The sound of children playing..

reply to post by NewAgeMan


It is not that we have 'lost' something that we didn't have as children, we have gained something. The thing that we have gained is a sense of separation, an identity in time. Children are just 'being'. You too are just being but you believe you are a person that exists in time. Children do not have to look after their past or future selves, they do not 'mind'.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Matthew 19:14

And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3

What on earth (or in heaven above?) did Jesus really mean by this?

Surely it doesn't mean we have to run around shouting and squeeling and laughing in unrestrained glee and happiness all the time!

I've always wondered about this passage of scripture, oh there's the standard interpretations regarding the state of childlike wonderment and awe, but with Jesus' teachings in my own experience there's still more going on under the surface. Within children, there is something greater than mere "innocence", they are also open minded and incredibly curious about life, but without making any assumptions or prior judgements about it, so I think it's that open-minded, open-armed, curious and enthusiastic quality he's referring to, and that need not pass away, whether in mid-life, or even as an older, wiser person who's "seen it all".

Something, something in the spirit, in the very nature of a relationship with life - that's what he's referring to, but even still I can't quite seem to put my finger on it and say ah HA, this is what he means, and he means business when he says that it's a preconditon to entering the state of heaven or eternal life.

What do you think he's referring to?

The mind is given great importance as an adult, humans are obsessed with their thinking. Thinking is composed of 'me' and 'my' security in the future. Children are not aware of the future or the past. Children are aware of what is really happening, now is what is happening. Past and future are thought constructs and 'me' is also a thought construct.
Children are taught the concept of time and will learn to place themselves in past and future senarios. This produces the belief of a separate identity. There never is a separate identity, it is just a belief that arises with the belief in time.
Children are now.
If you want to enter the kingdom of heaven you have to find yourself now.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by NewerBeing

 

I'm afraid if I started laughing like a child they might think I'm crazy! The very thought of it makes me want to laugh out loud like a child, and who cares what ANYone thinks! LOL (but in deep, adult-sounding baratones).

P.S. How much "newer" are you ie: what's your age? I'm 45, which is kinda old but not really quite yet..

So, let them think you're crazy.

Why not be a child?

This should be everyone's goal in life. Children > Adults any day of the week.

Did you know that in one of the clearest examples of natural selection, the Donner party (pioneers who got trapped in the mountains over winter and started eating one another; en.wikipedia.org...), children had a significantly higher rate of survival? This is because they weren't obsessed with who to eat next or worrying about everyone dying. They were, instead, finding things to eat and sharing what they found with their siblings.

Children are a lot smarter than adults.

Ergo, be a child.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Hmmm, yes, I think the child in the adult can be saved.... but it will take one heck of a change in a persons life.

And, even as one person relaxes and takes part of a child-like world, there are 5 more turning bad.....

That's how I see it.

Great thread!!
I still play, even at my age. I do a lot of quirky things, but the few that my poor indulgent husband actually smiles and laughs about is my "play". I practical joke, play with my ( now bazillion dollar) doll houses, play with the kids, etc... the neighborhood kids love me because we all dress up and have REAL tea parties in my formal dining room. Difference now is that I have the coolest toys.. and Im in my ..erm.. 40's.

Anyway, I also work with youth.. disadvantaged, troubled, etc.. however you want to label them. Basically theyre just kids who need to learn to play and not be afraid to express that innocence and joy in life that circumstances, poverty, abuse, economics, etc have robbed from them. There is nothing that can bring one's soul more joy than seeing a tatted up "thug in a hoodie" looking with wild wonder and joy when they have just ridden their first pony or decided to join in with a water balloon game. Its true that for some, this is lost forever and theyre truly broken humans, but never take it for granted that every hard core thug is a lost cause. There is a greatness in tapping into that overused cliche.. your inner child.

Live rite next to a preschool, wonder those same questions everyday. I think somthineg decided to process us to take away that invinsible godly feeling those kids run around with.

i remember seeing a similar sight...it snowed pretty heavy the night before and I passed by a school yard just as the kids came out for recess. they went berserk.

just ahead of me was another guy, kind of young, and I remember him commenting to himself out loud...better enjoy that because it doesn't last. he spoke my thoughts exactly.

adults get to make sure its always that way for kids.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Matthew 19:14

And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3

What on earth (or in heaven above?) did Jesus really mean by this?

Surely it doesn't mean we have to run around shouting and squeeling and laughing in unrestrained glee and happiness all the time!

I've always wondered about this passage of scripture, oh there's the standard interpretations regarding the state of childlike wonderment and awe, but with Jesus' teachings in my own experience there's still more going on under the surface. Within children, there is something greater than mere "innocence", they are also open minded and incredibly curious about life, but without making any assumptions or prior judgements about it, so I think it's that open-minded, open-armed, curious and enthusiastic quality he's referring to, and that need not pass away, whether in mid-life, or even as an older, wiser person who's "seen it all".

Something, something in the spirit, in the very nature of a relationship with life - that's what he's referring to, but even still I can't quite seem to put my finger on it and say ah HA, this is what he means, and he means business when he says that it's a preconditon to entering the state of heaven or eternal life.

What do you think he's referring to?

The mind is given great importance as an adult, humans are obsessed with their thinking. Thinking is composed of 'me' and 'my' security in the future. Children are not aware of the future or the past. Children are aware of what is really happening, now is what is happening. Past and future are thought constructs and 'me' is also a thought construct.
Children are taught the concept of time and will learn to place themselves in past and future senarios. This produces the belief of a separate identity. There never is a separate identity, it is just a belief that arises with the belief in time.
Children are now.
If you want to enter the kingdom of heaven you have to find yourself now.

That was a very deep insight, about pure being with awareness in reality as it is, which is timeless ie: "heavenly", and it's unhindered, unconstrained and thus liberated and set free to be real, to be ourselves as we are, right now, yet without a fixed identification ie authentically. And then if we sit with this for a bit, it starts to bring a childlike smile to the face, and hey there we are!


Children approach life honestly and openly, without a hardened, fixed bias (prior judgement) or "reality tunnel". Without a prior judgement on life, they are then free to experience it openly, as it is, or as it presents itsef, which definitely isn't past or future based, you're right. Like I said, they and the life they are experiencing is authentic/real ala "kingdom of heaven" or the real life as it is and was (as it's already always prior condition) meant to be lived and experienced, with us ALL incuded as children of God (first/last cause, truth and life).

Adults (many of them/us) on the other hand, are contrived, highly constrained, and inauthentic and lacking in a sense of spontaneity and immediate presence of being.

Therefore, unless we change or transform, we will never see and experience the "kingdom of heaven" within which we are already emersed, as the real life as it is, which is always and forever fresh and new, here and now, both within and without. This is the experience of the child and I would purport, of the child who continues to live within us as our truest (most authentic) self, who sits patiently awaiting re-cognition.. and for the opportunity to play again!

That it all makes perfect sense, makes us all the more uncomfortable (some of us) as adults, wondering what happened to us, and if the child within still lives on - but this is a very good thing, so I'm glad this thread has helped to pose that question, again, to ourselves, about children and the child within, and about the nature of being and the roots and origins of fun and happiness..


So, we don't have to run around arms flailing, shouting and squeeling in glee, neccessarily, because it is the knowledge of experience.

Best Regards,

NAM
although they once called me Bobby!

Originally posted by michaelbrux
i remember seeing a similar sight...it snowed pretty heavy the night before and I passed by a school yard just as the kids came out for recess. they went berserk.

just ahead of me was another guy, kind of young, and I remember him commenting to himself out loud...better enjoy that because it doesn't last. he spoke my thoughts exactly.

adults get to make sure its always that way for kids.

If true, then the children's "domain" of unfettered joy and happiness is shrinking, not expanding, and thus at risk.

This thread has really driven something home for me, and I thank everyone who's participated, whether in a written post or mere contemplative reading, and that is this - how truly important it is to be much more present to life as it comes, without prior judgement, happy, and playful, or, if I were to skin my knee, sad and tearful. It's much better to be emotionally responsive to life, than cut off, separated, alone, and cold hearteded, dead to life. It can happen, very easily, getting lost and losing our way and becoming emotionally cut off from the experience of life, as many of us know, but with a firm decision, I am convinced that a turning point can be reached and achieved by which the "inner-child" may be recovered, and our sense of humor and joy, and playfulness, restored.

We just have to be brave, that's all. (said like a child)

People are playing, even while here.. Kinda like Anon taking a shot at the left at the start of this thread.. He is taking a shot for his team. Take the people here who are really far from reality, thats because they make up a world and submerge themselves in it.. Everyone here is playing.

reply to post by Advantage

The world would be a much better place if there were more people like you around. Nobody has to "grow up".

Sure, as we get older we have to take on new responsibilities. But that doesn't mean we have to become stoic and keep a straight face all the time. I'm 24 and I still have the same outlook that I did when I was 12. I can still identify with high school kids and speak to them like we're on the same level. Because we are on the same level. Just because years go by doesn't mean that our attitude has to change. Time doesn't alter the mind, people only think it does.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Children don't approach life because children are life. Adults approach life because they believe there is a life that is separate from them. Life for an adult is tomorrow or yesterdays problem.
What is wrong with right now......unless you think about it?
Young children only ever have to deal with now.
Adults only have to deal with now but they imagine that there is more.

Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by Advantage

 

Time doesn't alter the mind, people only think it does.

You're right. Time doesn't alter the mind. Experiences do. Or the lack of them. And that takes time. And in turn it's how we deal with those experiences, or the lack of them, that dictate how we act as adults.

There have bad times in my life and there have been good times. I've noticed that during the good times in my life I wasn't pre-occupied thinking about the bad ones in the past or what the future might hold either way. I was more in the here and now. The here and now for me at this point in time involves a child of my own. Yes, I have my own life and responsibilities, but that doesn't mean I have to focus so heavily on the future that I sacrifice my happiness in the here and now. If anything else, what kind of message does that send my daughter? Not a very good one in my opinion.

You can have your cake and eat it too if you cook it right. You can have a happy life right now AND make sure the future remains the same as that. It's all about keeping a positive attitude through it all. So you're going through a rough patch right now because of money, relationships, work....whatever. Don't let it get you down because the bad times never last forever. You will wake up tomorrow and the sun will shine. Life will go on. It never fails. I haven't met a person yet who has had it bad ALL the time throughout their ENTIRE life. It just doesn't happen unless they want it to.

Your attitude determines your altitude and kids seem to be on the top of the world because they're happy most of the time.

See the connection?

A kid can fall down and scrape his knee and cry about it because it hurts. But 9 times out 10 you're going to see that kid back up and playing in no time. Why? Because he's not worried about it.

See the connection?

Kids have a good thing going for them. It's a shame that there are adults who ruin it for them by saying "When are you going to grow up?"

As if they're happy about the fact that they did.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
It's a shame that there are adults who ruin it for them by saying "When are you going to grow up?"

As if they're happy about the fact that they did.

Misery loves company. There are some people who hate to see others happy just because they aren't. It's pretty sad when people take it out on their own children.

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
It's a shame that there are adults who ruin it for them by saying "When are you going to grow up?"

As if they're happy about the fact that they did.

Misery loves company.

True that. I'm just at a point in my life where I don't wanna give it to them.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Children don't approach life because children are life. Adults approach life because they believe there is a life that is separate from them. Life for an adult is tomorrow or yesterdays problem.
What is wrong with right now......unless you think about it?
Young children only ever have to deal with now.
Adults only have to deal with now but they imagine that there is more.

That's a good distinction, but the point i was making was about being open, and present to life as it is, authentically, which amounts to the same thing.

We can have both the wisdom of an old man and the heart of a child both.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Children don't approach life because children are life. Adults approach life because they believe there is a life that is separate from them. Life for an adult is tomorrow or yesterdays problem.
What is wrong with right now......unless you think about it?
Young children only ever have to deal with now.
Adults only have to deal with now but they imagine that there is more.

That's a good distinction, but the point i was making was about being open, and present to life as it is, authentically, which amounts to the same thing.

We can have both the wisdom of an old man and the heart of a child both.

Of course i totally agree. Children are already home before their journey into the 'world of things'. They would not be able to return home if they had never left.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

I was just really wondering what Jesus meant when he said that a person would never enter the kingdom of heaven unless and until that person changes to become like a child, what quality it was that a child has that we must have, and presence in the now is a big part of it, but not the whole picture imho. There is a certain disposition that they have in relationship with and to life, that is key, and I think it has to do with being real or what I call authentic, and without pretense ie: honest, and open.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I was just really wondering what Jesus meant when he said that a person would never enter the kingdom of heaven unless and until that person changes to become like a child, what quality it was that a child has that we must have, and presence in the now is a big part of it, but not the whole picture imho. There is a certain disposition that they have in relationship with and to life, that is key, and I think it has to do with being real or what I call authentic, and without pretense ie: honest, and open.

I know you weren't addressing me, but I have something to add to this.

I always understood the words of Jesus to mean that the children were the only ones who were pure enough to enter Heaven. The adults were there, crowded around, complaining that Jesus was paying attention to the "worthless" children because they felt they were better than the children.

Children are the great equalizers. Children play with anyone they can, talk to anyone they come into contact with, smile and wave at everyone, and love every human equally.

That is, until their minds get warped by things adults tell them.

It is, in part, innocence. But, not necessarily innocence of the world - an innocence from hate. There is no innate hate or dislike or disdain.

Yes, there is fear in children, but it is insecurity caused by not knowing if the parent(s) will come to the rescue when things get scary. The fear disappears when the parent(s) come and scoop up the children and tell them it's OK.

Adults don't react that way - they can't take reassurances at face value, there's always questioning, disbelief, continuing insecurity and continued fear.

So, yes, children are honest and open, but they are also trusting and free from hate or bias.