"The Secret Meeting that Changed Hip-hop and Destroyed a Generation"

I don't believe there was any meeting held to help prisons. I worked in the industry. I knew guys from those days when LOTNS, Sadat X, Black Sheep, and the others were making music.

The truth of the matter was simple. The music wasn't selling enough units to keep labels happy any more. Def Jam was about to unleash several "horror core" rap groups. Think Esham from Detroit and you have the message. What happened was the same thing that happened in rock music. The attitude of our culture changed.

People were disillusioned after the iron curtain fell. The economy was sputtering. We saw more wars, salaries were stagnant, NAFTA shipped industrial jobs out of the country. Companies like Lucent, Nortel, and IBM were laying off workers. The black community was frustrated because of the Rodney King issue. Things were simmering and boiling.

Like Tupac said in an interview, if you see a bunch of people having a feast in a room and you're starving, the first night you might just come up and ask for some scraps. If you keep seeing these same people feasting every night, and you aren't even getting a scrap, eventually you start banging on the door and trying to kick it down. You stop singing and begging. You start demanding and threatening.

This is the same time that rock bands like Nirvana and Alice in Chains were coming on the scene. The rock sound became much more raw. It became more aggressive taking on tones from punk and hardcore. It was also selling the story of angst, depression, and rebellion. Only it was coming from a different angle.

One of the big things that fueled the shift was that the first generation of "latch key kids" were coming of age. They were facing a world that they weren't ready for. Here was a generation left to fend for itself throughout their life being asked to accept the rigid corporate and college systems of authority. They were also old enough to realize that the authority being exerted in their life came from people that were incompetent.

The sociological factors leading to the change in music could fill a book or ten.

Great thread and i firmly believe the rap/hip-hop genre was manipulated to reflect the gangs/violence/guns/drugs themes to get alot of young african-americans into the prisons.

Also possibly films of this time period might have been made under this mantra as well, Boyz N The Hood, Menace To Society etc. Anyone think of any others?

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


I agree with what you've written here. I see parallels with the 'heavy metal' music of the 80's when I was a teen. I keep trying to think if there was violence that much in it, I can't remember. The messages in the music that stuck with me, that I tried to emulate, led me down a path of alcoholism, drugs, and promiscuity. After that it was sadomasochism, due to the music I listened to. I am still dealing with consequences of my actions. I hate it when people say that music is to blame, but there is at least some element of truth there.

reply to post by Gibonz


I was acquaintances with a few guys from LA. I remember them telling me that when Boyz N The Hood came out they were ecstatic. They felt like somebody was finally putting their reality on the big screen. There were a lot of movies coming out at the time reflecting the struggle of inner city life and the intense feelings of the black community. You also had Panther, Higher Learning, Dead Presidents, Malcom X, and Jungle Fever coming out at that same time.

If anything I would say it was the emergence of movies with a black voice as a mainstream force.

reply to post by holywar666


He has also used reverse speaking in "My name is"...(a method made popular by Aleister Crowley)



I know, it could also be interpreted as an artistic use of words.....anyways, just wanna say that

Yeah I don't know, I would say we're currently in a golden age of hip hop, it's just you have to dig deep to find it. Here's some of my favs at the moment.













If you listen to those tracks it would explain why Im a member of ATS, I Love Hip Hop!
But Also Punk, Reggae, Jazz, Rock, Metal, Speedcore, Breakcore, Jungle and Funk. Just not Popular music of any kind.

Peace

The thing is , there are far more hiphop artists with positive messages than there are those with negative derogatory messages , they just arent mainstream.

You dont hear them on the radio and you dont see them on tv, and thats because "the man " knows that the music and especially hiphop has the power to bring people together and to make things better.
As it does throughout the world , you only have to look at the Bboy scene and hiphop culture to see that!
Its still as alive and underground as it ever has been . Once the media has taken its fill chewed it up and spat it out , hiphop will still be there.

One album I can refer you to , a satire on gun violence Masta Ace - Slaughtahouse

1. Crack and other highly enforced drugs filled the prisons.

2. By 1991, gangster rap was already selling huge and N.W.A. was actually breaking up.

3. By 1994, rap had returned to a more socially conscious and/or socially reflective message.

4. This article is fan fiction.

I have said this time and time again. I seen this with my own eyes; the change that happened in hip-hop and how it was hijacked. It went from poetic expression of hardship spoken from the voiceless, to romanticized thuggery wrapped in materialistic excess which objectified women with misogynist imagedry and lyrics.

The lyrical content is watered and dumbed down further every year and the culture, once diverse and many, has become a type of monoculture like the rest of our society. Who benefits from the transformation? Record executives and the artists willing to sell their integrity and uniqueness for the chance at stardom and prestige. Who loses? Everyone else would are robbed of truly good music with meaning and substance. And the community, particularly the urbanized youth, that are impressionable and swayed with false images of super alpha male fantasy (in rented cars and jewelry for the video).

Heroes that are empty of any values/virtues and only promote damaging perspectives and action. Poison is what hip hop is today.

Weren't white suburban adolescent males the primary buyers of rap during this time period. It would seem to me that if white kids were buying the music, their tastes would also influence which albums and artists sell best. Perhaps white teenagers didn't want to hear about knowledge, self-empowerment, and overcoming oppression, concepts to which they couldn't truly relate (unless it's "Eff The Police"), they wanted to live vicariously through gangster rap so that they might feel tougher, scarier, and more powerful than they really were. Is it possible that underlying stereotypes, fears, and desires were also a cause of the demise of thoughtful,empowering, peaceful, positive rap? I don't doubt that at the highest levels, hip-hop was steered away from positive messages for nefarious purposes by greedy executives looking to capitalize, regardless of the social cost, but prison industrial complex? Maybe, but it seems like a bad business model to incarcerate $hitloads of your customers. I guess they would be profiting whether the customer was in prison or out. You have to give to these evil bastards, they are clever.

Originally posted by holywar666
Gangsta Rap was a conspiracy created by the Elites. It started on the West Coast and eventually helped charge the 1992 L.A Riots. When Tupac was asked about the riots he said "Hate to say i told you so, but i told you so."

Tupac getting shot only furthered the conspiracy and now he is a "legend" along with other dead rappers. Rap is a festering disease that spread fast and rapidly, it boosted crime, degraded women, and turned young black males against each other over material objects like money and jewels. Unfortunately this leaked into the white communities with help from Elites like "Eminem", thus creating the same effect on white people and other non-black cultures.

Music is their secret weapon, dont be fooled into thinking it just started with rap.

Music is not there only weapon though. Ignorance, disinformation and conformity run a close second!
I don't know if this story is true for sure but from what i know about the privately owned prison system
It sure as hell could be! For the profits are staggering not only to house, guard and feed the inmates but
the innovative technologies such as non-leathal weapons and smart prisons is a booming industry! Also if we look at America, a land of supposed freedom, one would think that we would have the lowest prison population
in existance but in reality we house more people in cages then any other nation! Though most claim its our
easy access to guns which i totally disagree with! When will we see the reality of living free is just an illusion!

read later

It's easy to believe when you look at how hiphop changed from PE to NWA and all the acts in between. I don't think it's as simplistic as hiphop=full jails, but, as part of an overall plan to use all forms of media to control the populace, it makes sense. TPTB does use these kinds of tactics. and(although I can't prove it to you here) there are other forces working against this manipulation.

Great thread ! Very interesting read aswell.

Reminds me of a series that was on ( don't know if it still is ) on YouTube called.. errm.. Music Industry Exposed ?
Yeah something like that But I digress, insightful thread.

reply to post by holywar666


1. Proof, his best friend, gets shot and killed outside a nightclub in the music video "Like Toy Soldiers" which came out in 2004. In 2006, Proof get shot and killed outside a night club.

Yes this one has boggled me for a long time, but as for the rest.... Lets just say im all for a good conspiracy but not much of the rest of your post makes sense to me.

If you want to find a conspiracy you will, but seriously - candy...?

Originally posted by Dwel13R
I was JUST talking to my kids the other day about 'old school' rap. And to quote myself "not like the garbage they make now--a-days" This seems authentic, as it appears to be the way things have actually gone.

Thx OP

But that's a generation thing isn't it? If you grew up really liking the early Beatles stuff, you may have been against their later stuff or maybe that being released by the Doors or the Velvet Underground. Was there then an 'elite' move to get people to take drugs in the mid to late 60's? What about men wearing make up in the early glam 70's?

Personally I don't think so. Hip hop is a music that went through a level of evolution and some aspects moved to what compared to rock music could be classed as punk, but taking it a stage further in the violent aspect. Thing is, sooner or later you run out of taboos don't you.

Wow just finished reading the article and I am speechless. I know I'm going to spread this and hopefully people wll put two and two together.

As a long-time rap music fan, from the days of "the message" (by Grandmaster Flash), I do not believe this article, because, in 1991, gangsta rap was already established in LA.

Wikipedia confirms it:

The genre was pioneered in the mid-1980s by rappers such as Schoolly D and Ice-T, and was popularized in the later part of the 1980s by groups like N.W.A.

Hip Hop is very base music. The lyrics are no better. It's like the difference between a cave man and modern homo Sapiens. It's violent, graphic, and emotionally charged to bring out the neanderthal in you. I never liked it, nor did I ever find it very appealing. It fits in the same category as acid rock, heavy metal, etc.

Originally posted by masterp
As a long-time rap music fan, from the days of "the message" (by Grandmaster Flash), I do not believe this article, because, in 1991, gangsta rap was already established in LA.

Wikipedia confirms it:

The genre was pioneered in the mid-1980s by rappers such as Schoolly D and Ice-T, and was popularized in the later part of the 1980s by groups like N.W.A.

Rap's uglier side didn't start with gangsta rap, it started a bit before then but it wasn't as pronounced. West coast rap was pushed hard in the early 90's but I am sure some groups or individual artists pushed this lifestyle beforehand. But it didn't get the exposure nor did other groups that didn't push that message get blacklisted until after 1991.

That's like saying white rap didn't exist before eminiem or even vanilla ice, but it did they just weren't as popular.
Long time rap fan here too