Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

Originally posted by doobydoll
So, if an uninsured driver STILL has to pay damages and/or medical bills when they cause an accident, then why are insured drivers required to buy extra cover in the event of an uninsured driver hitting you?

Boom, logic bomb.

What do you think is the first step of separation from reliance?

Auto-Insurance should be the catalyst for this conversation, not the focus. The focus is, 'How do you stop participating?'

Originally posted by doobydoll
So, if an uninsured driver STILL has to pay damages and/or medical bills when they cause an accident, then why are insured drivers required to buy extra cover in the event of an uninsured driver hitting you?

Because sometimes that uninsured driver won't pay, or can't pay, and they might end up sitting in jail for lack of being able to pay.

If you end up with medical bills, and/or need a new vehicle, you can't wait for the other uninsured driver to get around to eventually paying (if they ever do).

Medical bills sometimes end up being in the millions....

reply to post by sirric


Thanks for the Advice. I had been using education as my means for a way out. I've got two AA degree's working on my BA, hopefully going to get my MBA or a law degree when I finished. I thought that avoiding unnecessary payments might be a better first step. Moving out of state greatly increases my education bills for, I think, 5 years(?). Hopefully working in tandem with these two steps might be a good goal, I just can't afford that atm.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance

Auto-Insurance should be the catalyst for this conversation, not the focus. The focus is, 'How do you stop participating?'

Depends on where you live.
Where I live, very rural, I could get away with driving to neighbour's houses, only because I would never get caught. It's all rural grid roads. With no cops living nearby. But if I had to get gas, or go into town for any reason, like for food, I couldn't.

Up here, no insurance means no driving.
Or probable jail if caught driving.

I'd rather participate in insurance, no matter how much of a fraudulent enterprise, then live in jail

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


I was in an accident a couple months ago and yes insurance is a complete waste esp when they can refuse it when it comes to injury insurance, PIP.

I have PIP (personal injury protection) and it's required by Florida law, it's the only insurance you need. I pay $118 a month just for that which is the lowest coverage you can get.

After my accident I was referred to a couple specialists for my back, knee and neck, well all the doctors I called wouldn't take my PIP. They said it wasn't sufficient enough and that i had to have personal insurance as well. I was extremely upset since I didn't cause the accident! A car crossed the median in the opposite direction and hit ME head on! It was really frustrating to be hung up and basically treated like Im some POS because I dont have insurance. I was in tears for weeks over it.

I felt like I was some low life because that is how they treat you without insurance! I even feel the hospital I was taken to didn't do their job because I had no health insurance. They didn't do anything you would think they would do with a head on accident. They only X rayed my stomach even though my knee was swollen and bruising already. I complained about my neck and back the entire time! They had me in a neck brace and on a stretcher for my back but as soon as they found out I only had PIP I'm sure that is when they said "oh no insurance, well she is fine." I say this because I went to the same hospital a few yrs back when i was having a HUGE allergic reaction to a dog and they refused to see me unless I had 400 dollars cash up front! I wasn't too keen on going to that hospital after my accident and I even remember telling them on the stretcher i have no insurance I dont want to go there they won't see me. The paramedic said they have to cause I came in via an accident. Yea they have to see you but it doesn't mean they have to treat you like they should. I just felt like they didn't care!

It really irks me because I pay into this insurance every month yet when i actually needed it, the first time in my life at 33, they flat out refuse to take it!? It's insurance and there is 20k there for coverage! I know I didn't need that much work done, it's just the fact that I have to have this insurance yet when I need it doctors can refuse it as not sufficient enough?!

I finally found a doctor who would take me and that was this past week, almost 2mths after my accident. I have to have physical therapy on my neck and an MRI done on my knee. The doctor was telling me why they dont like to take PIP, which to me is a complete crock! If you go into the medical field it should be about helping people NOT money!

I really hate making that insurance payment now because as I have learned it is completely useless! I basically had to raise hell to get someone to see me. I had two offices HANG UP on me saying "oh we don't take PIP" then click! My insurance rep said it's illegal for them to refuse the insurance so I am definitely checking that out. She also told me that they can't call and make appointments for you but they can be on the phone in a three way call to let the doctors know there is plenty of money there. I couldnt get ONE doctor to even let me get to that point. I was shut down as soon as I said I only had PIP.

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by doobydoll
So, if an uninsured driver STILL has to pay damages and/or medical bills when they cause an accident, then why are insured drivers required to buy extra cover in the event of an uninsured driver hitting you?

Because sometimes that uninsured driver won't pay, or can't pay, and they might end up sitting in jail for lack of being able to pay.

If you end up with medical bills, and/or need a new vehicle, you can't wait for the other uninsured driver to get around to eventually paying (if they ever do).

Medical bills sometimes end up being in the millions....

I'm not an accountant, and have never been affiliated with a business that handles claims or medical expenses. However, I'm going out on a limb to say that ,"It's safe to assume, that the medical costs are bloated, and others would argue that the cost of such medical expenses would also fall in line with the ponzi-scheme system." I'm not saying don't deny people healthcare, but I also feel that my Auto-insurance is still f*****g me simply because of a hypothetical scenario I feel competent enough to avoid. I feel that if there was a rigorous aptitude test for drivers to show their ability to remain self-aware on the road ways that certain costs should be avoidable.

reply to post by snowspirit


I do not want to participate with fraudulent enterprises, where do I start with the given circumstances? I wish I had my own land and lived in a rural location where I could be primarily self-sustained. That is not a option for me atm, I'm trying to actively change that. I'm looking for realistic ways of doing so. A loop-hole, a bypass, a brief lapse disconnected from-but still involved with, anything to get the ball rolling.

SO far I've heard a few good answers, yet, nothing so apparent that I can run out and do something about it today.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


The only way out is the way through. You cannot just temporarily extract yourself from the system. Well, I suppose you could, but why would you? In order to extract yourself from the system, you must be willing to stand tall and muster more courage than any one person should ever have to. You must be willing to know the law, and even - unfortunately - be willing to learn legalese somewhat, in order to make this extraction work. You must revoke any and all signatures that were signed under duress and based upon fraud.

The law of estoppel comes into play here so you must revoke all signatures with government and be willing to live with the consequences of that decision. When I opened up this Pandora's Box of knowledge regarding law and legality and tyranny and freedom, I was no where near in any financial position to deal with the consequences of my subsequent actions. Of course, I didn't pick a fight with the government, those clowns picked the fight with me, so ready or not, I was knee deep in it. There are others who I know who are and were in a much better financial situation than I and have been able to do the same as I have done with far less pain and suffering. Even so, they suffer too.

What we must do is respectfully decline to acquiesce to their system. All closed systems tend towards entropy. The system, from the DMV, to a multitude of other government schemes, is demonstrably a closed system and it is way past entropic. Another word for entropy is chaos. Can you the see chaos around you?

What I am suggesting requires a fortitude that will often times just make you wonder where the hell such fortitude would come from, and to be perfectly honest, if this clown government actually offered me some sort of equitable term of surrender, I just might surrender! No equitable terms of surrender have been offered to me, so I keep fighting. Even if those terms of surrender were offered, depending upon the timing, I may not surrender.

If and when I finally begin to flourish and prosper, the idea of surrendering will become unthinkable. What do I suggest? I suggest you flourish and prosper. If you can do this by working within their system, I would never hold that against you or anyone else. If you cannot flourish and prosper by working within their system, then get out of it, and take the pain, accept the suffering and do what you must to flourish and prosper!

“It's not that I don't suffer, it's that I know the unimportance of suffering, I know that pain is to be fought and thrown aside, not to be accepted as part of one's soul and as a permanent scar across one's view of existence. Don't feel sorry for me. It was gone right then.”

~John Galt~

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Damn, you really got the short end of the stick. Thanks for telling your story, it helps add to the point that insurance is a waste of time. What could you see yourself doing as an alternative, to remove yourself from this reliance on insurance that you never see anything from?

Did you at least get a repaired/new car??? was it totaled?

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


.....You got me cracking up here, sorry!!

Well my "shill like behavior" stems from getting ripped off daily for everything, and you are only complaining about something YOU can help!!

How are you to avoid taxes? Can't do it right??

How to avoid being stopped by cops......DRIVE PROPERLY....Simple fix

I have been pulled over 6 times in 5 months out of state and lost my license for a year....

I have been pulled over for speeding 6 times in my own state since I started driving.....

I guess the difference is, I take responsibility for my idiot actions, perhaps you should do the same!

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


Simple. If you don't want to carry insurance, don't do it. You wouldn't be the first one. You won't be able to renew your plates or registration, or get your vehicle inspected, but you wouldn't be paying for insurance. Just don't get pulled over.

Oh, and I don't know where you live, but for damn sure, don't cause an accident that I or my family is involved in. Then you will wish you had kept the insurance. Legally speaking, I would make sure your life situation did not improve for many, many years.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance

Auto-Insurance should be the catalyst for this conversation, not the focus. The focus is, 'How do you stop participating?'

Ooh I DO beg your pardon!

The only way to stop participating is to hoof it, or acquire a bicycle. Or get yourself a 'beast of burden' and ride into town or wherever.

There's your answer.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I most certainly see the chaos. The only reason I'd seek temporary extraction, is to provide a foundation for a later permanent extraction. If I could sell out, I would, in a heart beat, and the first chance I had, I'd be gone.

I don't find my self prospering inside this system, but like you said, outside of the system may be far worse. Although this is the current case, I can see a time that may come where this isn't the case, and If I could start taking steps in that direction now, I will.

So to forgo the inevitable suffering I'll face on my path to.... 'renewal', I need to be semi-well funded. I also see this going poorly for an individual. Me, as a single entity, really hold no power in this world. I see it working under the circumstances of mass exodus. Having a large portion, say 10% of the US population, simultaneously revoking all acknowledgement of government authority in secession.

So let's say we use Obama's strategy and use mass 'penny donations' or crowd funding to back the cause. Say we use that money to accurately draft a legal document that forgoes each individual signature and voids them as a whole and denies any retaliatory actions taken by the government. From there set a viable date for people to get their affairs in order, and create a sustainable plan. and that's as far as I can think about it, I don't really know what would come next except for more chaos. I mean it's not like there is some unclaimed land upon this earth we could all go to, the major thing that comes to mind would be claiming a portion of US. I just don't see this as being realistic and is purely speculative, but it's a start.

What kind of things back fired on you? What where some of the consequences. (I understand if you have a need to be vague). Anything else I can get from your intellectual property would be helpful for me, and maybe for others.

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
reply to post by mblahnikluver

 

Damn, you really got the short end of the stick. Thanks for telling your story, it helps add to the point that insurance is a waste of time. What could you see yourself doing as an alternative, to remove yourself from this reliance on insurance that you never see anything from?

Did you at least get a repaired/new car??? was it totaled?

I wasn't in my car. I was in my fiancees which was insured but totaled as a result of the accident. I got hit head on. They got a pay out for the car. Now if I were in my car, which isn't covered, I would have been screwed! In Florida you are only required to have PIP, you dont have to insure the car, it's not required. I can't afford full coverage on my car. It's 200 bucks a month for full coverage. I dont make that much money to afford full coverage. In a sense it was a blessing I wasn't in my car, the damage to me would have been worse because of how my car is built compared to what I was in when the accident happened. I now have anxiety when I drive and I dont like driving my car or any car for that matter. If I dont have to go out I stay home. I use to be out and about all the time...This accident really messed with me mentally.

I dont even know what happened to the kid who hit me. He was from out of state and was drinking and UNDERAGE! He shouldn't have been driving period. He kept changing his story on how many drinks he had and the only reason I heard it is because they put us in the ambulance TOGETHER! I was like wth I dont want to ride with the idiot who hit me all the while listening to him slur his words and change his story.

As far as any treatment I have to receive that will be dealt with through a settlement. I called a lawyers office but I didnt like how they wanted me to sign a 40 page document without even speaking to a lawyer. I told the guy that the lawyer in his own commercials tells you not to sign anything without a lawyer present! The person they send is an investigator and he/she can't give legal advice yet they wanted me to sign a contract without speaking to lawyer? I said no thank you, I'll deal with it myself. So far Progressive has been awesome! I don't have any complaints just yet...we will see what happens when it's settlement time. I refuse to pay anything out of pocket for this accident. I was on my way to my friends to start a new job the next day and BAM next thing I know I'm in the ER....

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

.....You got me cracking up here, sorry!!

Well my "shill like behavior" stems from getting ripped off daily for everything, and you are only complaining about something YOU can help!!

How are you to avoid taxes? Can't do it right??

How to avoid being stopped by cops......DRIVE PROPERLY....Simple fix

I have been pulled over 6 times in 5 months out of state and lost my license for a year....

I have been pulled over for speeding 6 times in my own state since I started driving.....

I guess the difference is, I take responsibility for my idiot actions, perhaps you should do the same!

Ahh, had to go into the book and look for another tactic did you? I guess that's why it took you so long to write..... 7 lines. I can admit to my incoherence of certain things. I take accountability, again this is not the subject, QUIT TRYING TO DERAIL THE TOPIC AT HAND. Your actions make you look more and more like a shill. You propose solutions that I see as the problem in the first place, and like many other like minded people on this website and else where, we are tired of you simplistic, dumbed down answer to complex and irrevocably self-destructive problems. Laugh off whatever you need to, it makes this topic no less pertinent and realistic. If this is something you can laugh at, you have issues, and stop trying to empathize with me... I SEE THROUGH YOU. Your textbook shill-like behavior is what is truly laughable... you may want to stop before you blow your cover. Your are here to argue not to add to the discussion. Now go make a new account.

In the UK I have watched the police chase docs from the UK and it really does my head in when a stolen car is stopped but the driver runs away leaving three of his/her associates, the three because they wasn't driving get away with been charged with stealing the car.........why they all had got into the car !!!!!

The most galling one is this and names here are used just to portray the scenario.....Crim was stopped by police who found out Crim was driving a car with no tax, no insurance and no licence........Crim was banned from driving for 5 yrs because of earlier offences and been banned from driving on three other occasions........!!!!!!

If the first or second ban didn't work why give the 3rd or 4th ban !!!!!!

Insurance is just that..........not for us but the insurance companies

Wolfie

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


We got into this mess individually, and we will have to get out it individually. That is not to say that we cannot forge alliances and rely upon each other to make this battle for freedom stronger, but it is folly to think that we can somehow forge some sort of legislative act that undoes all this chaos.

In terms of "backfire", I have made missteps, and I have had victories. I just had no money when I walked away from being a statutorily defined employee and have had to struggle mightily just to survive now that I operate outside of the system. It has only been about four years, however, since I've done that, so I suspect that in time, hopefully sooner than later, I will be on my way down the road of flourishing and prospering. At the moment I will just have to content myself that many members in this site believe I am some fat cat rich asshole shill "1%er". As they say; "seeing is believing".

reply to post by Wolfie_UK


Here in America, when you go to the 3rd ban, you'd be put in jail, for 30 days minimum, more for l8r offences.

Do you make enough money out of the sculptures to justify having the truck?
If you make more than your insurance then keep it, if not get rid and get a crappy compact.
Then your fuel bill will be reduced dramaticly too.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Well, I might not have many useful legal skills, but I've got oodles of other skills. Consider me an ally. I want to prosper, but not like this, with all this.... chaos.

[edit] also, were we not born into these agreements? at least on some scale, maybe not concerning agreements with DMV and the like, but certainly under the terms of the 'Consent of the Governed'.

Are you still within National Border's but off the grid? Or are you now in a foreign country with a renounced citizenship?