Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

You can interpret a lot of things as hate. The fact schools don't teach religion can be called hate too...educational discrimination. But see, there's a choice of how to view it.

Always a choice.

No public school should be teaching religion.

Belief - non-belief is personal and individual. That is why you Choose which church to go to.

That was a ludicrious point! Where in allowing a person to wear a shirt, voicing thier beliefs/opinions, does it become qualified as the school teach ing religion?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Your opinion is not fact...it is an opinion, as you have admitted.

Therefore, it cannot be argued as justification, since the actual perpetrator did not admit it.

Originally posted by Malynn
"Under God" is from the Pledge of Allegience which was written by a Christian long after the founders were dead.

That's only partly accurate. He started as a Baptist minister and socialist - - - but left the church when they objected to his political views.

But I don't feel like going through the whole spiel of Francis Bellamy. Here's the original pledge:

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' oldtimeislands.org...

(He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.)

Under God was added as propaganda against Communism.

reply to post by Annee


Touche. Although based upon what you said about him I like him more now lol

Acttually after reading the whole article I can understande the school having a problem with the shirt. As it is stated it aims the message at those who don't follow Jesus. He was given a perfectly effective alternative to express HIS religous beliefs but he refused becaise that does not get the message he wanted out

Swinimer says the principal would have accepted a shirt with the slogan, "My life is wasted without Jesus." "But I didn't go for that because I have my rights as a Canadian citizen," Swinimer said.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I wouldn't go as far to say it was meant to insult, but rather to antagonize with it's righteousness.

reply to post by Starchild23


Does the article state that the student claimed it wasn't intended as an insult? And if it does...does that make it fact? All we really have here is opinions...the only one who knows for sure is the student himself, and from reading though the thread i'd say that a sufficient number of people have come forward stating that they believe it to be in the very least provocative.

The only real, hard facts here are the kid wore the shirt for two weeks, got warned, ignored the warnings, got suspended and is now saying he shall wear it again on his return...there's one very important, obvious fact that we can extrapolate from the above statement - the student certainly hasn't learned anything, and is still intent on defying the rules...whether he likes it or not the final word should be with the school and still he is defiant.

He'll be expelled next, the one thing he is actually at school to do is learn and clearly he's learnt nothing, he thinks his self righteousness and pretentiousness is more important than the final word of the school and his education...why you are defending him is beyond me, but fair play to you...you've made some interesting points.

But it's still down to individual opinion on this one and I doubt there's a right or wrong answer, or at least an answer everyone will agree on...so whatever.

I hope he wears the shirt again, if only for the thread about him being expelled for outright pig-headed defiance...oh, the lulz!

reply to post by FlySolo


good point - I agree.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Your opinion is not fact...it is an opinion, as you have admitted.

Therefore, it cannot be argued as justification, since the actual perpetrator did not admit it.

And your point is what??

that this T-shirt is only opinion therefore it is not actually justification for anything??

My point is actually nothing to do with the wearer of the T-shirt, but with the stuffed-shirts who say that because they happen to believe this particular myth therefore is is necessarily good and peaceful and a message of hope to all.

Which is just closed-minded arrogant bigotry on their part assuming that their myth is "real", and actually the only "true one", actually has any validity and is the only method by which the value of a life can be measured.

Well logicallly speaking he is doing the opposite of what Jesus instructed his followers to do, lead his lost children back to him with love and kindness. That when he died on the cross and was resurrected is was to take away the sins and offer salvation toall that came to him. He wanted them to come to him willingly.

If people are complaining then he is pushing them away from Jesus...doing exaclty the opposite of what Crist instructed

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You used your opinion that he was intentionally insulting people as justification for his punishment.

But his intentions are your opinion, and not fact, which means we can't use your opinion to justify anything about the case.

Which means that part of your argument is pointless.

I'm not explaining it again.

Okay, AGAIN, people. This happened in Canada, so please stop taking about the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights.

reply to post by samerulesapply


It's a double-edged sword now. The suspension should have never happened because now they've opened a controversial can of worms. The school can't back down because they have to set a precedent. The kid can't back down because he's found a loop hole in free speech. The best solution to this would have been to ignore it.

reply to post by Annee


Wrong wrong wrong.. If it said "Satan rules" absolutely nothing would have happened. Christians for the most part don't want to get out of there comfort zone to even complain about it in passing.

There is a war going on against Christianity on all fronts these days. It's more than on the surface it truly is spiritual setting the stage for a dark time ahead. While I don't like organized religion I do believe in Christ and his teachings. One day that will be a crime. That's what this is leading up to. Are you ok with that?

I don't know how an issue about a Canadian brought about a debate about American founding Fathers....

Our nation is not as old, nor as steeped in tradition as America. We are (unfortunately) quite liberal, despite being governed by a majority Conservative Party. We allow immigrants to walk all over us for jobs and religious rights, we permitted homosexual marrige, and so on and so forth.

Thats what drives me about this whole deboccle. For instance, say I get offended by young girls wearing sexual peverse clothing with extremely thinly veiled sexual referances (of which there are many). But if any issue was raised, I would be slaughtered by womens rights groups.

My point is, you have rights, as long as you are not a male W.A.S.P.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Okay, AGAIN, people. This happened in Canada, so please stop taking about the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights.

Pffft I've heard Canadians say we have a constitution lol. But we do have what's called the Charter of Rights. A rose is a rose...

reply to post by FlySolo


Yeah, I think you're right there...if the school backs down now it could possibly pave the way for further insubordination and anarchy...the student needs to make an educated choice here and decide what is more important to him, furthering his education and finding a new, less cavalier method of spreading his message, or stand his ground.

He'll most likely chose the latter path, presumably he's gained quite a bit of notoriety now and finding another school might be a bit of a drag...we don't always like the rules we must adheir to, but that's life.

I broke the rules at school, the usual result was I'd be punished in some way and learn my lesson, I didn't always like it but c'est la vie, if everyone just did what they wanted in outright defiance and ignorance it'd be anarchy.

Originally posted by firegoggles
reply to post by Annee

 

Wrong wrong wrong.. If it said "Satan rules" absolutely nothing would have happened. Christians for the most part don't want to get out of there comfort zone to even complain about it in passing.

If it said Satan Rules you are right. If it was Life without Satan is a waste I believe something would be said, becasuse the first describres the wearer's belief for HIS life, the second would be implying that anyone that doesn't follow his belief os a waste of life.

reply to post by FlySolo


A rose is a rose, true. But some roses are trimmed and some aren't, not to mention the variation in color, size, genetic code, place of germination, and number of petals.

The same reasoning applies to the legal system as compared between two countries...even if they are neighbors.

reply to post by Annee


I don't mean to pick on you but your comments are so steeped in bias and just plain wrong. I follower of Christ not just some religions holy than though person ok .. a real follower of Christ would never complain about a shirt that said something in regards to Satan. It is our lives and how we treat others that set the example not complaining about mere words on a shirt. None of the people I personally know would do a thing. We would just pray for the person I can't stress enough how wrong you are.. Maybe really religious people would complain but you see that is the difference between someone who is just religious ( you can go through motions or be religious about many things by the way) may say something.

Those people give people that really try to follow Christs teaching a bad name. It does absolutely no good to attack someone because they have a shirt with a message you don't agree with. And just for the record as I stated before I don't like organized religion at all. They have completely perverted the teachings of Christ. But I do believe and try to follow Christs teachings. I fall short often and don't consider myself some great saint by any means. But I do continue to try and put others before myself and try and show love and compassion and let my life tell the tale so to speak. You see? And also for the record I don't agree with the shirts message even though I'm a believer.

I think again it's just religious all life is precious and I believe and many out there believe like I do that Jesus Christ died for ALL of mankind and it's all been taken care of already. Nor do I believe in an eternal hell. Even the "lake of fire" passages simply means an age. If people would stop just repeating the lies because it sounds cool to oppose religion and actually do REAL research they would learn what exactly the "good news" is and means and how one day the entire universe will be "set right" and all things will be unified with God and entropy will cease as will time.

Thank you,
-FG