Do You Really Need Someone To Tell You About The Lines In The Sky?

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore

That is a good one...I have asked every person i can about seeing lines, not one ever remember them EVER persisting, but all dissipated in under 5 minutes, usually under 2 minutes.

You should ask people on ATS. When the question was asked more than half the people reported remembering the trails.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A while ago I went through that and cropped out the relevant parts. Examples:

I’m 52 and I remember seeing them all the time when I was a kid in the ’60′s. I remember because I asked my dad, who was an engineer, to explain to me what caused them.

Yeah, I gotcha, many times for hours. Maybe most of the day, I don’t know, I never spent that much time looking at em.

I’m not epic old, but I do remember some contrails lasting for hours, arching over the sky and you could follow it right to the horizon.

The Glynco Naval Air Station was working in full force when I was born in 1947.
I am also in between Savannah and Jacksonville that are both homes to military air stations.
Yes I remember the contrails growing up and enjoyed seeing the jets in the sky.
We had many sightings a day due to being so close to the ocean,

I used to sky watch all the time with my friends when we were little kids… we all remember contrails in the sky and them lasting for a few minutes, perhaps up to an hour, but not the whole day, not EVER.

im not much older than you op im 25 and remember seeing them as a kid in the early 90s. i would watch as a plane approched a contrail and expected them to crash when it hit them.

I’m 51 & live in the South Pacific.
Down here there was only 1 overhead air route when I was a kid – between 2 cities 200 miles north & 200 miles south (and it’s still the same there now). I remember seeing long contrails along that route before I started working – so in the early 70′s and late 60′s – sometimes the one from the flight in 1 direction would still be there when the a/c went back in the opposite direction an hour later.
I remember them spreading out a little – but not over the “whole sky”

I’m in my 40s and grew up in SW PA. I used to love looking into the summer sky and seeing long CONTRAILs. I would follow them across the sky to see if the plane was still in the air. This isn’t a new phenomenon, they’ve been around for as long as I can remember!
This would be in the 70s. Yes, the skies around Pittsburgh weren’t THAT bad. You have to remember that the Steel mills were starting to shut down and the air quality started to improve.

I have been looking at blue skies for over 60 years. I can remember looking at a certain amount of contrails all my life. The sky was blue and I mean blue and sunny on a summers day. 15 years ago I started working what I call vampire hours. I slept alot of the days away and up about all night. I didn’t get to see much of the sky. This past year I have found myself unemployeed like so many others. I would get up in the morning to a nice spring or summer day which didn’t last past 10 am. I kept wondering what had changed I knew something had. Some days I will see contrails going in all directions within an hour the sky will be like a sheer white veil and never see the blue and sunny sky again. … I really miss my nice mornings and sunny skies.

I’ve been around for a while, now, and here in the inter-mountain west and the northern high plains I see no difference in the behavior of contrails. There are certainly MORE of them than in the 60′s and 70′s but they act the same as far as I can tell. And you can see a l-o-n-g way from a mountain top!

I’m 50, from Indiana US. I remember contrails just as they are today from my childhood. I had an interest in the planes over my head because my father commuted by plane for most of my childhood. There is always the wonder if Dad is in that plane over head. There are absolutely more planes now.

I was in the USAF from 1990 to 1996. I remember having a guy come into our unit that had a BS in aeronautical engineering, but he was enlisted. I was amazed that he didn’t apply for OCS since he would be able to. Anyway, me being a guy who didn’t have a BS I thought he would be a wealth of knowledge for the many questions I had. (there was no Google back then) I asked him why some contrails lasted a long time and why some went away quickly. He didn’t know. Now either he didn’t pay attention in class, or they didn’t teach him about that, but it doesn’t matter. I clearly remember being interested enough to ask this question in the early 90′s. Being 43 now, I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast, but that one memory seems to validate that persistent contrails have been around for a bit.

I've also been running a survey of when people first noticed persistent contrails, you can see the results here:

docs.google.com...

reply to post by ArrowsNV


I think you may be missing the point here. He didn't say planes didn't create contrails before, because they did.

What i'm getting is that planes didn't leave trails that lasted for several hours and covering a whole area for the rest of the day.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Curious and Concerned

Originally posted by FutureThinker
I always see people making comments that these are just planes on their regular flights, so how is it that they are doing these "curved" lines in the sky, and this was two or more planes flying in pretty close formation.

People really need to start thinking outside the box, this is not NORMAL by any means.

Have you ever heard of a holding pattern?

And yes, this is quite normal, even though it is generally avoided when possible, but it still happens. How's that for thinking outside the box

That explains why I've seen them curve no where remotely near an airport...right?

Actually yes. Watch this video. It shows weather delay causing planes to fly in circles hundreds of miles from their destinations:

Well done mate, expect the morons that cannot remember what the sky and its artifacts looked like and how they behaved to arrive in hordes to have a circle jerk whilst decrying your lack of cognitive ability and failing memory.

An operation against the people will definitely have the .mil morons behind it *issing on you while telling you it is raining.
And those people who believe they have the weight of science behind them, in reality cannot really have the weight of science behind them, if they were really interested in the truth, the main aim of scientific process, they wouldn't believe that A, they already know evcerything, and B, what they are seeing is normal.

With so many scientists asleep at the wheel, no wonder this planet is in the state it is in.

I can hear the patter of feet now, they will be here in a moment to deny all kinds of ignorance, except their own.

Originally posted by FutureThinker
I would like to put up a picture in defence of the OPs thread, this picture was taken in Los Angeles Ca on 4/18/2012, what this shows is at least 2 planes making Chemtrails/Contrails that are curved.

I always see people making comments that these are just planes on their regular flights, so how is it that they are doing these "curved" lines in the sky, and this was two or more planes flying in pretty close formation.

People really need to start thinking outside the box, this is not NORMAL by any means.

I hope the pic is visible

edit on 2-5-2012 by FutureThinker because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2012 by FutureThinker because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2012 by FutureThinker because: (no reason given)

HAHAHAH Hilarious, telling people they need to start 'thinking outside the box' when the idea of planes making banking turns, aka in a holding pattern, has never occurred to you. Not normal? So jets can only fly in a straight line huh?

reply to post by Uncinus


Uncinus (debunker), you are exactly wht i am talking about, you claim to be a "Debunker", which implies, you know enough about everything to be able to "debunk" whatever you want to.
When in fact the truth is, all you know is what you have "Learned", all you do is spew the set of information that fits best with your precepts and inate naivety.
You don't "Debunk" anything, you just regurgitate information in defence of precepts you have no idea of knowing one way or the other if they are fact, this is due to you "precluding" any kind of "strange" or "odd" information that is outside your spewing capability as requiring "Debunking" because that is all you are capable of, irrespective of the facts.

I just denied your obvious, blatant, and well maintained ignorance, Debunker indeed, don't make me laugh.

Originally posted by Uncinus
I've also been running a survey of when people first noticed persistent contrails, you can see the results here:

docs.google.com...

So how do you explain the stacked amount of responses within the chemtrail phenomena time frame? This was on your site - no? A site that is anti-chemtrail and pro ultra persistent contrail? Have you kept a running tab? It looks like way more than 50% within the chemtrail era. Are you switching sides?

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
S & F.
I pointed this out a long time ago. There were no lines in the sky when we were young. Not even when I was older. Not even 4 years ago!!!
Here in South Africa, they started spraying in 2010.
So, how is it that in this modern age, all of a sudden there appear lines in the sky that never where there before??
Eyes wide shut.......

How can anyone say that there was "NO" lines in the sky when they were young? I was born in 1972 and I grew up a airplane junkie.. I built model planes and went to air shows and all of it and i can tell you because yes I paid attention that planes made no more and no less "CONTRAILS" than they do today. More planes are flying today than there were then and some of the engine technology has changed as was stated before in this thread but the contrails have always been there. Now, I will say that maybe in South Africa you saw it differently. I dont know your climate but the contrails have to do with humidity and the way the airplanes wings and fuselage cut through the air and displace the moisture. Maybe here in the midwest of the united states where we have fairly high humidity is was more prevalent but this is no conspiracy people. Everything and i mean EVERYTHING I have read in this thread can be easily explained by your average 5th grader. And no, its not a conspiracy to spread disinformation. Its just the cold hard facts. No one is spraying anything from commercial jet liners.. That is just nonsense.

reply to post by YourDreamsCanceled


This chemtrail stuff is getting really silly.... you are very paranoid about this and maybe you need to get out to the mountains to clear your head or maybe even go see a doctor!!

It is just more planes in the sky these days which means more fumes!

I agree that its very bad for our health but there's not much we can do about that unless we travel by boat or the "scientists" develope a cleaner fuel for the planes!

Originally posted by Jeedawg
reply to post by ArrowsNV

 

I think you may be missing the point here. He didn't say planes didn't create contrails before, because they did.

What i'm getting is that planes didn't leave trails that lasted for several hours and covering a whole area for the rest of the day.

Then why did the Encyclopedia Britannica have this definition in 1993?

"Contrail - streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear cold humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapor produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud." - Encyclopædia Britannica 1993.

I'm constantly looking up at the sky, every time I'm outside really. And I've never seen these chemtrails before. I'm not saying that others are making this stuff up just that in my neck of the woods I've never seen this. I've seen an occasional jet flying by, at an extremely high altitude as i couldn't even seen the actual plane, leaving a contrail. Never multiple trails. I find them interesting but just as uncommon as moving lights in the night sky.

Originally posted by ProRipp
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Do you really need someone to tell you how ridiculous your statement is ?
It does'nt matter how many planes !
If they were 'normal' contrails they would dissipate at 'normal' rates, not linger !


Peace

I believe his statement is very relevant. His point being that most people dont notice things until they are pointed out or until their frequency becomes a factor in them noticing. The rate that they dissipate has to do with the time of year, the altitude, the humidity and the size and speed of the plane that made them. No two will be the same and how many people when they were kids set around and waited to see how long they lingered? If you say you did you are lying.. Now that someone has come up with this theory and people are standing around staring at the sky with a stopwatch has it become an issue. They have not change and even if they have it is just because of changing global weather. Nothing more.

Out of interest, if all this is a recent phenomenom, why back in 1970 were scientists saying "The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet and then studying the effects of this?

Were they imagining it? Where there chemtrails in the late 60s and 70s? Or have contrails always behaved exactly in the same manner as what today are called chemtrails?

Or maybe chemtrails replicate the well known and much studied pattern exhibited by normal contrails, so that it's impossible to tell one from the other?

reply to post by YourDreamsCanceled


I see what your getting at, and nice video collection too.
Perhaps it's because of an increase of air traffic? I don't think i have ever even read a chemtrail thread before.
Therefore I can't really say that with 100% certainty. I see them rarely where I live. Maybe one or two in the sky at the same time tops, when they even happen. I'd post a picture of my clear skies, but, it's raining.

And what's with this 1980 news report on how contrails are making the skies cloudier?

I remember as a kid in Southern California in the late 50's and early 60's seeing high altitude planes or jets and seeing the vapor trails. Back then we referred to them as 'vapor trails' Thing was they were only a few as the planes were still a lot of prop planes flying passengers, so it was more likely to be a military jet. Heak, that was back in the days of the X15 and sputnik.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Couple of questions on the paper you presented, if you know. From your link:

As measured later (1969) by lidar the mean thickness of the contrail sheets was 500 m.

From a link on the history of lidar:

A Brief History of Lidar

LiDAR (also known as LaDAR ot Laser Detection and Ranging) has been used extensively for atmospheric research and meteorology due to its excellent resolution. It was only with the deployment of Global Positioning Systems (GPS) in the 1980s, allowing the precise positioning of aircraft, that LiDAR made airborne surveying possible. Since then many downward looking LiDAR instruments have been developed for aircraft and satellite use.

Later in your document they mention that they were doing the measuring of depth from a 900 something aircraft. Was this like secret technology or something since the things I found say that lidar wasn't available for use in aircraft until the 1980's?

Also this quote from your link (although this sort of thing is said in various places throughout the document and appears in the title as well):

Again, contrail persistence is assumed...If we further speculate that deeper cloud cover would occur on one out of every three days in both cases...

So is the contrail persisting or are they assuming it is? Why are they speculating when supposedly they're in aircraft measuring?

One last question: this has got to be the first paper like this that I've read with photographs. Was that a thing back then, to put photographs in a research paper? Usually it's just like diagrams and charts.

Thanks for your attention.

Originally posted by The X
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Uncinus (debunker), you are exactly wht i am talking about, you claim to be a "Debunker", which implies, you know enough about everything to be able to "debunk" whatever you want to.
When in fact the truth is, all you know is what you have "Learned", all you do is spew the set of information that fits best with your precepts and inate naivety.
You don't "Debunk" anything, you just regurgitate information in defence of precepts you have no idea of knowing one way or the other if they are fact, this is due to you "precluding" any kind of "strange" or "odd" information that is outside your spewing capability as requiring "Debunking" because that is all you are capable of, irrespective of the facts.

I just denied your obvious, blatant, and well maintained ignorance, Debunker indeed, don't make me laugh.

edit on 3-5-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)

All I did was post a video that showed that weather can cause aircraft to go into a holding pattern hundreds of miles from their destination.

That's just a fact. Pure and simple. So what are you getting so upset about?

Originally posted by Uncinus
And what's with this 1980 news report on how contrails are making the skies cloudier?

Thanks for adding another video with no visible contrails or chemtrails in it, just a plane flying along in the 80's without a massive expanding trail behind it, I have to smile when naysayers present evidence that actually makes them look silly. You would think in a video about contrails making the skies cloudier there would be a video of a plane with a contrail, that's just classic. No lines in this video either.

By the way mate what's the deal with the obsessive chemtrail posting, from your profile it looks like you spend all day every day in this category?