue these facts?

That is the original point of the post you replied to. You can nitpick all say about if it's natural or not, but the fact remains you can get B-12 from nutritional yeast. Furthermore, meat eating won't save you from being B-12 deficient. Many meat eaters are deficient in B-12 because of the rather poor quality of most of the meat sold in the western world. Most people should supplementing B-12 no matter what they eat.

First of I never argued that vegans could not get b-12 from nutr. yeast. I said it wasn't natural.

I already said you were right when you said that nutritional yeast is a natural product.

If you really think this discussion is about that single post in particular you are just trolling. You are right, it is a natural product, but it doesn't exist naturally like meat does.

The discussion is about wether eating meat is natrual and ethical, or not.

The fact that vegans need supplements that don't exist in nature, unlike meat, is proof enough that eating meat is completely natural, and therefore ethical.





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reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname


Except I was never arguing about what is ethical or natural. I was simply making a point to another poster. If you want to argue about what is ethical and natural you are going to have to do it by yourself. I've already stated I wasn't arguing about those issues.

As I stated earlier, I am simply addressing falsehood concerning Vegan diets. I'm not going to bother with ethical or natural arguments as I don't think they matter. Furthermore, arguing things are "natural" does argue they are "ethical". Animals eat their own young in nature, that's natural. I don't see people saying that's ok for humans to do. Ethics and nature are not exactly in union.

reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname

B-12 naturally is only found in meat.

B 12 is also naturally found in milk and eggs. So at least for ovo-lacto vegetarians this is not a problem.

I'm saying that from a natural standpoint we need meat, we always have. Therefore, it can not be unethical

Naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is natural does not make it ethical.

For the record, I am a meat-eater, and I dont think it is unethical.

reply to post by antonia

Except I was never arguing about what is ethical or natural. I was simply making a point to another poster. If you want to argue about what is ethical and natural you are going to have to do it by yourself. I've already stated I wasn't arguing about those issues.

I had already said you were right about it being a natural product 4 posts back, and implied it even before that.

So if this was your only point, I don't get why you had to make 3 posts after that coming up with all sorts of BS to show that eating meat is bad.

As I stated earlier, I am simply addressing falsehood concerning Vegan diets. I'm not going to bother with ethical or natural arguments as I don't think they matter. Furthermore, arguing things are "natural" does argue they are "ethical". Animals eat their own young in nature, that's natural. I don't see people saying that's ok for humans to do. Ethics and nature are not exactly in union.

You surely added a lot of stuff that can only be considered as anti meat eating reasoning. This thread is about the ethics isn't it. so if you continue arguiing with me after I had said you were right on your original point, it seems you are actually arguing ethics and why people shouldn't eat meat. Do you want me to qoute some of your statements?

It is natural in the way that we always ate meat, and we never had an alternative source for B-12 before. Therefore eating meat is natural, and must be ethical.

I never heard about humans eating their own young on a regular basis in human history. These BS comparisons don't fly.

I'm not saying we are animals.

reply to post by Maslo

B 12 is also naturally found in milk and eggs. So at least for ovo-lacto vegetarians this is not a problem.

Ok, semantics, animal products then. I never said anything about vegetarians though. Used the word vegans the whole time.

Naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is natural does not make it ethical. For the record, I am a meat-eater, and I dont think it is unethical.

What I said that we always ate it, thrived on it, and had no other sources for B-12.

So how can one claim it is unethical, if our entire existence sofar has been based on it.

Our entire existence would be unethical. Therefore, it cannot be unethical from our perspective.

It is not as simple as saying natural= ethical.

I didn't say that.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by antonia

 

It is natural in the way that we always ate meat, and we never had an alternative source for B-12 before. Therefore eating meat is natural, and must be ethical.

Again, that's a fallacy, just because is natural doesn't mean it's ethical. Ethics is an entirely human invention separated from nature.

The only way for most of you to argue that meat eating is ethical is from the standpoint of Animal Intelligence. Does the animal know it suffers? You can't argue health because it's been shown vegetarians live longer than meat eaters (not vegans though, they actually don't live as long as vegetarians), you can't argue B-12 because it's already been shown you don't have to eat meat to get that. So you are only left with one avenue. I suggest you take that one if you want to prove eating meat is ethical.

As a general rule, I don't think it's unethical. I think the way we raise animals for meat is unethical and sheer amount we eat is unethical. Why? Because it puts people at risk. Factory Farming leads to real illness in human beings and the amount of meat most westerners eat puts their health at risk. It's also a waste of resources. There is absolutely no one way 7 billion people can eat the western meat heavy diet.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie

Calling All Carnivores Tell Us Why It’s Ethical to Eat Meat

Well now, being that humans are omnivores, I had to find a genuine carnivore for a good reply and after giving it some thought, I found one.

Please meet our German Wirehair, Maya. She has a few thoughts to offer on eating meat...

Meat is good. meat has been eaten by many and various creatures since the dawn of what you call, time.
Meat is good. It conveys nutrition to the body. I like meat.
Meat is good. I do not like sticks and weeds. You may eat them as you choose. I choose not.
Meat is good. Please do not force your view of nutrition on the rest of us.

Woof woof! (Not-translated for purpose of ATS T&C)

reply to post by antonia


Such BS. If we hadn't eaten meat we would not be where we are today.

We always needed meat to survive, and we basically still do.

The only way you can argue that it is not ethical is to say that every animal we eat is worth more than the life of a human being. Is that your reasoning? If it is you shouldn't even be allowed to discuss ethics.

Just because it is possible to get supplements in the last decades it has become possible for some to live without meat.

This does not justify claiming that eating meat is unethical, cause you are cheating nature.

The whole foodchain is based on one organism eating the other, it's the way of nature, ther is nothing unethical about it.

Every organism dies sometimes so who cares.

Ethics is an entirely human invention separated from nature.

Exactly, therefore it shouldn't interfere with natural processes.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by antonia

 

Such BS. If we hadn't eaten meat we would not be where we are today.

So, you've got some extra planets laying around we can use to raise all these animals to feed 7 billion people with?

We always needed meat to survive, and we basically still do.

Says who? There are plenty people who don't eat meat who are surviving. Heck, go to India. Most of them are vegetarians and they survive.

The only way you can argue that it is not ethical is to say that every animal we eat is worth more than the life of a human being. Is that your reasoning? If it is you shouldn't even be allowed to discuss ethics.

I didn't say eating meat was unethical. I'm going to chalk this up to you not reading everything I post.

Just because it is possible to get supplements in the last decades it has become possible for some to live without meat.

This does not justify claiming that eating meat is unethical, cause you are cheating nature.

I didn't say that makes eating meat unethical.

reply to post by antonia


We will grow our meat in the future, we already have grown it.
I just hope it tastes as good as the real thing.

Originally posted by QQXXw

Originally posted by boymonkey74
If the animals did not want to be eaten they would evolve to taste nasty

and if we did stop eating meat how many cows etc would there be? not many apart from zoos

Good thread S&F.

Do you agree with eating dolphins? they sure taste good don't they, perhaps, if humans were as delicious and nutritious as dolphins, we would be eating each other and would have never evolved past primitive society

edit on 5-5-2012 by QQXXw because: (no reason given)

i thought we taste like pig, thats what i was told,and the best bit is the fleshy pad
at the base of the thumb,not that i have had human flesh that i know of

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by antonia

 

We will grow our meat in the future, we already have grown it.
I just hope it tastes as good as the real thing.

This tends to be my point of view as well. It remains to be seen if people would actually buy it though. As for myself, I try not to eat as much meat simply because I don't digest it well. I get sluggish if I est it so I only eat it a few times a week.

www.bbc.co.uk...
I do think going forward this is the best solution to the environmental problems caused by meat production as it's unrealistic to demand people not eat it at all.

I'm shocked at the ignorance running rampant in this thread.. Seriously vegans keep your bullcrap beliefs to yourself. I'm now convinced veganism and liberalism are mental disorders.. Probably the same mental defect effects both liberals and vegans because almost all vegans are liberals as well.. You act like you have the key to ultimate morality and you raise yourselves up on pedestals as if any of us actually give a crap.. GO EAT YOUR LETTUCE I don't care. Just stop trying to tell everyone else they're wrong while parading around as if you're so special for eating your vegetables..

I hate when one of my vegan friends posts some vegan dish they're eating. For example a friend posted a picture of a vegan pizza. It looked like absolute garbage you can't even call it pizza. How are you going to call something pizza with no cheese on it?? It was a pizza crust with tomato sauce and about 20lbs of vegetables on top.. That's not pizza..


As for the vegan attack on how bad meat is processed and injected with hormones and antibiotics, you should take a look at your own products. Ever been down the vegan food isle at wholefoods?? Stuff is MUCH worse for you than meat. All the fake cheeses etc.. There's more processed unnatural crap put into those products than a burger at McDonalds..

If we did not live in modern times vegans would not last as long as meat eaters.

reply to post by antonia

So, you've got some extra planets laying around we can use to raise all these animals to feed 7 billion people with?

The problem is overpoulation, not the concept of eating meat.

Says who? There are plenty people who don't eat meat who are surviving. Heck, go to India. Most of them are vegetarians and they survive.

Yes, vegetarians, so they still use animal products. You know I was talking about vegans. Good for you you found a semantics loophole.

I didn't say eating meat was unethical. I'm going to chalk this up to you not reading everything I post.

I used "you" in the general form. That's why I asked if that was your reasoning after that sentence. I'll chalk it up to bad reading comprehension. Btw, the way you have presented yourself in this thread sure points towards you being against eating meat. If you say that is not case, expect me to qoute you.

I didn't say that makes eating meat unethical.

Ok, I didn't say I was talking about you.

You sure seem like a flip flopping troll.

You first claim you had only one particular point, then you go on a rant saying how bad meat is, than you are saying that meateaters always bully vegans, then you go along with my on topic statements about the ethical question, seemingly taking an opposite standpoint, then you try to suggest that supplements are as natural as meat itself, and then in the end you suddenly say you never even suggested that you find eating meat unethical.

Technically you didn't, but if I read back our entire discussion you seem like a bit of a troll.

Originally posted by libertytoall
I'm shocked at the ignorance running rampant in this thread.. Seriously vegans keep your bullcrap beliefs to yourself. I'm now convinced veganism and liberalism are mental disorders

I'm a vegetarian and a socialist I'm not trying to push off my desires on you. I would like to either have the US split into 2 different countries or move to Sweden. The 1st isn't going to happen. The 2nd isn't going to happen because my GF doesn't like the cold. Honestly, I think liberals and conservatives should stay away from each other. I've had horrible experiences with conservatives, or at least people pretending to be conservative. The disdain between the 2 groups can only lead to sorrow.