Workplace Bullying...

reply to post by strangedays


Again . . . if the employer were doing their job, this would stop.

As an aside, many employers don't realize that if a worker feels threatened or uncomfortable, they're a lot less productive than one who is at ease in their place of employment. Employers who fail to act are actually working against their own productivity agenda.

In my experience, many managers are either unaware of their responsibility in this regard or don't have a set big and hairy enough to properly deal with these types of situations.

Again, it points back to the employer . . . failure to train an failure to adequately hire competent personnel.

In Ontario, the Occupational Health and Safety Act, two things would apply . . . the employer is required by law to have 'competent' supervisors, with a mandated competencies to include being knowledge and application of the Occupational Health and Safety Act and able to identify and eliminate workplace hazards.

Further, the employer is legally responsible for taking all precautions reasonable in the circumstance to protect the health and safety of all workers.

Clearly, having a nutless, lazy and untrained person in a position of authority points back to a failure of due diligence and places the employer in a position of grave liability for failure to provide a healthy and safe workplace.

I think the thing that shocked me the most was how so many people saw what was happening, but stood by and simply watched, but failed to step in. I can understand they didn't wish it to escalate, but I think more to the point they were actually afraid of becoming targets themselves.

I was training a new person (after this first person moved on to the different position) when the stare-down and full frontal confrontational assault took place. The new trainee sat there with her mouth hanging open, and when the attacker walked off, they turned to me as I was called back for the closed door meeting and said, "If you need to come with you, I will tell them what I just saw. I can't believe what I just saw happen!"

I went to two different shift supervisors before the third one, when we had the closed door meeting. The third one had no idea what had been happening in the preceeding 3 weeks, but totally failed to believe a 10 year tenured employee, even with witnesses. I told her that the new person I was training (when this first person moved to the different position) had sat and witnessed the entire thing was more than willing to come to talk to her.

I told the new trainee no, it was only their second night on the job. I did not want them to get involved, because they were being trained for the new area as well, and would have to work with this other confrontational person. I feared if she went to the supervisor as a witness for me, this would only make them a target once I was out of the picture.

I was in the closed door meeting, and had no qualms about calling this person out. They made unsubstantiated claims that there were "multiple complaints about you, so there, I just put that out on the table!" The supervisor did say that it was improper to make statements like that and to spread rumors that were unfounded. (Like rumors are ever founded?)

From that point on, I sat back in silence, realizing I was not going to win this, and realized my next step would most likely be an attorney.

I also did a lot of research on workplace bullying online, and that was how I came to know what it even was. I didn't know there were laws against it, but I knew I would not allow someone to defame and slander my good name and reputation in the workplace. Since this person spoke of me like this in the meeting in front of the supervisor, the reason I went silent was to allow them to open mouth and insert their foot, which they did, nicely.

I have an excellent reputation in my workplace, all of my reviews are peer reviews, so if there had been any complaints about at all, it would have been written on the peer reviews. Instead, I always get the higest raises, the highest praise, and I am told I am a valuable and needed employee. I take great pride in my work.

What bothered me the most, and took the most time for me to get over was the fact that I have *never* had something like this happen. Never had a problem training someone, and certainly never had someone make such statements about me that were not just unfounded but straight up lies. As it did turn out, this person lied totally about their 20 years of experience, and the person that hired them totally failed in reference checking.

When you threaten my job, my livelyhood, and my reputation, it's time for an attorney. When no one will defend you, you need someone that will.

As I said, no one stepped in to defend me, but I can understand they have to look out for their own positions in life. However, this does not keep me from being disappointed in them. I would not be so sure I would sit idly by and watch this happen to someone else.

I have to agree with the OP here...bullying is a massive and almost accepted part of the corporate world now, and it's getting much worse very quickly. I'm going through a similar situation myself, having been bullied by my line manager almost to the point of a nervous breakdown last year, and the repercussions of those events are still being dealt with today. I can't talk for every company and every set of experiences, but I know from my own experience that bullying is just about the regulation MO for management in many many companies, and if you try to blow the whistle at anything but the highest level, you will be ignored, ridiculed, harrassed out of your job as soon as they can manage it.

I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it, short of long detailed letters to chief executives and posting videos on YouTube, as much to embarrass them as anything else. Company procedures, trade union involvement, and even legal action just dont work, at least not quickly enough, and anyone short of the guy at the top is going to have another agenda. The brutal truth is that we are cannon fodder...they simple don't care about employee welfare, just how much work they can get out of us, and how little they can get away with paying us. That's the bare truth of it, no matter how much corporate spin doctors will dress it up otherwise. Anyone who believes that the company they work for genuinely care for their happiness is perhaps a little delusional, at best, or maybe is lucky enough to work for the rare employer who has their staff interests at heart, as well as their profits.

Sadly, I'm not an isolated case. I have witnessed bullying in the company, by many individuals, on many occasions, and very often in public. I've taken a stand on it, which has made my life hell, and I can completely understand why another person might think that walking away and getting their life back is the easier and quicker option. I sometimes wish I had! The current business climate is so harsh, and profits so squeezed in many sectors, that pressure seems to accumulate at the bottom of the structure...the boots on the ground if you like...simply so that middle and senior management can show that they have done their job. It becomes a tick box excercise of counselling, disciplinaries, harrassment, discussions, threats...anything at all that will move the blame for poor performance away from them.

So ....what to do about it..? I feel there are two options that will help me retain some kind of sanity and quality of life. Firstly, from a moral point of view, I MUST challenge them, the managers, the company, the chief executive, the MD, and at least let them know what goes on in their business. I have to make myself the most annoying thorn in their sides, if legal action wont work (more of this later) just to wake them up, and hopefully find some kind of understanding. Hopefully the main culprits will be challenged at some point in this process. I live in hope! Secondly...I have to get out of the corporate world. It's not healthy and getting sicker by the moment, dumbing down it's staff with ludicrous training sessions that would insult 4 year olds, and giving no credit for intelligence, initiative, diplomacy, people skills, or any of the other traits I would have hoped an employer would find valuable. Maybe the corporate world and it's security (if you play their game) is attractive to a lot of people. I don't have children so I suspect I would feel differently if I did, and had more than just me to feeed and keep warm. For me, and many many other people I've found on my internet trawls for information, it's just not healthy, so I have to get out and create my own living.

This is a very interesting site I found about the prevalence of psychopaths in business...lots of information and ideas on how to tackle the issues, if you feel you want to, or need to. At the very least, it will help you understand that you are not alone.

Understanding psychopaths in the workplace

I hope my little rant has maybe been helpful to someone somewhere. If you are reading this and are in the enviable position of having a decent employer to work for, I envy you, and please don't dismiss what we say here as weak minded, childish whining....it's not. This is a serious and growing problem, and will only get worse if not tackled. However, calling out the bullies, which I have done on many occasions, is almost as hard as putting up with their behaviour in the first place...usually it results in very underhand reactions, and aggressive defence of their position, often with back up from their cronies. This cronyism is also a major factor in maintaining the power play. Often there is a group of people with common interests or background who effectively form a management gang, making any challenge practically impossible.

Hmmm...letter to Chief Exec next...

reply to post by boncho

I've had many a people upset at me in my life, but I never felt like I was bullied, and I always resolved it with communication. It just doesn't make sense to me how it can escalate to something unmanageable.

Then you never have met someone like the person I had this run-in with. Every attempt at communication with them, even if they approached ME, was turned into a confrontation where it was said *loudly*, "You just need to, you know, back off and quit getting all up in my bidness!" "You are nosey!" "Why you think you have the right to know what I am doing and why? If you have questions, then you need to talk to your manager!" "I think you just need to sit down and SHUT UP!"

This was after they came to ME and asked for a piece of gum, and I simply asked, "So what happened? I thought you wanted to come back and train with me?"

Nosey? Intrusive? After the proclomations, "You are a great trainer! I am going to ask my manager to schedule me with you all next month so I can train with no one but you!"

Really? I was asking what seemed to be an innocent and logical question, making friendly conversation with someone that had portrayed themselves as somewhat open to conversation the night before.

And *any* time *any* friendly and innocent conversation took place, it was at their inititative, and this is always how it was turned around on me, turned into a loud spectacle, with me sitting there with my mouth hanging open. If I even *tried* to defend myself, I was waived off and called a liar, stupid, and many other things as they walked away hurling insults.

Really?

No, some people come predetermined to make issues and no attempts to be professional or courteous work. They have an agenda, and if you are in the way, they will have zero compunctions about mowing you over and taking you out in the process.

Funny this is a topic as I just had my own experience dealing with a workplace bully.

In my case, it was the owners son. This guy was rude, obnoxious, mean, violent, mouthy and just an all around asshole. He would scream at people, belittle people, pressure other employees into staying on the sidelines. He was especially bad toward women. It was a horrible work environment.

He had been fired numerous times, but since he was the owners son, he would just show back up a few days later like nothing happened.

I finally had enough one day and got all the employees together. I told them that they would be protected if we all stood together and said we are not going to work with him anymore and it was going to be him or us. Man, did it get ugly for a few weeks. But, because we all stood as one, we couldn't all be fired without jeopardizing the business itself, the owner had to back off and he was fired.

This was back at christmas time, and I can not believe the difference in work attitude and atmosphere!

I would do it again in a heartbeat if I had to.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by strangedays
If you hadn't noticed, I never made any physical threats of violence towards you. (Yet, you just did to me?) But your reaction in this thread reaffirms my position that perhaps your experiences of being "bullied" is not solely the fault of others.

Destrung would be synonymous with, relaxing, taking a deep breath. I did not mean it any other way.

And this all goes back to my original stance on the issue, I think people are lacking in communication or unaware of their own actions, which leads to scenarios where they feel like they are being bullied or singled out.

I've had many a people upset at me in my life, but I never felt like I was bullied, and I always resolved it with communication. It just doesn't make sense to me how it can escalate to something unmanageable.

edit on 26-4-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

LOL @ you trying to swing it now that I threatened you.

Anyways, to call it all miscommunication lol? I dont think so. Stop trying to curb the truth. If its miscommunication why do we have the scenarios described in this thread? And in the one posters situation, she was just told there was nothing they could do. Failure to address a reported problem (properly-asking about it then saying you can do nothing just wasted the money thats allocated for the examination of it) by the company.

What about:
-the conscious groups that create murderers like Jared Loughner. All the cons that were placed with him at PIMA community college and played with his mind, which resulted in his actions. Why are these active shooter situations becoming all the more common?

-mass unemployment despite contrary media claims

I can go on and on. But we all know that the cons throw excuses out (like you are doing) to justify the negative behaviors they regularly demonstrate. I believe they will be held accountable. You do not (as referenced by you a few posts back). I tell people like that to stay on it if you truly believe that. Try to do everything you can to be as negative, manipulating, backstabbing, extorting, etc as you can. Really go for it. Dig the hole deeper lol.

Originally posted by GoalPoster
reply to post by strangedays

 

Again . . . if the employer were doing their job, this would stop.

As an aside, many employers don't realize that if a worker feels threatened or uncomfortable, they're a lot less productive than one who is at ease in their place of employment. Employers who fail to act are actually working against their own productivity agenda.

In my experience, many managers are either unaware of their responsibility in this regard or don't have a set big and hairy enough to properly deal with these types of situations.

Again, it points back to the employer . . . failure to train an failure to adequately hire competent personnel.

In Ontario, the Occupational Health and Safety Act, two things would apply . . . the employer is required by law to have 'competent' supervisors, with a mandated competencies to include being knowledge and application of the Occupational Health and Safety Act and able to identify and eliminate workplace hazards.

Further, the employer is legally responsible for taking all precautions reasonable in the circumstance to protect the health and safety of all workers.

Clearly, having a nutless, lazy and untrained person in a position of authority points back to a failure of due diligence and places the employer in a position of grave liability for failure to provide a healthy and safe workplace.

edit on 26-4-2012 by GoalPoster because: (no reason given)

I agree with you, however it still fails to address the problem, which is why we are in the mess we are in and as far as this even being a topic of interest on a messageboard somewhere off in cyberspace.

Too many gray areas and loopholes and conscious people are taking advantage, and changing their perspective to a more negative polarity to justify what they are doing. And in the end it will get them.

Originally posted by Libertygal
I think the thing that shocked me the most was how so many people saw what was happening, but stood by and simply watched, but failed to step in. I can understand they didn't wish it to escalate, but I think more to the point they were actually afraid of becoming targets themselves.

I

Sorry I will try to refrain from multiposting (as this thread's subject I am passionate about) but you make some really good points. Stars.

The system is self defeating and its just as the Bible says: no one will be able resist the mark of the beast, eventually. Although we are talking business its funny how it all ties into religion.

reply to post by strangedays

And in the one posters situation, she was just told there was nothing they could do. Failure to address a reported problem (properly-asking about it then saying you can do nothing just wasted the money thats allocated for the examination of it) by the company.

Excatly, and not to mention the money that had already been spent in the inept hiring and month and a half training of this individual before they got fired. That should have all come into focus, as they lied on their application, refernces were not checked thoroughly, and it was a huge waste of time and money in so many directions.

I was asked by the managers assistant in private email how the person was working out, and I gave fair warining I felt they lacked the skills for the job. If I told you the job position, you would be *terrified*, too, but that's a whole other story.

The other part is, what *IF* I had been backed into a corner and felt the need to get an attorney? If this had continued unabated, I would have had multiple witnesses, 3 supervisors that had been approached, a managers' assistant that had been warned, and all in all, it would have been really ugly.

To this very day, now some 4 months after the fact, I am still fearful of retribution, I am still wary of the multiple hang-up calls in the workplace. I still check to see if I am followed home when I leave work, and I was a few times, (yes I have pics to prove it, but again, thats another story and best saved for the future if anything untowards happens). I still look out for them in the public access places where I work. I still watch for them around my home.

I should not have to live in fear like this, this is *their fault*.

reply to post by Libertygal

I think the thing that shocked me the most was how so many people saw what was happening, but stood by and simply watched, but failed to step in.

If you were asked to train the person that means you were given a position of authority by whoever is above you. You should have been communicating with them and they also should have been keeping tabs on your progress.

Judging by how the situation unfolded, it seems you were not a key candidate for the training position. Or there needs to be a better structure in place where the trainer is communicating with whoever is in charge of the new employees.

In your case, if your supervisors/managers are not supporting you in the training duties, you should not be involved in them. Simple as that.

I can understand they didn't wish it to escalate, but I think more to the point they were actually afraid of becoming targets themselves.

Who? Other workers? They are not in the position to make any calls on the matter, they are there to focus on their own tasks.

The new trainee sat there with her mouth hanging open, and when the attacker walked off, they turned to me as I was called back for the closed door meeting and said, "If you need to come with you, I will tell them what I just saw. I can't believe what I just saw happen!"

Since it seems like there was no discussion among you and your manager during the training period, it would have made sense to bring the person in and have them speak in the meeting. It had escalated to that point, it shouldn't have, but at least that would have given the people above you a better understanding of the situation.

I feared if she went to the supervisor as a witness for me, this would only make them a target once I was out of the picture.

Yet you claim the person in question is a bully and caused all these issues, and you would still have them at your workplace "terrorizing" other people....

I knew I would not allow someone to defame and slander my good name and reputation in the workplace.

How exactly were you defamed and slandered?

Sorry, there are a lot of holes in your story. It doesn't make sense.

reply to post by strangedaysStop trying to curb the truth. If its miscommunication why do we have the scenarios described in this thread?


I imagine because of miscommunication....

Well good luck. Heres to finding a solution where you dont have to feel that pressure (take up Jujitsu lol!). I sincerely feel for you.

Not knocking you at all, but for my own thoughts, I always wonder if people are just playing the + side of arguments, with no real regard or care one way or another of how stuff ends up heh. It makes it harder to take compliments too. You never know who is being real.

EDIT: Is there an ignore option? I need it for this bonzo guy. He keep arguing retarded logic. It hurts my head to even read what he writes.

reply to post by strangedays

EDIT: Is there an ignore option? I need it for this bonzo guy. He keep arguing retarded logic. It hurts my head to even read what he writes.

Ah jeez, look at the verbal slurs, I feel so bullied. /sarcasm

When I worked at McDonalds my boss shouted at me for about 5 minutes before firing me, just because I had an uncontrollable sneeze which projected my chewing tobacco all over the preparation counter. That's the problem with a boss being a workplace bully, there's really nothing you can do about it. You can do something about it when it's a coworker though.

Originally posted by Xaphan
When I worked at McDonalds my boss shouted at me for about 5 minutes before firing me, just because I had an uncontrollable sneeze which projected my chewing tobacco all over the preparation counter. That's the problem with a boss being a workplace bully, there's really nothing you can do about it. You can do something about it when it's a coworker though.

Please tell me this one's a joke.

o.0

I can't even tell anymore in this thread....

Originally posted by boncho

If you were asked to train the person that means you were given a position of authority

I was an equal, not an authority.

As I posted in my previous messages, I was sent an email asking about their progress, to which I replied I felt there were problems. So tabs were kept on the progress. I also had discussions, before the final event, with two supervisors as the situation escalated, as I stated in my previous messages.

Judging by how the situation unfolded, it seems you were not a key candidate for the training position. Or there needs to be a better structure in place where the trainer is communicating with whoever is in charge of the new employees.

I agree with the latter part. Very little attention was given to the training process. In fact, on one of the aptitude tests given to the trainee, they asked several people for answers to the questions, and this was also reported. It was stated that since we were training this person for another manager, there was nothing we could do but to let them find out on their own. My supervisors and my manager had all said there was nothing they could do, as they did not hire the person, they were simply providing me for the training process. I disagreed, hence, why I felt I may need an attorney, as we were all part of the same system of employ. My manager could and should have gone directly to their hiring manager.

In your case, if your supervisors/managers are not supporting you in the training duties, you should not be involved in them. Simple as that.

I agree, and I did tell the supervisor I refused to work with this person again during the closed door meeting. I was only scheduled to work in their presence, no longer as trainer, 3 more days before they moved to their new area, so I later contacted the supervisor and told them I felt I could be the bigger person, as I had been all along, and just deal with it. It was at this point I decided it might be a good idea to carry a tape recorder. This became a non-issue, as when I returned for the next 3 day period (I work 12 hours, 3 on, 4 off), the person was moved to the new area and I no longer had to deal with them in my area. This is when it was stated, "Let them find out how she is, her true colors will come out. She is their problem now."

Who? Other workers? They are not in the position to make any calls on the matter, they are there to focus on their own tasks.

I agree and said as much. I also understand them not wanting to risk their own positions.

Since it seems like there was no discussion among you and your manager during the training period, it would have made sense to bring the person in and have them speak in the meeting. It had escalated to that point, it shouldn't have, but at least that would have given the people above you a better understanding of the situation.

This is why, during the closed door meeting, after the confrontational person left, I explained that there had been multiple witnesses to the attacks. I asked her to approach any or all of them for proof that I was indeed telling the truth. She seemd non-committal, and it was after this event that I contacted my manager when I got home. I was told by the supervisor to not talk to anyone, but I decided that was not good policy and went to my manager anyway. This is when I was again told, "She will be their problem soon enough, there is nothing I can really do."

My manager reassured me that she knew it wasn't an issue with me, as she had heard this was a problem from the beginning. At that point, that was all I cared about. The supervisor from this point, was nothing more than a "witness", had it escalated and I got an attorney.

Yet you claim the person in question is a bully and caused all these issues, and you would still have them at your workplace "terrorizing" other people....

Which she did, when she was moved to the new area. Hence, why she was fired.

How exactly were you defamed and slandered?

Because she was going through my area and saying things about me to anyone that would listen that were untrue. She was making public spectacles as I outlined in my previous messages, proclaiming falsehoods and lies as she walked away from me, speaking loudly so others heard *her*. In the closed door meeting, she said that there were "many complaints about you..." as I put in my previous post. All lies, and all things that could have threatened my job.

dictionary.reference.com...

Sorry, there are a lot of holes in your story. It doesn't make sense

How exactly? Either you didn't read, or you seem to be having trouble understanding. Perhaps you just made up your mind it couldn't happen.

I remember when I was about 17/18 years old and working in a factory making bra's and knickers for major retail chain stores. We had a Senior Supervisor, a middle-aged spinster woman who was a sour-faced, bad-tempered old cow and used to speak to many production operatives like they were something nasty she'd stepped in. She was a sour-faced bully who made employees nervous when she was around them, and she knew it. I had no respect for her whatsoever.

One day she was attempting to humiliate me by shouting and barking orders at me in front of the whole shop floor. So I turned the tables and shouted back, and suggested it is SHE who had the 'attitude' and should change it, I asked her who does she think she is that she has to humiliate people in front of others. She promptly marched into the office and reported me to the manager, and I was called to his office for a 'dressing down' and a possible disciplinary action.

I informed the manager that I merely responded in the same way as I was addressed, and had the supervisor spoke to me properly then I would have responded in a likewise manner. If I am to receive a disciplinary action then so should the supervisor because she instigated the whole episode.

The manager agreed with me, and it was SHE who ended up with a dressing-down. I went back to work with a satisfied smirk on my face

Everyone has a right to be treated with some respect in the workplace, make sure you stand up for yourself, and also for others if they don't have the confidence to do it themselves.

reply to post by strangedays


i am a retired professional mixed Martial artist and amateur boxer. But violence will only make things work. And to the above poster saying I suck at my job. I think you seriously lack context to your arguement and you are making a bold claim.

reply to post by caitlinfae


I agree with you. There really is nothing you can do. It's kind of sickening that people take advantage of the status of the current job market in this fashion. I am on my way to work right now, my goal today is not to quit.

You can never really escape high school...

Of course there is workplace bullying. We are a culture of bullying. Ever notice how when there is some great injustice in the world, the internet coalesces to - wait for it - bully the bully?