Scary OWS video... is this a glimpse of the future?

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Riots come and go, it is nothing new. It's as much of a glimpse of the future as it is the past.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

You aren't protesting. Your fighting. Occupy doesn't even play at pickets and signs anymore. All real pretense of peaceful protest has pretty well been dropped. Kudos for honesty there, since I was hearing what we're watching long before Occupy was willing ot say or do it publicly.

Not true, Occupy Cleveland and many other cities are peaceful and are still protesting.

edit on 4-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

That's a good point. I suppose it's only because this video was somewhat violent that we're all here even discussing it. Post a video of the peaceful (read: uneventful) Cleveland protests and see how much discussion ensues!

I find the whole topic quite conflicting, but important to ponder

reply to post by RealSpoke

I'm not a part of the occupy movement so you can adress that to someone who is.

I did...and you chimed in!

Also, Ted Bundy is an idividual, occupy is a diverse group of people. You cannot generalize millions of people off the actions of a few. If you went with that logic then all Tea Partiers step on women's heads. It's rather childish logic.

Do you have a video of the Tea Party stepping on someone’s head?? Was it the entire Tea Party or one guy?

Last I checked there were a million+ Tea Partiers in DC without a single violent crime. Can OWS claim that record??





Your argument is still weak…

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Some day those bullets aren't going to be rubber.

You will have brought it upon yourselves.

Originally posted by Fishticon84
The police ARE the problem.
I've seen it first hand. I've seen protestors being all calm and whatever and then the cops come in making a whole bunch of noise and instigating them.
I've seen it MANY times.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Police are the source of most of these violent calamities. The protesters hardly ever get violent until the police show up and stir up problems. I've seen it so many times. I for one have never seen these protesters act violent towards each other. Don't bother calling me a hippie, because I'm not. I've just seen so many cops incite unnecessary violence in my lifetime, including one of my friends getting punched in the face by a cop when he was 13. One thing that does make me happy is to see that there are way less police apologists than there used to be. More and more people are starting to see them for what they really are, especially since some of those absurd tasering incidents (Robert Dziekański, anyone?)

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

hey man, just lookin over your post, you are the reason we have police officers.
In all of your rhetoric you mention killing but never do you mention dying for any cause,

dying is easy
why should i allow myself to be killed or abused?
it's harder to live for a cause than dying for one

so which captain america is that in your avy?
the 1950's one?

Originally posted by Brandon88
reply to post by seabag

 

I would classify that sign those two were holding as fighting words/hate speech, so no they wouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment.

Words which would likely make the person whom they are addressed commit an act of violence. Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment. Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942).

Inflammatory words that are either injurious by themselves or might cause the hearer to immediately retaliate or breach the peace. Use of such words is not necessarily protected "free speech" under the First Amendment. If the hearer is prosecuted for assault, claiming fighting words may establish mitigating circumstances.

edit on 4-5-2012 by Brandon88 because: (no reason given)

Slippery slope right there my friend..

What part of their sign would you deem "hate speech" ??

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

Well, in terms of violence, when was the last time a super-minority of the population became violent and brought change beyond their own imprisonment in the end? I know Occupy folks will take issue with the Super-Minority term to describe the movement, but it's accurate. Last October, Tel Aviv Israel saw 400,000 (no typo) people on the streets and in protest. Were people being beaten by the cops? Rights violated? Folks starving? no....

400,000 people went to the streets in Tel Aviv because the "rent was too damn high", to quote a rather colorful candidate from New York last cycle. Now, the highest total I know of for Occupy to date was last year and at the end of the season when a march from Zuccotti Park dove tailed into a Union protest and they both became a single group for a few hours. As I recall, that was in excess of 30,000 people for that single group, at once. That's about the all time record..and it took the addition of another protest in progress. (This is ONE group, ONE place, ONE contiguous protest......multiple events in the same city don't count. That wasn't Cairo, Tel Aviv or Tunisia)

When Occupy can stand up 10,000 or 50,000 people on one of their action days, at each major city location, then I will change my tune entirely and look upon the movement with a whole new sense of respect. Occupy will have arrived, and on it's way to becoming a force for change. Right now though? They're a rather poor and violent variant of the 1960's movements and in my view, trying to replicate them.


- Kent State was a tragedy. An absolute tragedy. I wasn't alive then and wouldn't be for another few years but I've read as much as anyone who wasn't. I can't honestly say I can relate to the mindsets, attitudes, perceptions or events of that time. I'm honest on that. Those little things are EVERYTHING, in my take, for how that came to happen. Why Kent State when the People's Park Massacre back in the Bay area didn't produce anything like the same coverage or reaction? Who knows...but there is one enormous difference.

This isn't 1970 and it sure isn't over the Vietnam War. The people at Kent State couldn't have known people would die that day and had no reason to really suspect it from what I've read. Previous U.S. protests hadn't killed anyone like that..despite some awfully hard effort at times. So why think anyone walking onto the grass that day wouldn't leave? For Occupy however, every member knows the history, they know the opposition and tactics or have NO excuse for not knowing by now and every member of Occupy MUST know the other side here is absolutely capable of killing.

Ask Scott Olsen about the danger here.

THAT is the difference. The kids at Kent State didn't know better. Occupy absolutely does. Kent State came from folks, I believe, were trying to end a war and save lives...not fight the National Guard and get hurt or killed. Occupy *IS* going out, set to fight, every night....again

One was a tragedy, the other is inevitable.

Just give thought to whose handling that notification part. That wasn't a dig or point of argument. I thought before I wrote that and considered...Last October..would I have stood at the door of a parent for a member of the camp who may have been killed protesting? My answer? Yes and in my case as part of the safety committee, I'd have considered it my job....and so I said what I did.

I hope groups do consider it and handle the issue honorably and straight down the middle when it eventually comes.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

Some day those bullets aren't going to be rubber.

You will have brought it upon yourselves.

LOL

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by seabag

 

I'm not a part of the occupy movement so you can adress that to someone who is.

another person assuming

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

hey man, just lookin over your post, you are the reason we have police officers.
In all of your rhetoric you mention killing but never do you mention dying for any cause,

dying is easy
why should i allow myself to be killed or abused?
it's harder to live for a cause than dying for one

so which captain america is that in your avy?
the 1950's one?

If you not willing to die for a cause your life cannot stand for anything...
its not just me talking, its what built this Nation.
It takes no courage to raise hell and be a Civil Disobedient.
Tell me what is the change hoped to bring about.
Can you define it. Can you spell it.
What is the plan should these Flash Mobs win?
OWS is empty

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I didn't THINK SO!

What is your justification for the crimes comitted by OWS? Do you want my money? Do you want free college?

Is it just a chance to be violent with a big audience??

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


see my previous reply
also check my profile for a link to a book called transit

nor do i believe in the effectiveness of mass protests
not that i'm against people protesting

nazis can march on parade and hold their heads up high, [hell, according to a recent thread they can lobby now]
but these kids aren't allowed to

so let me get this straight you're against ows now
because you became disappointed and think they can't win?

or did you allow yourself to be intimidated and switched sides?
[not saying i think they're going anywhere myself]

reply to post by bacci0909


The part right above NYC ICE that says "no tresspassing" the message is direct and clear. They are inciting an attack/violence against them and if an attack resulted, which aggression did occur as was the signs intent they would have no legal grounds to defend themselves and wouldn't be able to claim 1st amendment rights.

I fear that things have already gone too far for the people to back down. If the government does not respond to what the people are asking for, the government will get the uprising they are asking for. Those to suffer immediately are our law enforcement personnel. Then our military. All throughout our citizens. Ultimately, those responsible and their children. This is like watching monkeys fighting. So sad.

reply to post by seabag


what crimes are those?
the ones committed by your bankster idols?
the ones committed by their lapdogs in the government?
the ones committed by undercover *COUGH* black bloc "anarchists"?

rattle your chains all you want to

liberty can be frightening for some

but hey, if you and fifties cap are not going to read my posts
and see only what you want to see, there's no point in wasting time with you

your money?
that's rich.

it's not yours if it can be taken away or made worthless

why don't you organize your fellow teabaggers and accomplish something and show ows how it's done?
but no you'd rather piss champagne on them from a balcony

seriously, get help for your [now raving] paranoia

do not check my profile you might crap yourself

and blame me

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Well who is assuming stuff then?

reply to post by rebellender


change is only possible on the physical plane

and the best revenge is living well

It takes no courage to raise hell and be a Civil Disobedient.

lol
tell it to ghandhi
and MLK

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

so let me get this straight you're against ows now
because you became disappointed and think they can't win?

or did you allow yourself to be intimidated and switched sides?
[not saying i think they're going anywhere myself]

(sigh) I may type very quickly, but I don't necessarily think through a large post as casually as your reply was tossed out. I'd hoped for a bit more than that. You raised some points and this topic is anything but funny or a game. People almost got killed last year and we're already off to a bang...with the season barely starting.


Now, I am against OWS specifically and Occupy in general for a number of reasons. Some, I'll never get into because people at Occupy STL don't need some dirty laundry made public for my personal political point. I'll say my feelings for the folks I left behind there in the Fall are very mixed....and depending on circumstance, a call could still find me a mere 3 hours away from being back with them. I can't say I didn't bond tightly with a few people and Occupy ARE NOT ALL BAD by any means. I've never said they were.


What I will get into at ATS is open enough...at least many people are well aware of the situations. Nothing secret. While with them for part of that month, I volunteered with safety committee. In the role, I experienced a great deal and saw the very best....and worst...of Occupy. Not JUST our camp, either. Even then, communication existed. lol...

Anyway... The total I'll answer anything about would come to 4 rapes, once of them a chronic case with a documented predatory offender, 4 major disturbances where cops were CALLED by us to take out a piece of trash (WE had good working relations with St Louis Police Department thanks to a certain Commander up there. They aren't ALL bad), Drunken fights were every night, and dope dealing was...well.. not our fault, but I felt we could have discouraged it a WHOLE lot more than we did. Later, it helped tear the group apart through the Winter. Being correct sucks sometimes. The rapes....were never reported and the victims were counseled, talked to, hand held, comforted and gal pal'ed to death until...all was good and ALMOST everyone could hug again. Only 2 of the 4 cases had the offender removed....and only 1 of those was by Occupy personally. They allowed that one back after I left.

You see the pattern here??? I don't blame Occupy for much of that in STARTING. Occupy chose the roughest neighborhoods that exist in some of these cities. Problems are par for the course. I blame them for everything where it CONTINUED. I watched the same thing, to various degrees in other camps around the nation last Fall. Some, while I was in camp myself. Others from my multi-screen set up at home and monitoring Livestream feeds..

Perhaps you'll read this one.. Perhaps not.. but you made a couple accusations there about my integrity and character, as I read that. The least I can do is answer....since it is all relevant to the topic and thread and how Occupy worked last Fall...and to my knowledge in personal contact with Occupy folks now...still operates.

reply to post by seabag

I did...and you chimed in!

No, the comment was directed towards this;

OWN IT!! EMBRACE YOUR MOVEMENT! It is what it is regardless how many time you deny it!

when I have nothing to do with the occupy movement nor claimed to.

Do you have a video of the Tea Party stepping on someone’s head?? Was it the entire Tea Party or one guy?

So do you have a video of every single OWS or even the majority being violent? No. See how your logic works?

Last I checked there were a million+ Tea Partiers in DC without a single violent crime. Can OWS claim that record??

Older people are a lot less emotionally reactive, this means they statistically create less violent crime . They are less likely to be antagonized by the police and less susceptible to agent provacateruing. As you can see in the former video I posted, it's not like they are incapable of being violent. The whole point is not to generalize a whole group on the actions of a few.

Tell me what OWS has accomplished over the past 12 months…I’ll wait.

Drew attention to the huge wealth gap, inspired political activism in the youth, Bank change day,,,

As of November 5th, the Credit Union National Association reports that 650,000 consumers have joined credit unions across the nation, a reaction to increasing fees imposed by big banks.

matadornetwork.com...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Perhaps you'll read this one.. Perhaps not.. but you made a couple accusations there about my integrity and character, as I read that.

yes i did, i've come to expect much better from your posts and was seriously put out by some of them here.
apologies tendered. though i will be alert for any backsliding into sheeple behavior

as for your reasons for being against

there you have it :
why mass protests and civil disobedience no longer work
they are open to infiltration and subversion from within
and the state and its minions having 50+ years to practice have it down to a science.

rapist[s] should have been crippled from the waist down
if not set on fire.

"oh i'm sorry your honor but that guy raped a friend of mine/fellow protester
i had no idea he was an undercover cop trying to make the movement look bad with the cooperation
of other infiltrators. umm can someone tell me why undercover cops are raping people again? "

and am not saying it was so in your case, but the tale you tell means something seriously fishy is up here

tell me Wrabbit, why would a movement claiming to fight for the peoples rights do such a thing?

did they think it could be covered up and nobody would find out?
wouldn't that make some folks abandon the movement and talk?
don't you see how this works in terms of public image?

the fact that you're keeping stuff to yourself means you have doubts

it's 3am here and while i don't have a massa to report to tomorrow[today],[am a self employed computer repairman/pirate installer/jailbreaker for hire] i tend to oversleep and need to have a desktop which refuses to install it's ethernet driver
and i need to have it ready by 3 pm today

hopefully you'll consider this a more substantial post

though sometimes a one-liner is apropos
and sometimes silence is the best answer

so lets continue this "tomorrow"

Several folks are mentioning the fact there were a large number of peaceful and quiet protests last year. I wanted to chime in...and phooey if some don't like what I have to say on this but it's the truth and I saw that truth night after night for almost 3 months on the Livestreams....I wasn't the only one here watching so much all the time, and I'm surprised others aren't joining in these threads.


There absolutely WERE peaceful protests. MOST of them...were peaceful and quiet, in fact. At one point, I believe every state had a full time Occupation camp and most had several 24/7 Occupations. The numbers, at one point, were really shocking and exciting. Places like Nashville, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Austin, Albuquerque, Cleveland to name JUST a few. Absolutely true. ......and who watched Livestreams and didn't just LOVE Captain Jack in Nashville. Those who watched Occupy know who that is..and I still want to see that guy get signed. I'd buy a CD from him. There are your peaceful examples, and they were the MAJORITY. I agree. ........peaceful isn't crime free. It's violent protest free.


Now... oops.... We also had Atlanta, New York, Oakland, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle (toward the end), Richmond and Orlando. Yikes! Where'd all that peace go? Right down the crapper is where. To varying degrees, folks in those cities either started with the purpose of hunting a fight rather than a picket line.....or they got that way in a serious way by end of season.

Unfortunately, Tulsa Oklahoma wasn't setting national policy by influence. New York was. Oakland was handling the Public Relations side, it would seem......and that went as well as a nuclear bomb at a peace rally.


The majority are why I and others at ATS have said how great it would be for Occupy and TPM to join and move as one. Among the MAJORITY...where peaceful protest was honestly the rule.....it would bring change. The battlefield camps are why I've also said that joining has to be the normal people..and those hot head militants need dumped at the door.