Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school

I see a lot of people saying this was offensive to some and therefore should be removed....

I do not recall freedom of speech meaning "freedom from being offended". The whole idea of freedom of speech is to protect people's rights to say things that may offend some.

If you find something someone says offensive, do not stifle their right to free speech... instead, exercise YOUR right to free speech, and make your opinion heard!

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Annee

 

There were complaints...people offended!

I really wish people would either grow a pair or get
thicker skin.People of today are so easily offended
it is pathetic.

Begin offended is basically telling the world "I'm to immature to handle my own emotions so I demand the world to do it for me!"

Of course theres always a line, nothing crude or disgusting. However "Life without Jesus/Buddha/Allah/Preferred deity here is wasted" shirt I would say is fine. I think the kid was just wearing it to p*ss people off and thats the case he won anyways.

Reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

-_- He was not suspended for wearing something that promoted christianity. Like I said before if his shirt said my life is wasted without jesus there would be no issue. That statement would still be promoting christianity. Meditation is not a religious practice. The trip to the mosque for cultural exposure....no clue why you brought that up. Secular humanism is not a religion. You are all over place and linking this to things that dont relate and are irrelevant. Its really not this serious.


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reply to post by BomSquad


There have been instances where students were not allowed to wear shirts with the American Flag because some students at the school did not like it. . Now tell me, if we were to go to oh let's say France as an exchange student and say oh please don't wear your National Flag it offends us, can you imagine how they would respond?

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

-_- He was not suspended for wearing something that promoted christianity. Like I said before if his shirt said my life is wasted without jesus there would be no issue. That statement would still be promoting christianity. Meditation is not a religious practice. The trip to the mosque for cultural exposure....no clue why you brought that up. Secular humanism is not a religion. You are all over place and linking this to things that dont relate and are irrelevant. Its really not this serious.

 

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Oh please! get real! Secular humanism has invaded the schools and that is why you cannot wear a t shirt that says Jesus on it.

Secular Humanism is not a religion? Wanna BET?

John Dewey described Humanism as our "common faith." Julian Huxley called it "Religion without Revelation." The first Humanist Manifesto spoke openly of Humanism as a religion. Many other Humanists could be cited who have acknowledged that Humanism is a religion. In fact, claiming that Humanism was "the new religion" was trendy for at least 100 years, perhaps beginning in 1875 with the publication of The Religion of Humanity by Octavius Brooks Frothingham (1822-1895), son of the distinguished Unitarian clergyman, Nathaniel Langdon Frothingham (1793-1870), pastor of the First Unitarian Church of Boston, 1815-1850. In the 1950's, Humanists sought and obtained tax-exempt status as religious organizations. Even the Supreme Court of the United States spoke in 1961 of Secular Humanism as a religion. It was a struggle to get atheism accepted as a religion, but it happened. From 1962-1980 this was not a controversial issue.

The U.S. Supreme Court cited Secular Humanism as a religion in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins (367 U.S. 488). Roy Torcaso, the appellant, a practicing Humanist in Maryland, had refused to declare his belief in Almighty God, as then required by State law in order for him to be commissioned as a notary public. The Court held that the requirement for such an oath "invades appellant's freedom of belief and religion."

The Court declared in Torcaso that the "no establishment" clause of the First Amendment reached far more than churches of theistic faiths, that it is not the business of government or its agents to probe beliefs, and that therefore its inquiry is concluded by the fact of the profession of belief.
The Court stated:
We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person to "profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers,10 and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs.11

vftonline.org...

reply to post by LoneCloudHopper


Lol...why is everyone so fixated on the religious aspect of this...it's very simple, the school have the right to dictate their rules.

There should be a dress code it stops so many problems from occuring.

Rules and guidelines exist for a reason and if they're broken there are normally consequences, personal beliefs and traditions must be put aside now and then if you want to be part of something which imposes rules. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you go to a nightclub they might not let you in if you're not dressed appropriately, same goes for schools, colleges, places of work, etc. I'd like to go to work dressed as a ninja, it'd make me very happy but I doubt it'd be tolerated. The school laid down the law, he broke it, they took action...it doesn't matter whether the school are right or wrong as it's a matter of personal opinion...this is a debate that will never come to an amicable conclusion.

This is one of the reasons rules exist, the dress code is a kind of arbritrator - the school should ban all shirts with slogans on them, they should impose a standard dress code for all students and the problem is solved, they have the right to do so - and I'll bet the students who complained would think twice about getting all worked up over something so ridiculous.

This stops kids getting singled and bullied, etc...I live in the UK and most schools here have some kind of dress code, a few are more relaxed but they still have rules, football (soccer) tops in particular as there's serious rivalry between teams. It doesn't matter who is being offended, the rule should exist so that nobody can be offended...the stuff I see on shirts nowadays s just ridiculous though, I've seen girls wear tops that say stuff like "I'm a bitch" and all manner of other bizarre slogans and expressions, I just don't get it.

How can people actually get offended by a t-shirt that says that?

If someone had a t-shirt that said "If you do not become (RELIGION X) you will die horribly for your evil sins", I'd just laugh out loud.

Originally posted by Foxy1
What if a fraturnity had a sign on campus that said "dont let your evening goto waste apply to us!" Would the board hold a meeting to discuss the sign? because the sign would be implying if you were a person not applying to that frat you would be somone wasting your evening. Or is the board only concerned with signs or t-shirts that apply within the 80-100 year range of time?

probally not, if his shirt said the evening is wasted without jesus theyd probally punish him the same.
I wonder what they would do to him if his shirt said the evening is wasted without ghandi. probally not a damn thing LOL.

edit on 3-5-2012 by Foxy1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2012 by Foxy1 because: (no reason given)

or better yet what if the shirt said life is wasted without milk...would lactose intolerant people start taddle telling to the principle on how they found the shirt offensive and refused to be in the same room with it any longer?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Secular Humanism is not a religion? Wanna BET?

Oh well...if you and American law says so, it must be so. I stand corrected.

Secular Humanism, alternatively known as Humanism (often with a capital H to distinguish it from other forms of humanism), is a secular philosophy. It embraces human reason, ethics, and justice while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision-making.en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Secular Humanism is not a religion? Wanna BET?

Oh well...if you and American law says so, it must be so. I stand corrected.

Well the Supreme Court declared it and so did some of the major proponents. Just so people know I don't make up this stuff.

Or, you can read the Humanist Manifesto

The time has come for widespread recognition of the radical changes in religious beliefs throughout the modern world. The time is past for mere revision of traditional attitudes. Science and economic change have disrupted the old beliefs. Religions the world over are under the necessity of coming to terms with new conditions created by a vastly increased knowledge and experience. In every field of human activity, the vital movement is now in the direction of a candid and explicit humanism. In order that religious humanism may be better understood we, the undersigned, desire to make certain affirmations which we believe the facts of our contemporary life demonstrate.

Today man's larger understanding of the universe, his scientific achievements, and deeper appreciation of brotherhood, have created a situation which requires a new statement of the means and purposes of religion. Such a vital, fearless, and frank religion capable of furnishing adequate social goals and personal satisfactions may appear to many people as a complete break with the past. While this age does owe a vast debt to the traditional religions, it is none the less obvious that any religion that can hope to be a synthesizing and dynamic force for today must be shaped for the needs of this age. To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following:

FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.
SECOND: Humanism BELIEVES that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.


FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs.. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.

oops forgot the link---it's on the American Humanist Association website
www.americanhumanist.org...

I'm not a christian or any of the main/major groups. I am a believer in my own beliefs. Now I don't have problems with other religions or their followers, so if I would have known this kid I would not have cared. Also since this is in school that shirt should not have any effect on another student because it is not influencing anyone not to do their work. After reading the Canadian rights and freedoms It specifically states that, just like the USA, They have the freedom of (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication. The shirt is not derogatory, nor is it rude or stupid. This is just another sign that no matter who you are or what age you are our rights as humans and citizens are being removed from us slowly but surely!

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm


Christianity is slowly being outlawed in Canada, and this is just one example. For a country who's national anthem contains the phrase "God, Keep out Land", this seems rather vengeful against the faith of Christians, while laws/rules are being passed municipaly, provincialy, and nationaly to permit greater rights to immigrants and the religious ideologies they bring with.

news.ca.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

And what if the student wore a shirt that said: Satan Rules?

Religion does not need to be a part of public school.

I'm a minister's son and I once wore a Black Sabbath T-shirt when ringing the church bell on Sunday. The old ladies were too astonished, had they even noticed, to do anything about it, so no harm no foul as they say. LOL

Edit to add: The problem with being a rebellious minister's son is "what you resist, persists". So you're royally screwed no matter what you do or which way you go!

Best Regards,

NAM

Reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

LOL cant wear a tshirt with jesus on it lol. Funny. Good day to you sir and or madam.


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reply to post by kyle6canales


In an ideal world, what if your beliefs are contradicted by someone elses?

What if someone inherantly believes something which totally negates your beliefs Someone believes that wearing a tee0shirt with a slogan about jesus is ok...another person believes it isn't...why shopuld either back down?

What's needed is a compromise...rules - we don't always like them, but tough...if you want to function as part of a society that consists of many different people with different backgrounds and beliefs then you need to adheir to the rules of that society.

The school just handles this so badly, when the students complained about the tee-shirt the school should have said ok...we'll ban all casual clothing and everyone will wear a uniform and that's that.

Originally posted by samerulesapply

The school just handles this so badly, when the students complained about the tee-shirt the school should have said ok...we'll ban all casual clothing and everyone will wear a uniform and that's that.

How did the school handle this badly?

After several requests - - they suspended him.

Are you serious that a public school in a district can just up and declare uniforms?

Originally posted by Starchild23
I'm not Judaic in any way, and yet I will say that I believe this to be wrong. It's not a gang slogan, it's not a hateful message or slandering anyone, it's spreading a perfectly peaceful and happy message out...

And it's wrong? Are we not allowed to think for ourselves, or share beliefs? Let me guess, now they'll ban the word "Jesus" or "Christian" being mentioned in those schools...

I thought police state meant protecting the government against public dissent. Now, it's taking on a whole new meaning...no religion, no beliefs...are we going to abolish personality as well? Are we going to be a bunch of zombies good for nothing more than writing down our names and pressing buttons when told?

Someone said we'd devolve into monkeys someday. I guess they were right.

This is just the oppsite of what is happening in conservative states in the USA where worshippers of Christianity are now given special protection from Tennessee to Oklahoma ...

frankly both are extremes and both are wrong!

reply to post by Annee


Of course I am, many schools have done, it's quite common for schools to have a standard uniform - I attended one.

In primary school we had to wear a shirt and tie and gray trousers or skirt if you were female, in my secondary we'd to wear black trousers or skirt and a blue jumper with the schools emblem on it.

Namely for reasons I stated in previous posts, it stops kids being picked on for various reasons - clothes not expensive/fashionable enough, ids wearing football tops, etc.

I don't think it's unreasonable for any school to have a dress code.

I should have pointed out that the secondary school I attended were more relaxed at first, they permitted jeans and training shoes and casuial tops as long as they weren't football retaled, but gradually they tightened up on it and introduced the jumpers with the logo which we actually had to buy, ourselves.

reply to post by Foxy1


That's exactly the point I tried to make earlier but my example wasn't as spot on as your!

Jesus Christ mentioned that they hated him without a cause and the world will hate his followers without a cause. One has to be about blind to see this taking place before our very eyes in the world today!

Originally posted by samerulesapply
reply to post by Annee

 

Of course I am, many schools have done, it's quite common for schools to have a standard uniform - I attended one.

That wasn't the question.

I'm well aware some districts have uniforms in primary grades. I don't know of any public high schools that have uniforms.

What you stated is that particular school needed to make a policy change on its own. Practically over night.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Um...all that stuff you are citing is pretty groovy and all, but if you notice, it's all about 'religious humanism'. Please google secular. It's nothing but a sidebar to the debate anyway.

Kid's a smug little robotnik who got a little confused on the path to 'question authority'.