Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by karen61057

Its only a sinful nature when sex is a sin. If you dont subscribe to that then sex is not sinful its just nice. You should also note that recently the Vatican came out and said that the story of Adam and Eve was just that, a story. What does that do to the concept of original sin my brother ?

edit on 29-4-2012 by karen61057 because: (no reason given)

No one tool or action is evil or good. It can be used for evil or good.
Like a gun or a shovel or sex.

Like if someone wallows in vanity and pride all day, and uses sex to control or manipulate other people unfairly, than I'd have to say that's a 'sin' or as I like to say, not cool. People who cheat and lie, etc. Those are 'sins' because they are being a d-bag to other human beings or to themselves. Rapists, etc.

But people who are not harming anyone at all, well then it's not really our business now is it? It's only our business if someone is harmed unfairly in some manner.

Is _____ a sin? Depends on the situation.

Human Sexuality is far, far, FAR more complex than this thread can do justice.

Let's say a male heterosexual is the person being addressed, right now?

Is "EVERY" Human female you see sexually attractive, to you?? (Same goes for any female heterosexuals reading , now).


IF THIS SIMPLE concept has not yet sunk in??

Well...it needs to....sink in, I mean.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by windword

 

And mostly when it happens in the animal kingdom its because populations are over what the environment can sustain. Except for the Bonobos who just love to love ya baby. They have sex for everything. To say hello, to say goodbye, to settle an argument hell even when they are angry. These guys get it on all day long.
These little guys do it all. Face to face intercourse, tongue kissing, ( really??) oral sex. ( getting that tongue again) and homosexual behavour. They are the only know species of ape other than man to do so. www.liveleak.com...

edit on 29-4-2012 by karen61057 because: to add the link

I already posted this, but.......

en.wikipedia.org...
No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.[20]


Two male giraffes in Kenya.
An example of overlooking homosexual behavior is noted by Bruce Bagemihl describing mating giraffes where nine out of ten pairings occur between males.
Every male that sniffed a female was reported as sex, while anal intercourse with orgasm between males was only "revolving around" dominance, competition or greetings.[22]

I really don't think population is problem among giraffes.

So you're saying that Gays are really just Alpha males asserting themselves ? I am being silly of course.

Originally posted by Starwise
I have a 6 year old boy, who *IF* he turns out to be gay or bisexual, I will tell him I love him NO MATTER WHAT!! And that I have known since he was 2-3 years old!!!!

A friend of ours has a son that is gay and 20 something now and when he was like 5 he was upset that he couldn't dress in a princes costume or didn't get invited to the girls birthday parties. The kid had no clue at that age, he just knew what he like or disliked. His every behavior was that of a girl, so there is something going on physically...

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Homosexuality - as in the orientation, not the behaviour - is innate and even has to do with the fact that all human embryos start off female and about 10% of the time testosterone doesn't masculinize the brain or body fully, so 1 in 10 guys turns out homosexual (the underlying orientation, not necessarily the behavior which is often closet marriage/fathering to fit in, etc) - globally.

1 in 10 guys are homosexual? Really? 10% is a HUUGE number. And a statistic that I don't see.

Them statistics have just been pulled out of somebodys ass, because there is no way of completely knowing that ......."10% of the time testosterone doesn't masculinize the brain or body full"....... and to suggest that there must be millions and millions of closets out there JUST because evidently, statistically there just simply isn't THAT many homosexuals...... sounds total BS to me.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

It's even easier than that.......when (generically speaking) "you", in the audience reading this, sees a member of the opposite sex, how do you"feel"?

Or, for those who are Gay, and you see a member of the SAME sex, same question.

It is THAT simple!!!

I am a straight female but I am not attracted to every male. How I feel observing any person is really determined by the situation. By your analogy I should be turned on every time I see a male.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

There weren't always red heads. Red hair is a genetic mutation.

I don't think genetics is a part of it unless they can pin point a gene that changes an X or a Y chromosome later in the fetus growth period. Right now I would just say it is a abnormality that happens and the outcome is being born gay since the fetus matured too long as one sex and then switched.

reply to post by karen61057


No, men you find sexually attractive should turn you on. Not every male is going to be attractive to you.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by AllIsOne


So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

What are you trying to say/ask?

Are you insinuating that people do not choose who they kiss?

How would this same exact ideology go over after you get cheated on by your mate?
"OH I am just genetically disposed to have sex with them, so that's why I cheated."

Right, that argument when used by cheaters is just lame. I couldnt help it. You cant help who you fall in love with. BULL. You can too. Anything else is just lack of self control. I had an opportunity. I was attracted. I didnt act on it.

reply to post by karen61057


It wasn't my "point" to make that analogy......that "every" straight person is "turned on" by seeing "EVERY" person of the opposite sex!!

My 'point' was that too often, those who "Gay-Bash" have some weird impression that "every" Gay person is sexually attracted to EACH of their same sex.....doesn't work that way, and THAT was my 'point'!!!

Originally posted by Debunkology

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Homosexuality - as in the orientation, not the behaviour - is innate and even has to do with the fact that all human embryos start off female and about 10% of the time testosterone doesn't masculinize the brain or body fully, so 1 in 10 guys turns out homosexual (the underlying orientation, not necessarily the behavior which is often closet marriage/fathering to fit in, etc) - globally.

1 in 10 guys are homosexual? Really? 10% is a HUUGE number. And a statistic that I don't see.

Them statistics have just been pulled out of somebodys ass, because there is no way of completely knowing that ......."10% of the time testosterone doesn't masculinize the brain or body full"....... and to suggest that there must be millions and millions of closets out there JUST because evidently, statistically there just simply isn't THAT many homosexuals...... sounds total BS to me.

Out side all the spin (on both sides mind you) the closer number is 3% male 2% female.

reply to post by BiggerPicture


Hi Lefty. Me too. Lucky for me no one tried to change me. I had a few teachers who actually assisted me in coping in a righty world. I am ambidextrous now .

Originally posted by ProudBird
Is "EVERY" Human female you see sexually attractive, to you?? (Same goes for any female heterosexuals reading , now).

Depends on how drunk I am.

Women are different. A nice car, money, clothes,....... that can make a guy seem attractive to them.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I "like" the idea of the 10% number.....but, yeah....this came from some OLD data, maybe the Kinsey investigations.

Thing is....well....men aren't (sometimes) all that particular, if you know what I mean....so.....the "up to 10%" figure may include some cross-over bi-sexuality, even if only "once" (or "twice")...for both sexes

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
i didnt choose to be left handed

Humans are technically ambidextrous.
That means we are neither disposed to either hand particularly.

However through societal traditions and customs, we have gravitated more towards the "right hand".

We even named it improperly, because "right" means "correct", and this assumed "left" is "not correct". It's a fallacy.

People who prefer or gravitate towards one hand can devote themselves to years of consistent practice and use the other hand just as well.

Of course that's a huge waste of time generally speaking.

But it's a provable and repeatable fact, any human being who has motor skills of any decent value can train themselves and become truly ambidextrous. Yes it's true you will always still prefer your original favorite hand, but you will be capable of manipulating objects equally with both hands.

There are some genes scientists have claimed influence the "odds of" handedness, but there is nothing absolutely shown to be a determining factor. But that actually isn't telling us much of anything specifically.

So they found that some left handed people had the gene, some did not, and some right handed people had the gene and some did not. However statistically the presence of the gene coincided in this specific study with these specific individuals more often in the left handed people. It is by no means a definitive factor, and you can be left handed just fine without it. (So I'm going to have to say it's a coincidence statistic and not causally related).

Oh yeah and then they just had to associate left-handedness with mental disorders.
Handedness wiki

In 2007, researchers discovered LRRTM1, the first gene linked to increased odds of being left-handed. The researchers also found evidence that possessing one particular form of this gene slightly raises the risk of psychotic mental illnesses such as schizophrenia.[19][20]

I have a strong feeling we are misinterpreting the data we are looking at.

It will take several centuries of deep research to actually figure out how DNA works and how to manipulate it properly without opening pandora's box every time.

Yes I would call linking left-handers with schizophrenia "pandora's box".

Originally posted by KingDoey
reply to post by ANOK

 

So because i believe that homosexuality isnt genetic I am branded as ignorant?

I never said there was a 'gene'. Is there a straight gene? But people are ignorant if they claim it's a choice.

Sexual orientation is distinct from other components of sex and gender, including biological sex (the anatomical, physiological, and genetic characteristics associated with being male or female), gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female),* and social gender role (the cultural norms that define feminine and masculine behavior).

www.apa.org...

According to current scientific and professional understanding, the core attractions that form the basis for adult sexual orientation typically emerge between middle childhood and early adolescence. These patterns of emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction may arise without any prior sexual experience. People can be celibate and still know their sexual orientation--be it lesbian, gay, bisexual, or heterosexual.

www.apa.org...

There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.

www.apa.org...

If being gay was determined by genes then science would be able to correct that, if the said person wanted it to be corrected.

Huh seriously? Well what if they don't want to change? You are simply trying to force your "morality" on others. It is none of your business what other people do, or who they do, period!

The use of the notion of “sin” in this connection frequently betrays a large-scale misunderstanding. As both Jesus and Paul make almost excessively clear, they address themselves only to “sinners” and the “lost.” One should therefore view with alarm discussions of this question which, discovering that homosexuals are sinners, conclude that they are unfit for the ministry and, almost, for Christian community. Are we then necessarily to conclude that since homosexuals are sinners -- and healthy heterosexuals are less so -- that Christ died for homosexuals but not for us? Out of our own self-righteousness we therefore have condemned ourselves.

www.religion-online.org...

Originally posted by ProudBird
My 'point' was that too often, those who "Gay-Bash" have some weird impression that "every" Gay person is sexually attracted to EACH of their same sex.....doesn't work that way, and THAT was my 'point'!!!

I do think that whatever is the cause for this abnormality, being gay is just one of the noticeable results. A lot of very talented people are gay, way more than the norm. I also would not be surprise if the average IQ was higher than the norm. I do think there are some negative sides to it too. Many are what I would call hyper-sexual and the homosexual community is still the highest risk group out there.

I really think there is much more going on here than just being gay......

reply to post by muzzleflash


Wrong:

Humans are technically ambidextrous.
That means we are neither disposed to either hand particularly.

More bigotry...(check your science more closely).

Speaking of being attracted to women...the older I get, the more I realize that I'm not as discriminating as before.

Originally posted by secretagentwomyn
reply to post by frazzle

 

There were no vaccines in ancient Greece and Rome...They had an awful lot of homosexuality. The quote you posted is exactly what happens...It can happen from several different factors

Absolutely true. That's why I separated what I "thought" was the probable cause (which CAN be a factor) from that list of other probable causes. And the list is probably not complete, either. We're complex characters.